Amendola vs Hawkins for the final WR spot.

[cupofjoe1962]

Faulk's an emotion pick rather than a thought pick, no question.

Absolutely !
Thank You

 

[DaBruinz]

Ted Johnson took a pay cut to remain with the Patriots.

Patriots LB Johnson Takes Pay Cut

Johnson ended up retiring to avoid being cut a couple years later.

Unlike Amendola, he could have made more money elsewhere.

Keshawn Martin got a raise last year & didn't make the team.

Ted Johnson wasn't cut in the same year he took the pay cut.. Which was my point.
Johnson retired because he couldn't pass a physical due to concussions. It had nothing to do with avoiding being cut. Seriously. Facts aren't your strong suit.

 

[DaBruinz]

Slater's less of a straight-line speed guy than he is a guy with an incredible twitch and unmatched ability to avoid a jam at the line. He consistently beats two dedicated jammers off the snap to be the first guy to the returner; many NFL receivers have a difficult time beating one. Straight line speed doesn't matter for anything if a corner can hold you up at the line.

It's too bad his hands and route-running ability never developed because he would have been basically uncoverable as a receiver if they had.

This is only partially true.
Slater ran a 4.44- 40. His 20 yard shuttle was 4.40 and his 3 cone was 7.31.

Slater regularly beats his guys because he's got the snap count down pat and he studies the opposing gunner's habits. Then he figures out the best way to beat the guys..

 

[DaBruinz]

Wilfork played a position that is judged by the eye not by the stats.

He was a beast on our DL for years, but if you look through the archives, I was one of a few who believed Wilfork needed to take a major pay cut, because he was not the player he use to be.

Kevin Faulk was a great third down back, but he was never a good 3 down back.

Why, so you think Faulk was a superstar???

Too be honest I have no idea how Faulk made the Patriots HOF.

Don't let the fact Faulk is in the Patriots HOF cloud your vision.
There are a lot better players not yet in the Patriots HOF.

The Koolaid drinking voters, just remember Faulk & forget or never heard of a guy named Russ Francis.

Do you think Faulk should have got in the Patriots HOF before a complete player like Russ Francis????

The fact you have no idea how Faulk made the Patriots HOF shows the type of person the rest of us are forced to deal with.

Why would a guy who was an integral part of 3 SB Rings, was one of the most clutch players during those 3 runs, and leads the franchise for Receptions by a RB be in the Patriots HOF? Could you show me where they keep the stats for blitz pick-ups on 3rd down? And do you take into consideration the Punt Returns (101) and Kick Returns (181) that Faulk had?

Many people have heard of Russ Francis. The problem is that Francis isn't even the Best TE that the Patriots have had in the last 30 years. That's Gronk, who supplanted a guy by the name of Ben Coates. You may have heard of him. Francis was good, but he was here for only 6 years. 92 Games. 207 receptions. 3157 yards. 28 TDs. You think that is Patriots HOF worthy? Especially when Vincent Brisby has nearly identical numbers for his 6 year career..

The Team's HOF isn't just about a player being a SuperStar and personal accomplishments. You probably point to Francis' 3 Pro-Bowls as accomplishments. You would have the rest of us forget that the Pro Bowl is a popularity contest and has been for decades. But, let's remind you that Coates had 5 Pro-Bowls to Francis' 3. Gronk - 4 Pro Bowls with 3 ALL-PRO selections..

 

[DaBruinz]

Faulk's an emotion pick rather than a thought pick, no question.

Emotion pick instead of a thought pick? SMH. That's something that Andy Johnson would say.. And total BS to boot. Gotta love how a guy who was such an integral part of 3 SB championships is called an "emotion pick" and not a "thought" pick.

 

[BlacknGold77]

Amendola over Hawkins all day every day.

big deal, Hawkins is fast....so was Chad Jackson

give me the guy who steps up when the lights are brightest.

2014 AFC Div - 2 TD
SB 49 - TD
SB 51 - 8 rec, TD and game tying 2pt conversion

hate to break it to Mr "Back in my day" but Faulk over Francis, easily.

Faulk
431 rec
7307 yds from scrimmage
12,340 all purpose yds
31 td
3 rings

Francis
393 rec
5274 yds
5274 all purpose yds
40 td
1 ring

 

[DaBruinz]

Yes.... the same Kevin Faulk who was suspended the first game of the 2008 season for getting high at a lil Wayne concert.

Faulk was suspended for possession. He didn't actually fail a drug test..

Do you remember that game against the chiefs? If he was on the field, maybe we would not have lost Brady for the season, because I believe Faulk would have made that block.

And maybe if you had a brain you'd be intelligent, but that's a big supposition. BTW, in 2008, it was a first down play that Brady got injured on, not a 3rd down one. It's unlikely they'd have had Faulk on the field to tip the hand at it being a pass vs. a run.

