IR Possibilities

[mgteich]

Reiss reminds us not to forget McClellan as an IR possibility, [along with Slater and Garcia].

We already have Edelman and Rivers.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Reiss reminds us not to forget McClellan as an IR possibility, [along with Slater and Garcia].

We already have Edelman and Rivers.

Didn't Slater return to practice? I understand the other names, but I thought Slater was back. I don't know if they would ask him to practice again if they thought that he would be lost for the year.

 

[mgteich]

Didn't Slater return to practice? I understand the other names, but I thought Slater was back. I don't know if they would ask him to practice again if they thought that he would be lost for the year.

Yes, he returned to practice. The open question is whether he is ready for game competition. Practice can sometimes help with making such a decision.

Personally. I'm OK with Slater missing the first half.

 

[jmt57]

Didn't Slater return to practice? I understand the other names, but I thought Slater was back. I don't know if they would ask him to practice again if they thought that he would be lost for the year.

Agree.

I had Slater penciled in as a possibility for IR a week or two ago, but not now. I'd rather have some more flexibility in the IR-and-return tool if he is close to being ready to go.


Edelman: can go on IR anytime. Perhaps it hasn't happened yet due to some sort of roster bonus in his contract?

Rivers: can go on IR on Sept 2 in conjunction with the 53-man roster cutdown.

McClellin: will need to be on the initial 53-man roster and then be placed on IR, so he can return later this season.

Garcia: same situation as McClellin. Only question would be whether they want to expose another player to a potential waiver claim. Way around that is to cut a vested veteran with the explicit understanding he will be re-signed the next day, whereas non-vested players could be claimed by another team.

One other thing to consider: only two players can return off Injured Reserve to the 53-man roster. If your plan is to bring both McClellin and Garcia back, then no other player that is placed on IR can be brought back later. Fortunately the club does not have to designate him for return, like they did in the past (Visanthe Shiancoe). Bringing Garcia back would not be a sure thing if in the interim the team had another player they wanted to place on IR, and have him return later.


I also saw some writer mention Nate Ebner as a possibility for IR. I know he has missed some recent practices, but was not under the impression it was that bad. Does anybody know how long he has been out? It may have been since the game against the Texans on August 19.

 

[long distance]

ok let me post this also here since it is a direct topic:



That should be true since quite a few non-vested players (less than 4 accrued seasons) were put directly on IR without waiving (f.e. Enunwa of Jetes)

So for further roster speculations id guess these are the rules:

1. Teams can place any player directly on IR at any time (if they do so these players count against the cap - under the 51 top cap hit figures rule of course and teams are on the hook for all of their contract until they can pass physical*).
2. Only players who are placed on IR from 53 roster can return.
3. Teams can bring back any 2 of those to the roster (no designation needed). They can start practicing after week 6 (or after 6 weeks for during the season IR) and can be activated after week 8.


*After a player is waived/injured, the player and the team have five days to agree to an injury settlement. An injury settlement is designed for a team to pay the player for the time he is expected to miss with the injury.

If a settlement is reached, the player becomes a free agent and can sign with another team immediately. If a settlement is not reached, the player goes on the team's injured reserve. A player on IR can't be waived until he passes a physical.

That would mean teams use that for players they definitely want to keep and don't mind paying full salary/carrying full cap hit. Waiving injured players gives teams a bit more leverage.
___

Speculating on some current absentees:
Rivers - not putting him on IR already could mean they think he can return (or not)
Garcia - they can put him on IR and if needed bring back - for the roster or just for some weeks of practice . I guess any number of players that are eligible to return from IR can start practicing after 6 weeks (for max. 5 weeks IIRC) . but you can only activate 2 to the roster
McClellin - here it gets interesting because of relatively high salary and also some dead cap. If he can't start the season Pats might decide he is too expensive to keep around or see him as valuable depth for 2nd part of the season. Reiss hunch was that M Flowers addition could be about McClellin.
Langi - he really looked like he could help the D with his speed, nose for the ball and versatility in addition to being a core ST . so I hope his mysterious absence does not take him to IR. Id take Langi over M.Flowers any time..
Ebner - he was also mysteriously gone from practices without anything reported..
Keionta Davis - interesting to see how they value him. Waiving injured or put directly on IR?
___

BTW - Jelks (very talented but also very injury prone OL udfa) is the only Pat player eligible for PUP this year..

 

[jmt57]

I posted this in the roster projections thread but will copy and paste here, since it is more relevant to the topic of players on Injured Reserve.

Regarding the Jets' Quincy Enunwa, he still shows up on the 90-man roster on their website. I think reports that he was placed on IR may have been presumptive, by authors not familiar with the preseason IR rule.

-------------------------

With all due respect to Miguel's sources, I would really like to see something semi-official in writing about being able to place a non-vested player directly on IR prior to the 53-man roster cutdown.

Transaction reports on team sites, espn, nfl.com, etc. are not exactly 100% accurate.

Case in point, look to see what you find about Miami rookie Isaiah Ford on various transaction reports. Zero mention of being waived/injured (or in some cases, zero mention of being placed on IR).

