Idle thoughts - The "Gronk" edition

[Patriot Missile]

One of those games you save on dvr for years.

Gronks 69 yards on that last drive was monumental. I say this with no fan favortism. He is the best Tight End I've ever seen play this game. The most complete dominant package that has been handicapped by injuries and refs feeling sorry for the smaller dbs and the slower lbs with swallowed whistles. His separation in this game was just superb. If he was a player of another team I'd probably still admire his skills. Glad he is ours.

As bad as many thought the defense played, and there was a few things that stood out like the 3rd down %. They still only gave up 24 points to one of the best offenses in football and came through at the end with a big stop after the JJSS miraculous slant.

It would be nice to have a healthy LB squad and Van Noy is going to be a welcome addition once he returns. They need all the help they can get at this point. Too many injuries across the board on both sides as they are going to have to grind it out the rest of the way with what they have and the coaches are going to have to pull out some solid game plans.

As mentioned the tempo was fast on both sides. So fast that we really didn't get to see a lot of replays. I was pretty sure Cooks was out of bounds on the 30+ yard catch but would of liked to see close up footage of that nontheless.

Lot of game film for the coaches to go through against this team. I'm just glad there is a good chance if they see this team again it will be at The Razor.

And yes, the Miami game should serve as a reminder for these next two games to put it all out there.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Yeah, Dog, it is just incredibly impressive to have a 17 yard per catch number, ESPECIALLY as a TE, and one who actually blocks for a living as well.

I remember the thing that always impressed me the most about Stanley Morgan was the fact the guy averaged 20 ypc..... not just for one year or a couple of selected years, but for his CAREER!!!!! It still impresses the hell out of me.

Oh, one of my favorites of all time. I've daydreamed of altering the timeline and putting him in todays game. He is the type of player that would excel in any era. Especially if he had the coaching, nutrition and conditioning of todays athlete as well as the goat Qb.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

I wish cooks was like edelman but he's not. He has a hard time with press coverage. He's not a complete wr. When he plays well our offense looks a lot better. Really hope hogan comes back and he plays well.

 

[PatsFan2]

I wish cooks was like edelman but he's not. He has a hard time with press coverage. He's not a complete wr. When he plays well our offense looks a lot better. Really hope hogan comes back and he plays well.

You are preaching to the Choir regarding Cooks...yes I too hope Hoogie uses this time to get well. We would all feel a lot better when he's right.

 

[New England Pride]

I wish cooks was like edelman but he's not. He has a hard time with press coverage. He's not a complete wr. When he plays well our offense looks a lot better. Really hope hogan comes back and he plays well.

Put a body on Cooks and hes done. Nice player but not the guy I thought he was.

 

[slam]

Before this game on one of these threads, I said if all you knew about Team A and Team B is that Team A is coached by Belichick and Team B is coached by Mike Tomlin, it'd be worth 7 points in point spread. In this game coaching was worth exactly 7 points. To lay it all out:

1. Jesse James lunges for the end zone before securing the ball. According to Mike Lombardi on the GM Street podcast Bill will bench players who abandon ball security to lunge for the goal line/first down lines. Apparently Tomlin doesn't teach that. 7 points off the board.
   
2. Restarting on 2nd and 10, Ben completes a two yard pass that is tackled inbounds. An incomplete pass would have been preferable to that completion as it hurried the next play, but Ben doesn't have the game awareness to throw the ball away and/or the OC messes up in calling a play in which a 2 yard inbound gain is an option.
3. A second play on third down is not called in advance, and Haley apparently forces Ben to improvise a play rather than to clock the ball. Only two Steelers are actually trying to run a play on that fateful interception, whereas most (though not all) of the Patriots are playing as usual, including would-be goats from the long completion Jordan Richards and Eric Rowe. Also the route is a slant going directly into four Patriot defenders rather than a fade in which only one Pats defender would be involved in the catch. Ben doesn't have the intelligence to realize the pass has no chance and to throw it away to preserve the field goal attempt. The pass is thrown high and is thus deflectable whereas a low pass has a lower chance of interception. All coaching points in the Patriots favor.
   
4. Upon making the interception, Duron Harmon has the game awareness to know that he should immediately take a knee and not risk a fumble which could give the Steelers another chance. We've seen that happen before, so it's not a small point.

We all know Brady's greatness but if somehow he were forced to play under Tomlin, it might be something like the Barry Switzer era of the Cowboys in which the QB knew more about winning football than the coach and the team suffered because of it. This was a better coaching outing than most for Tomlin vs. the Pats as they had a good gameplan and switched up the defense for once. But the lack of production in the 2nd half and coaching miscues in that last minute showed the difference in quality between the coaching of the two teams.

 

[luuked]

Cooks is a downfield threat more than a possession guy. Lloyd nor anyone else had as many big plays downfield with the Patriots since Randy Moss.

