OT NBA Draft Lottery

[Kdo5]

I'm not so sure. Porzingis has been there for 2 seasons now and even with Carmelo and other name players he hasn't been enough of an impact player to get them out of the extreme suck that is the Knicks.

Also Remember that like the Jets, the Knick sometimes are subject to doing things that put them 0n to the back pages of the media, rather that what's good for their team. Porzingis has had 2 years to be the "savior", clearly he wasn't. Having the #1 pick would keep the Knicks a major story for most of the next 2 months.

Now my question is, does Porzingis have the toughness to become a major defensive presence.

btw- I'd give the number #1 pick plus a player like JCrowder for Antony Davis

It will take more than #1 and Crowder to get Davis. I'm OK with sending a good package for him though. Would not want to include Jaylen in it though.

Porzingous is very young, I don't think it's all that fair to expect him to have made a huge difference and helped turn the Knicks around already.

 

[rochrist]

What makes me choose Russell is his incredible record of success, which is unmatched in the history of all team sports.

Until his arrival the Celts had never won anything and after he left they didn't win again for 5 years. While he was a player and later a player coach, he led the Celts to 11 titles in 13 years, with his only misses being a loss in the NBA finals and a loss in the Eastern Division finals.

At every level he played he led his teams to championships, 2 in college and 1 in the Olympics in addition to his pro success. I'm sure you've heard the crazy stat about Russell playing in 24 all or nothing games in his career and winning all 24 of them.

And about this nonsense that Russell played against inferior competition, which makes zero sense because he played in a league that wasn't half as watered down as it is now. When he led the Celts to playoff wins it was against real teams with real centers, not the fluff they call playoff teams now. Right now there's a team in each conference that hasn't lost a playoff game yet.

As for Jordan, Larry Bird owned him most times they played each other, so unless I'm willing to put Bird ahead of Russell, which I'm not, then my opinion stands. Russell is the best.

Yeah, I never got the 'but there were only 8 teams in the league' thing! True. 8 teams splitting up the talent. Not 30. Of course there is more talent now as well, but it isn't a cut and dried thing. There were some absolutely loaded teams back then that couldn't sniff a title because of the Cs.

 

[rochrist]

Interesting - I heard Gasper being interviewed and was asked if he would trade the #1 pick for the following:

Porzingious
Anthony- Townes
Westbrook
George
Butler.

The only one he said no to was Butler, but he said he'd choose the player over the pick for all the rest.

BTW- correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the C's have ANOTHER likely lottery pick in next year's draft?

If that is true then I think I'm more in favor of making the trade this year instead of Fultz. What is true of the Browns is true in a certain way to the C's. You can have TOO many draft picks, or be TOO young. This is especially true when you factor in the amount of time it takes these young kids to develop and mature into true impact players. Fultz might indeed be a future all star, but that is a MIGHT, and even if he is, what will the C's look like when it finally happens 2-3 years down the road.

I agree with Gasper's group of Townes, Westbrook and George (only if he extends). I would say no to Porzingous and Butler for that #1 pick. Now the question is, what young vet would pry you off of that #1 pick?

And then when you lose out in the lottery next year?

 

[woolster22]

Ball has no mid range game, and struggles to create for himself off the dribble. Plus...that goofy ass shot. He may he slightly taller than fultz, but comes with all sorts of question marks. Fultz couldnt make a varsity hs squad 3 or 4 years ago, and still looks ro be physically developing (or maybe im almost 30 and hes 19, but he has a baby face look to him, and given a "late bloomer" is probably not physically mature). Ball is closer in that regard (needs to add weight), but that shot motion is garbage. He lives off transition creation, which is easily shut down at the pro level.