Yet there is also this: a report that he was indeed waived/injured, and then placed on IR after clearing waivers the following day.
Isaiah Ford: Waived by Dolphins
Dolphins' Isaiah Ford: Placed on injured reserve
Dolphins sign MLB Rey Maualuga; WR Isaiah Ford placed on injured reserve



One other thing to consider: a rule change was supposedly made, but Bill Belichick, Ernie Adams, Nick Caserio and Berj Najarian are all unaware of it? That does not seem plausible (unless you either believe reports about Derek Rivers having a torn ACL were erroneous, or that he can miraculously recover from a torn ACL in record time). Why would the Pats waste a roster spot on Rivers for the last two weeks?

 

[maineman209]

ok let me post this also here since it is a direct topic:



That should be true since quite a few non-vested players (less than 4 accrued seasons) were put directly on IR without waiving (f.e. Enunwa of Jetes)

So for further roster speculations id guess these are the rules:

1. Teams can place any player directly on IR at any time (if they do so these players count against the cap - under the 51 top cap hit figures rule of course and teams are on the hook for all of their contract until they can pass physical*).
2. Only players who are placed on IR from 53 roster can return.
3. Teams can bring back any 2 of those to the roster (no designation needed). They can start practicing after week 6 (or after 6 weeks for during the season IR) and can be activated after week 8.


*After a player is waived/injured, the player and the team have five days to agree to an injury settlement. An injury settlement is designed for a team to pay the player for the time he is expected to miss with the injury.

If a settlement is reached, the player becomes a free agent and can sign with another team immediately. If a settlement is not reached, the player goes on the team's injured reserve. A player on IR can't be waived until he passes a physical.

That would mean teams use that for players they definitely want to keep and don't mind paying full salary/carrying full cap hit. Waiving injured players gives teams a bit more leverage.
___

Speculating on some current absentees:
Rivers - not putting him on IR already could mean they think he can return (or not)
Garcia - they can put him on IR and if needed bring back - for the roster or just for some weeks of practice . I guess any number of players that are eligible to return from IR can start practicing after 6 weeks (for max. 5 weeks IIRC) . but you can only activate 2 to the roster
McClellin - here it gets interesting because of relatively high salary and also some dead cap. If he can't start the season Pats might decide he is too expensive to keep around or see him as valuable depth for 2nd part of the season. Reiss hunch was that M Flowers addition could be about McClellin.
Langi - he really looked like he could help the D with his speed, nose for the ball and versatility in addition to being a core ST . so I hope his mysterious absence does not take him to IR. Id take Langi over M.Flowers any time..
Ebner - he was also mysteriously gone from practices without anything reported..
Keionta Davis - interesting to see how they value him. Waiving injured or put directly on IR?
___

BTW - Jelks (very talented but also very injury prone OL udfa) is the only Pat player eligible for PUP this year..

Technicality, but Jelks in on Active/NFI and would go to Reserve/NFI during cutdowns, which is effectively the same as PUP.

Last I knew, a week ago or so, Keionta Davis was still not medically cleared to practice - due to a non-football injury. If he's not medically cleared and, thus, doesn't practice between now and cutdowns, I think (but do not know) that he can be placed on Reserve/NFI during cutdowns.

 

[Wheelssps]

Related to all of this, the Pats are not as well set up with PUP players, and Brady's suspension, as last year. Not explicitly wishing PUP or a Brady suspension per say, but it was nice to have solid, veteran reinforcements on the bonus roster coming to the rescue around mid season. Those simply allowed the Pats to keep around a couple other talented players and then waive/IR players mid season when the PUP players were ready as opposed to trimming to 53 at the start of the season. I forget the specifics, but the Pats were able to control something like 56 or 57 players with the PUP and Brady suspension last year. Not getting that benefit this year.

 

[Miguel]

With all due respect to Miguel's sources, I would really like to see something semi-official in writing about being able to place a non-vested player directly on IR prior to the 53-man roster cutdown.

Greg Bedard reported that he got confirmation from a league official.

One other thing to consider: a rule change was supposedly made, but Bill Belichick, Ernie Adams, Nick Caserio and Berj Najarian are all unaware of it? That does not seem plausible (unless you either believe reports about Derek Rivers having a torn ACL were erroneous, or that he can miraculously recover from a torn ACL in record time). Why would the Pats waste a roster spot on Rivers for the last two weeks?

Placing Rivers on IR two weeks ago would have still left him on the 90-man roster so the Patriots would not have been wasting a roster spot. If the Pats wanted the roster, they would have to waive/injured Rivers which would have been silly to do.

 

[supafly]

Greg Bedard reported that he got confirmation from a league official.



Placing Rivers on IR two weeks ago would have still left him on the 90-man roster so the Patriots would not have been wasting a roster spot. If the Pats wanted the roster, they would have to waive/injured Rivers which would have been silly to do.

Thanks, Miguel and jmt57, for helping us clarify this issue. Much appreciated.

 

[jmt57]

Thanks, Miguel and jmt57, for helping us clarify this issue. Much appreciated.

Very odd situation, where there has never been an official (or even unofficial) announcement.