I'm hearing that very mediocre WRs around the league are going to make $10m next year, guys like Jordan Matthews. It's going to take more to retain Cooks.

And, if you get rid of him? With him being so young? He's 24?

That's just a sign of bad roster management (you gave up a first rounder).

I disagree. It is a sign of bad roster management if you hang on to players because were they were drafted or because you gave up a lot for them if they are clearly not valuable enough for one of the 53 roster spots.

It is all about the projected role relative to his cap hit.

And the situation reminds me a bit of Chandler Jones in the sense that Cooks' role so far (deep routes, comebacks mostly) is value at this current (and next year's) numbers the same way that Chandler Jones was incredible value on his rookie contract.

However, once we get to that second contract when his cap hit is going to make a big jump the question becomes whether the very same contribution is still valuable to the team relative to that cap hit. I am not so sure.

But then again I hope that he will be used more diversely next year (and maybe already in the playoffs).

 

[upstater1]

I disagree. It is a sign of bad roster management if you hang on to players because were they were drafted or because you gave up a lot for them if they are clearly not valuable enough for one of the 53 roster spots.

It is all about the projected role relative to his cap hit.

And the situation reminds me a bit of Chandler Jones in the sense that Cooks' role so far (deep routes, comebacks mostly) is value at this current (and next year's) numbers the same way that Chandler Jones was incredible value on his rookie contract.

However, once we get to that second contract when his cap hit is going to make a big jump the question becomes whether the very same contribution is still valuable to the team relative to that cap hit. I am not so sure.

But then again I hope that he will be used more diversely next year (and maybe already in the playoffs).

He's 24 years old!!!

Belichick knew he was coming up for a contract when he traded for him. It is mismanagement in that sense. The fact that he was up for a big contract was known and part of the calculation to give up a #1.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Cooks is a downfield threat more than a possession guy. Lloyd nor anyone else had as many big plays downfield with the Patriots since Randy Moss.

I'm hearing that very mediocre WRs around the league are going to make $10m next year, guys like Jordan Matthews. It's going to take more to retain Cooks.

And, if you get rid of him? With him being so young? He's 24?

That's just a sign of bad roster management (you gave up a first rounder).

If a gm pays Matthews 10 mil then he should be fired. Maybe sammy watkins based on his name but that's another overrated guy and very inconsistent.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Just did a rewatch. That gutzy decision by Patricia to blitz on the Bey catch really paid off forcing Ben to throw outside to Bey for Butler to make an incredible tackle to keep him in bounds with the clock running.

 

[luuked]

He's 24 years old!!!

Belichick knew he was coming up for a contract when he traded for him. It is mismanagement in that sense. The fact that he was up for a big contract was known and part of the calculation to give up a #1.

I dont get your obsession with his age. What is the difference whether he is 24, 26 or 28 ?

Also I disagree that the big contract was a consideration. They essentially exchanged pick #32 for 2 years of a known commodity at price control instead of 4-5 years of a player you can only project at a notoriously difficult position to draft for in NE.

There is no reason why we wouldnt move on if he wants too much money and just collect our potential 3rd round comp pick. This would made the entire trade ~ 60 spots of draft position for 2 years of essentially guaranteed production.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Actually, MYC, I was just getting ready to post something on this topic after checking some of the highlights this morning. In my opinion there were 2 main culprits on this play, NEITHER is Eric Rowe.

#1 is Matt Patricia. It was kind of ironic that I blasted the Titan DC his calls on JG's game winning drive with a minute left in the game, and then lauding the way the Pats usually play the same situation. USUALLY is the key word here.

One THIS play, however, Matt had the team in man to man instead of the usual 5 man under shell that would have contained a short completion like the one to a 5-10 yd gain and force a TO. If you look at the play design, Rowe had little chance to stop the reception of a good pass, and iit was a perfect pass hitting Shuster in stride (unfortunately) and when Shuster pulled away from Rowe, and with everyone's back turned to the play, there was no one there to attack him until he got to about 45 of the Pats.

Then came culprit #2 - Jordan Richards, who had a clear shot had Shuster in what SHOULD have been an easy side line tackle, and for some reason just flat out missed. Really no excuse for that play.

Of course there were other less impactful culprits who could have done better jobs, as in most plays, but those 2 were (IMHO) the 2 biggest on that play

Thanks Ken!

Ian provided a nice breakdown of what happened, and I think your insights on why that happened, - thanks to those culprits , provided an excellent perspective of that one play that took the air out of all those Patsfans watching it. Glad we got it back with a yell after 2 minutes.

Five Takeaways From The Patriots Win Over Pittsburgh - PatsFans.com

 

[upstater1]

If a gm pays Matthews 10 mil then he should be fired. Maybe sammy watkins based on his name but that's another overrated guy and very inconsistent.