The fact that you think that part time player Kevin Faulk was a better player than "All World " Russ Francis says a lot about your football knowledge.

YOU are the one who brought up the Kevin Faulk to Russ Francis comparison. Not only did they play in different ERAs, but they played different positions. You claiming that Faulk was a "part-time" player is laughable considering that Faulk played on Special Teams and actually touched the ball more than Russ Francis did.

Faulk touched the ball on offense 1195 times across 161 games. That's 7.4 times per game. Add in the 282 times on kick and punt returns and it's 9.7 times per game. Compare that to Russ Francis who touched the ball 2.2 times per game..

But, yes. Faulk was only a "part-time" player..

 

[DaBruinz]

You're right. Faulk was one of the best pass protecting running backs of all-time. He definitely would have made that block.

Let's step back for a second. People don't seem to be recalling the play very accurately.

It was a 1st down play. It was also Play-Action Pass with Sammy Morris in as the Tailback. Morris is not Faulk in terms of his blocking, but he's no slouch either. Morris job wasn't to block initially, but to sell the run. Pollard launched himself at Morris because Morris sold the run so well. Pollard knocked Morris down and Morris landed on top of Pollard awkwardly. Pollard was able to get free and launch himself again at Brady's knees. Pollard should have been flagged and tossed because going low on a QB was illegal at that point because of the injuries to Palmer and Roethlisberger.

Now, before anyone throws a hissy about their recollection being called into question, here is the info from NFL.com including the video that clearly shows the play...

Watch Kansas City Chiefs vs. New England Patriots [09/07/2008] - NFL.com

Week 1: Tom Brady injury

You wanna think that Kevin Faulk would have been able to take the hit from Pollard and still block him to prevent him from re-launching at Brady, more power to you. It's total speculation on anyone's part..

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah.... That is when he played with a great QB, but he was all pro 3 years in a row with the Patriots.

Imagine what he would do in this era playing with Brady.

Francis was Pro-Bowl, not All- Pro. there is a difference.

 

[DaBruinz]

I have had season tickets since 1979 & I have been attending games since 1972.

Unlike the most of you snowflakes, I have an objective view of my team & I leave the Koolaid for the snowflakes.

I was with the Patriots during all there Super Bowl seasons & I was also with them for Ron Earhardts 2-14 season, Rod Rusts & **** McPhearsond 1-15 seasons.

Look everyone. Cupofjoe feels the need to wave his d**...errr PEDIGREE around.. Let's all be impressed.. NOT..

I just don't drink the Koolaid.
I just don't believe Amendola & Faulk were anything more than roll players.

No opponent ever game planned their defense around shutting down Faulk or Amendola.

I think we have covered this subject enough.... I will give you the last word & I look forward to debating you in the future...

I guarantee you that teams game planned around shutting down Kevin Faulk on 3rd downs. 100% guarantee you.

The fact that you don't think teams did shows YOUR lack of knowledge about football. Particularly about 21st century football where ROLE players are just as important as "every down" players. BTW, it's pretty funny how you disrespect ROLE players, but Belichick has, time and again, stated how Special Teams is 1/3 of the game and if you don't win that, you typically don't win the game. Last I looked, Special teams is filled with ROLE players. But you must clearly know more than a coach who has won the SB 7 times while going to it 10 times.

Joes, I have to break it to you, but you aren't objective. Not in the least bit on this subject anyways. You calling people snowflakes because they have informed opinions that differ from yours is pretty laughable. Fact is that you haven't proven your case at all. You've come up woefully short in all aspects. You've taken to ridiculous attacks on people's names by bringing up the Bruins. You've taken to ridiculous tangents by not actually answering questions asked of you until you've been taken to task for it. And you've taken to ridiculous comparisons taking the entire focus from Amendola / Hawkins to Faulk/Francis. And the kicker of it all is you posting your "pedigree" as if that somehow makes you smarter / more informed than everyone else.[/QUOTE]

 

[moosekill]

You can't really compare tight ends and all purpose running backs/wide receivers. I think that players that played and won super bowls do get emotional picks, but I have no problem with that.

All that being said, I think that while Amendola has indeed made some very, very, important/clutch catches, he is a year older and relatively expensive. The last wide receiver on the Patriots gets very few touches because there are simply so many options. So really, that position isn't a high value position for the Patriots. If another receiver comes along and gives similar or greater production at a much lower price than DA will be gone. If Hawkins isn't better, or at least similar it will be tough for him to make the roster.

 

[bormio]

Let's step back for a second. People don't seem to be recalling the play very accurately.