Fultz can create for himself, and has a great mid range game while flashing ability to produce from deep (not to the point of ball or his 3 chucking brothers). He can finish at the rim and is great in the paint, often making bigs look silly with his handling, athleticism, and length/finishing ability (play the drive and he rises up, get in his face and he undresses you. Another guard? He can shoot over the top at will). His length carries him on defense, where he needs work. Ball? His defense is pretty embarassing. He gets lucky being able to gamble and overcommit, playing as the superior athlete. In the pro's? It will be ugly.

Then theres the intangibles. Ball has been hyped his whole life, with a father looking for 1 billion for garbage shoes and $220 flip flops (****ing flip flops...220? Brain must be scrambled from all the vacuuming his nose did in past decades). Fultz seems like a well rounded kid, worried about recieving his degree and excited to be able to provide for his mother and sister.

Antone that wants ball over fultz (not even taking lavar into account) need to put the bottle down. Its much easier to create when your supporting cast isnt straight garbage.

In the age of super teams, the Celtics have a legit opportunity to draft 3 all stars in 3 straight years, while contending AND developing the young talent. Brown is legit. He needs some confidence on o (maybe some help to the unit outside of IT would help nudge that), and a trio of Fultz/Brown/IT next year? With an almost guaranteed top 5 pick again next year? And the ability to sign a big $ vet? All sorts of pieces (crowder, bradley, olynyk can all be shipped out for all i care) to use as ammo to land a serviceable center so Horfird can play the 4? Whats not to like? A few years of playoff runs, while loading up for the next decade plus. Fultz' floor is perennial all star in 2 years. I can see Ball struggling for 2 or 3 while he develops his game, being a 2nd tier facilitator. His shot mechanics are so damn bad i dont see how any team lets him hit an nba floor until they are corrected. Hes wildly less effective when he cant jump into his shot, and his mechanics make pull up jumpers damn near impossible IN THE NCAA when coming off his right hand. Speinkle in some pro length/athleticism, and i see him struggling to make the jump.

Long story short, if the celtics take ball, ill treat them as i did the sox after running off tito and bringing in BOBBY ****ING VALENTINE (nfl equivalent, chasing off BB, and hiring Herm Edwards. Ok, maybe thats a bit harsh). I didnt watch a damn Sox game until last season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah, I never got the 'but there were only 8 teams in the league' thing! True. 8 teams splitting up the talent. Not 30. Of course there is more talent now as well, but it isn't a cut and dried thing. There were some absolutely loaded teams back then that couldn't sniff a title because of the Cs.

It's nonsensical.

Russ battled against Chamberlain, West, Baylor, Pettitt and countless other HoFers and wooped their asses because he played the game much differently then they, or anyone else since has.

If it was so friggan easy then why didn't more teams do it.

 

[realtime]

Ball has no mid range game, and struggles to create for himself off the dribble. Plus...that goofy ass shot. He may he slightly taller than fultz, but comes with all sorts of question marks. Fultz couldnt make a varsity hs squad 3 or 4 years ago, and still looks ro be physically developing (or maybe im almost 30 and hes 19, but he has a baby face look to him, and given a "late bloomer" is probably not physically mature). Ball is closer in that regard (needs to add weight), but that shot motion is garbage. He lives off transition creation, which is easily shut down at the pro level.

Fultz can create for himself, and has a great mid range game while flashing ability to produce from deep (not to the point of ball or his 3 chucking brothers). He can finish at the rim and is great in the paint, often making bigs look silly with his handling, athleticism, and length/finishing ability (play the drive and he rises up, get in his face and he undresses you. Another guard? He can shoot over the top at will). His length carries him on defense, where he needs work. Ball? His defense is pretty embarassing. He gets lucky being able to gamble and overcommit, playing as the superior athlete. In the pro's? It will be ugly.

Then theres the intangibles. Ball has been hyped his whole life, with a father looking for 1 billion for garbage shoes and $220 flip flops (****ing flip flops...220? Brain must be scrambled from all the vacuuming his nose did in past decades). Fultz seems like a well rounded kid, worried about recieving his degree and excited to be able to provide for his mother and sister.