Just wait and see. Bills fans were saying the same about Gilmore. But nobody is firing Belichick.

 

[upstater1]

I dont get your obsession with his age. What is the difference whether he is 24, 26 or 28 ?

Also I disagree that the big contract was a consideration. They essentially exchanged pick #32 for 2 years of a known commodity at price control instead of 4-5 years of a player you can only project at a notoriously difficult position to draft for in NE.

There is no reason why we wouldnt move on if he wants too much money and just collect our potential 3rd round comp pick. This would made the entire trade ~ 60 spots of draft position for 2 years of essentially guaranteed production.

Because 24 is a very young age and layers improve. I can name a dozen Patriots who weren't stars for the Patriots at 24 but became stars later on, guys like McGinest and Faulk, etc.

If you give up 1st rounders so cheaply, you will have a huge talent deficit (which this team already has, by the way).

If I could take Gilmore's salary and spread it to the likes of Cooks and especially Chandler Jones and his 15 sacks!!! I would.

Let's face it, getting rid of Chandler Jones and giving his money to Gilmore was just dumb. And I worship Belichick, but that doesn't mean he didn't make a huge mistake there. I mean, Gilmore + Eric Lee < Chandler Jones + 15 sacks.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Because 24 is a very young age and layers improve. I can name a dozen Patriots who weren't stars for the Patriots at 24 but became stars later on, guys like McGinest and Faulk, etc.

If you give up 1st rounders so cheaply, you will have a huge talent deficit (which this team already has, by the way).

If I could take Gilmore's salary and spread it to the likes of Cooks and especially Chandler Jones and his 15 sacks!!! I would.

Let's face it, getting rid of Chandler Jones and giving his money to Gilmore was just dumb. And I worship Belichick, but that doesn't mean he didn't make a huge mistake there. I mean, Gilmore + Eric Lee < Chandler Jones + 15 sacks.

You know how it is? Mistakes are meant to be made and questioned. However, I don't blame BB for trading Jones after the incident. Not a good sign of things to come and at time he was all rush and losing containment in the run game. He seems to have found a scheme to fit him and I'm glad for the guy.

Just glad Gilmore is so young cuz I still have high hopes for him. Under this coaching staff he is only going to get better and he still has fresh speed and ball skills. The dividends have not been immediate but I feel pretty good about the guy and the direction he is going.

 

[luuked]

If I could take Gilmore's salary and spread it to the likes of Cooks and especially Chandler Jones and his 15 sacks!!! I would.

Thats where I get out of this conversation because I am happy we got rid of Jones and even happier that we got a talented CB like Gilmore this offseason.

 

[NormZauchin]

All of us have mixed emotions about Jimmy's success, but most are aware that nothing much could have been done to keep him here. The ones who are really suffering are the Clevelands of the NFL who have desperately needed a quarterback, yet were too afraid to offer in draft picks what a good QB is worth.

 

[Gumby]

Because 24 is a very young age and layers improve. I can name a dozen Patriots who weren't stars for the Patriots at 24 but became stars later on, guys like McGinest and Faulk, etc.
If you give up 1st rounders so cheaply, you will have a huge talent deficit (which this team already has, by the way). . . .

Let's face it, getting rid of Chandler Jones and giving his money to Gilmore was just dumb. And I worship Belichick, but that doesn't mean he didn't make a huge mistake there. I mean, Gilmore + Eric Lee < Chandler Jones + 15 sacks.

You are doing your math and algebra wrong:

Gilmore + Eric Lee +9 more guys = 11-3 HFA
>>>
Chandler Jones + 15 sack + 10 more guys = 6-8 and " on the rooad to NoWhere"

SYNERGY = the whole is MORE (of LESS in the case of Jones-AZ) than the sum of the parts.

BB judged he was bad for team chem; sayonara baby!!! And me: no issues with him being gone.

 

[PScottman]

you will have a huge talent deficit (which this team already has, by the way).

HUH?

A team with this many star player injuries winning 11 games so far this season has what????

Lemme guess, not enough binkie "name" free agents signed or something similar?

Spend your cap on middle depth approach continues to show high return on investment for the New England Patriots.

 

[upstater1]

You know how it is? Mistakes are meant to be made and questioned. However, I don't blame BB for trading Jones after the incident. Not a good sign of things to come and at time he was all rush and losing containment in the run game. He seems to have found a scheme to fit him and I'm glad for the guy.

Just glad Gilmore is so young cuz I still have high hopes for him. Under this coaching staff he is only going to get better and he still has fresh speed and ball skills. The dividends have not been immediate but I feel pretty good about the guy and the direction he is going.

I was very high on Gilmore but I was distraught by his performance yesterday. Not so much as he got burned, but by the fact that he needs to fight more. If he showed 1/2 the guts and effort that Butler does, he'd help the team a lot.