It was a 1st down play. It was also Play-Action Pass with Sammy Morris in as the Tailback. Morris is not Faulk in terms of his blocking, but he's no slouch either. Morris job wasn't to block initially, but to sell the run. Pollard launched himself at Morris because Morris sold the run so well. Pollard knocked Morris down and Morris landed on top of Pollard awkwardly. Pollard was able to get free and launch himself again at Brady's knees. Pollard should have been flagged and tossed because going low on a QB was illegal at that point because of the injuries to Palmer and Roethlisberger.

Now, before anyone throws a hissy about their recollection being called into question, here is the info from NFL.com including the video that clearly shows the play...

Watch Kansas City Chiefs vs. New England Patriots [09/07/2008] - NFL.com

Week 1: Tom Brady injury

You wanna think that Kevin Faulk would have been able to take the hit from Pollard and still block him to prevent him from re-launching at Brady, more power to you. It's total speculation on anyone's part..

I prefer to never watch that play again.

 

[maineman209]

You should stick with Hockey.
How are Slaters special team stats?

Hawkins was a legend in the CFL for his special team skills.
Unless you don't thinks Belichick values open field tackling skills.

That CFL field is a lot bigger than the NFL field.
When was the last time Amendola made an open field tackle?

Andrew Hawkins' total ST snaps during 2014-2016 with the Browns?

20

Andrew Hawkins age for the 2017 season?

31

 

[maineman209]

If you think Amendola is a great return guy ..... you are out to lunch.

I trust Belichick over the Koolaid kids like yourself to make the right roster decision.

If he keeps Amendola, I am fine with it, but if I was going to place a bet, I would go with Hawkins.

Amendola's career averages with the Pats - 9.3 yds/PR, 23.7 yds/KR would have put him in the top ten in the league in 2016. And he rarely fumbles on returns (one in four seasons).

 

[maineman209]

He has taken 3 straight pay cuts because he was not worth what they were paying him.

17 touchdowns over 8 years = JAG

This is my last post on this subject - need to go..... only time will tell who Belichick keeps.

I am just glad the Patsfans forum isn't making the roster decisions.

With the Pats over the last four seasons, Amendola has 10 regular season TDs and 4 playoff TDs. Considering how much less often he's been targeted than the other WRs, that seems pretty decent to me.

I'm certainly glad that someone who can't be bothered to look stuff up isn't making the roster decisions for the Pats.

 

[maineman209]

Imagine what Russ Francis would have done playing with Brady.

How many pro bowls did Faulk & Amendola make?

The Pro Bowl is a fan popularity contest with numerous votes cast by folks who don't know squat about football. I have no idea why anyone thinks it's a valid stat to use for judging a player's value.

 

[Bruins29]

The Pro Bowl is a fan popularity contest with numerous votes cast by folks who don't know squat about football. I have no idea why anyone thinks it's a valid stat to use for judging a player's value.

Obviously cupof joe dosent know squat about football. You can tell by his persistance on focusing on Pro Bowls or All Pros which he deosent even know the differnce. Or, you could read his posts and see the stupidity in each one.

Either way its borderline entertaining and somewhat pathetic that an adult would act this way on a public forum.

 

[maineman209]

Obviously cupof joe dosent know squat about football. You can tell by his persistance on focusing on Pro Bowls or All Pros which he deosent even know the differnce. Or, you could read his posts and see the stupidity in each one.

Either way its borderline entertaining and somewhat pathetic that an adult would act this way on a public forum.

Making claims using the "Fire! Ready! Aim!" method and then flaming anyone who disagrees is a long-standing Interwebz tradition.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

Francis was Pro-Bowl, not All- Pro. there is a difference.

Faulk & Amendola were neither.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

Obviously cupof joe dosent know squat about football. You can tell by his persistance on focusing on Pro Bowls or All Pros which he deosent even know the differnce. Or, you could read his posts and see the stupidity in each one.

Either way its borderline entertaining and somewhat pathetic that an adult would act this way on a public forum.

Anyone who thinks Kevin Faulk is a better football player than Russ Francis knows nothing about football.

Francis was a complete player while Faulk was a roll player.

You say Kevin Faulk won 3 Super Bowls for the Patriots....

In the 2001, 2003, & 2004 the Patriots won 9 games & Faulk had 39 carries in 9 games (4.3 carries per game) & he caught 15 total passes in those 9 games (1.6 per game).... As far as touchdowns........ zero rushing & zero receiving.....

JR Redmond had a better playoffs than Faulk in 2001. Redmond was also on the field on the winning drive while Faulk was on the bench.

Faulk has 3 championship rings because he was on the roster.

In the 2011 Super Bowl, Faulk didn't even dress.

Hey I have covered this subject enough.... feel free to have the last word (you need it) & then you can kiss your Faulk fathead goodnight.

Just tell me how much Faulk contributed to those super bowls... lol
Feel free to list all those touchdowns he scored on the years we won the Super Bowls with Faulk on the team. That shouldn't take you very much time...... LoL