Antone that wants ball over fultz (not even taking lavar into account) need to put the bottle down. Its much easier to create when your supporting cast isnt straight garbage.

In the age of super teams, the Celtics have a legit opportunity to draft 3 all stars in 3 straight years, while contending AND developing the young talent. Brown is legit. He needs some confidence on o (maybe some help to the unit outside of IT would help nudge that), and a trio of Fultz/Brown/IT next year? With an almost guaranteed top 5 pick again next year? And the ability to sign a big $ vet? All sorts of pieces (crowder, bradley, olynyk can all be shipped out for all i care) to use as ammo to land a serviceable center so Horfird can play the 4? Whats not to like? A few years of playoff runs, while loading up for the next decade plus. Fultz' floor is perennial all star in 2 years. I can see Ball struggling for 2 or 3 while he develops his game, being a 2nd tier facilitator. His shot mechanics are so damn bad i dont see how any team lets him hit an nba floor until they are corrected. Hes wildly less effective when he cant jump into his shot, and his mechanics make pull up jumpers damn near impossible IN THE NCAA when coming off his right hand. Speinkle in some pro length/athleticism, and i see him struggling to make the jump.

Long story short, if the celtics take ball, ill treat them as i did the sox after running off tito and bringing in BOBBY ****ING VALENTINE (nfl equivalent, chasing off BB, and hiring Herm Edwards. Ok, maybe thats a bit harsh). I didnt watch a damn Sox game until last season.

Great post. Except for your last paragraph, this pretty much exactly sums up my views on Fultz, Ball and the C's (very expendable) supporting cast.

 

[deroc5050]

I am not an expert on Fultz but the Celtics first and foremost need consistent scorers. You can get rebounders and defenders aka role players when ever.. Personally I would like the Celtics to resign Bradley and IT and develop Fultz and Brown.

If you watch the Celtics there biggest problem besides IT is that they don't have that consistent scorer.. 1 night its Bradley.. 1 night its Crowder.. 1 night its friggen Olynyk lol.. They need that 2nd scorer to open up the floor.

The word is the Celtics will either trade IT or Bradley, because they can't keep both of them.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I am not an expert on Fultz but the Celtics first and foremost need consistent scorers. You can get rebounders and defenders aka role players when ever.. Personally I would like the Celtics to resign Bradley and IT and develop Fultz and Brown.

If you watch the Celtics there biggest problem besides IT is that they don't have that consistent scorer.. 1 night its Bradley.. 1 night its Crowder.. 1 night its friggen Olynyk lol.. They need that 2nd scorer to open up the floor.

The word is the Celtics will either trade IT or Bradley, because they can't keep both of them.

I would trade Bradley and Olynyk and grab a center who will be backed up by Zizic - move Horford to PF - can Amir Johnson.
Grab Fultz all day long -

 

[primetime]

Yeah. LeBron just steamrolled an exhausted team being led by a 5'9 PG with no other consistent scoring options. Surely, he's the GOAT of basketball.

P.S.- Socialism has never once improved any society that was foolish enough to embrace it.

LeBron has steamrolled everyone in this era consistently. Your claim that he's not as good as Scottie Pippen is, frankly, totally absurd. And Pippen is one of the best of all-time.

P.S. I'm hardly the greatest defender of the Soviet Union, but I feel inclined to mention they they managed to more than double life expectancy, increase standard of living at a monumental rate, and (most importantly!) kill more Nazis than any other country, so that seems a specious claim. But don't get this relegated to the political forum, DM me if you want to consider this further. We're probably closer than you think.

 

[Kdo5]

Interesting - I heard Gasper being interviewed and was asked if he would trade the #1 pick for the following:

Porzingious
Anthony- Townes
Westbrook
George
Butler.

The only one he said no to was Butler, but he said he'd choose the player over the pick for all the rest.