Exacerbated by some of the examples (Isaiah Ford w/Fins, Quincy Enunwa w/Jets) cited above.

Another shining example of detailed accuracy from the empty suits at 345 Park Avenue.

 

[maineman209]

From Jeff Howe, Friday morning ...

"Nine Patriots on the active roster weren’t in uniform:
Edelman (torn ACL),
Nate Ebner (undisclosed injury),
Harvey Langi (undisclosed),
Keionta Davis (hasn’t practiced),
Shea McClellin (undisclosed),
Tony Garcia (undisclosed),
Andrew Jelks (non-football injury),
Deatrich Wise (concussion)
and Derek Rivers (torn ACL)."

Add Cy Jones (likely torn ligament) to the list now.

I think Keionta Davis is eligible for Reserve/NFI as well.

Ebner, Langi, McClellin, Garcia (all "undiclosed") - any or all of these guys could be headed to IR. In terms of roster spots, the question is whether or not they're IR'd before or after cutdowns.

 

[Miguel]

BTW, if the Pats needed the 90th roster spot so badly, why have they not placed Edelman on IR? As a vested veteran he is not subject to waivers at this time.

 

[Miguel]

FWIW - My sources have access to the NFL transaction wire so while the media may report transactions incorrectly I can see how they are actually recorded.

 

[Miguel]

Above is a screenshot of the 8/18 transaction wire
Below is a screenshot of the 8/19 tranaction wire

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

From Jeff Howe, Friday morning ...

"Nine Patriots on the active roster weren’t in uniform:
Edelman (torn ACL),
Nate Ebner (undisclosed injury),
Harvey Langi (undisclosed),
Keionta Davis (hasn’t practiced),
Shea McClellin (undisclosed),
Tony Garcia (undisclosed),
Andrew Jelks (non-football injury),
Deatrich Wise (concussion)
and Derek Rivers (torn ACL)."

Add Cy Jones (likely torn ligament) to the list now.

I think Keionta Davis is eligible for Reserve/NFI as well.

Ebner, Langi, McClellin, Garcia (all "undiclosed") - any or all of these guys could be headed to IR. In terms of roster spots, the question is whether or not they're IR'd before or after cutdowns.

QB (3) T.Brady, J.Brissett, J.Garoppolo
RB (7) M.Gillislee, J.Develin, D.Lewis, R.Burkhead, D.Foster, B.Bolden, J.White
WR (5) B.Cooks, M.Mitchell, D.Amendola, A.Carr, C.Hogan
TE (3) R.Gronkowski, J.O'Shaughnessy, D.Allen
C (1) D.Andrews
G (3) S.Mason, J.Thuney, T.Karras
T (4) N.Solder, C.Fleming, C.Croston, M.Cannon
DE (3) T.Flowers, N.Usher, G.Grissom
DT (5) A.Branch, M.Brown, L.Guy, A.Butler, V.Valentine
ILB(3) D.Hightower, D.Harris, E.Roberts
OLB(3) T.Bates, M.Flowers, K.VanNoy
CB (5) M.Butler, S.Gilmore, J.Jones, J.Coleman, E.Rowe
SS (3) B.King, J.Richards, P.Chung
FS (2) D.McCourty, D.Harmon
ST (3) S.Gostkowski, R.Allen, J.Cardona

If that's the 53 men, they really really need an edge guy

 

[maineman209]

QB (3) T.Brady, J.Brissett, J.Garoppolo
RB (7) M.Gillislee, J.Develin, D.Lewis, R.Burkhead, D.Foster, B.Bolden, J.White
WR (5) B.Cooks, M.Mitchell, D.Amendola, A.Carr, C.Hogan
TE (3) R.Gronkowski, J.O'Shaughnessy, D.Allen
C (1) D.Andrews
G (3) S.Mason, J.Thuney, T.Karras
T (4) N.Solder, C.Fleming, C.Croston, M.Cannon
DE (3) T.Flowers, N.Usher, G.Grissom
DT (5) A.Branch, M.Brown, L.Guy, A.Butler, V.Valentine
ILB(3) D.Hightower, D.Harris, E.Roberts
OLB(3) T.Bates, M.Flowers, K.VanNoy
CB (5) M.Butler, S.Gilmore, J.Jones, J.Coleman, E.Rowe
SS (3) B.King, J.Richards, P.Chung
FS (2) D.McCourty, D.Harmon
ST (3) S.Gostkowski, R.Allen, J.Cardona

If that's the 53 men, they really really need an edge guy

Usher instead of Wise?

No Slater?

 

[borg]

I am always in awe of the knowledge of the posters on this board. The attention to detail on every facet of this team and this league is remarkable and I thank you all.

Meanwhile...over on the Bills message board....I think I read members of the Bills Mafia will be lighting farts after their brats n' brew breakfast at their home opener.

 

[ViperGTS]

I think someone down in Foxborough needs to question why they've had 3 acls already.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

Usher instead of Wise?

No Slater?

No of course not ... If everybody on your list goes to IR ... LOL,

I am praying that Wise, Ebner, Slater make the team