BTW- correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the C's have ANOTHER likely lottery pick in next year's draft?

If that is true then I think I'm more in favor of making the trade this year instead of Fultz. What is true of the Browns is true in a certain way to the C's. You can have TOO many draft picks, or be TOO young. This is especially true when you factor in the amount of time it takes these young kids to develop and mature into true impact players. Fultz might indeed be a future all star, but that is a MIGHT, and even if he is, what will the C's look like when it finally happens 2-3 years down the road.

Trying the 'win now' mentality is too risky IMO. It's unlikely that there will be anyone available to us who we can add that will enable us to challenge Cleveland or GSW for the next several years.

If there is someone, that player needs to be a young mega-stud such as KAT or AD. If we trade the pick, it remains more likely than not that we fall short of a title. In which case all of this will be for not. It will have resulted in a really good team that probably couldn't get over the hump and win a title.

Way better to take our chances with a group of young stars down the road.

 

[realtime]

I would trade Bradley and Olynyk and grab a center who will be backed up by Zizic - move Horford to PF - can Amir Johnson.
Grab Fultz all day long -

So many guys on this team either have no business in the NBA or are completely and easily replaceable. Their success is is a real credit to the players and the coaching staff.

Looking forward to Fultz (hopefully), Zizic, Yabu and Nader replacing some of the dead wood next season and some incoming veterans from trades and/or FA signings replacing the rest. Adios James Young, we hardly knew ye . . . .

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

LeBron has steamrolled everyone in this era consistently. Your claim that he's not as good as Scottie Pippen is, frankly, totally absurd. And Pippen is one of the best of all-time.

P.S. I'm hardly the greatest defender of the Soviet Union, but I feel inclined to mention they they managed to more than double life expectancy, increase standard of living at a monumental rate, and (most importantly!) kill more Nazis than any other country, so that seems a specious claim. But don't get this relegated to the political forum, DM me if you want to consider this further. We're probably closer than you think.

We can agree to disagree on Lebron-Pippen.

These days I find political discussions more exasperating than enlightening.

 

[fnordcircle]

Is there a LeBron in this draft? Or are they gonna draft another ho-hum guy?

 

[realtime]

Is there a LeBron in this draft? Or are they gonna draft another ho-hum guy?

Neither.

 

[woolster22]

LeBron has steamrolled everyone in this era consistently. Your claim that he's not as good as Scottie Pippen is, frankly, totally absurd. And Pippen is one of the best of all-time.

P.S. I'm hardly the greatest defender of the Soviet Union, but I feel inclined to mention they they managed to more than double life expectancy, increase standard of living at a monumental rate, and (most importantly!) kill more Nazis than any other country, so that seems a specious claim. But don't get this relegated to the political forum, DM me if you want to consider this further. We're probably closer than you think.

Isn't that population shrinking/expected to shrink?

Great post. Except for your last paragraph, this pretty much exactly sums up my views on Fultz, Ball and the C's (very expendable) supporting cast.

What part of running tito (and Theo, now that I revisit "chicken&beer") out of town and hiring Bobby "2 full years as local tv stooge" Valentine as manager isn't an absolute joke? I didn't agree and didn't bother watching. To compare Tito to BB is a bit absurd. At least my tv pundit stooge nfl HC (for the time) makes up the gap a bit. Pause now....


I was going to end the half-hearted spat there. I googled some things. Herm had been a pundit for 6ish years at the time of the Sox exodus. However, to keep the time frames aligned: Eric Mangini.

If (when) Fultz learns how to attack defensively face up, compared to the less physically agressive trail-chase swat he's shown a knack for (ie: he's coming as help on a backside bail-out through the paint) he has the ability to dominate on both ends. His length only aids that. Compared to Lonzo's stumbling through a crossover when not shooting a lane opening lanes himself...blah. I'd take a flier on one of the forwards over Ball. But from what little I've seen, if I am Ainge, you HAVE TO TAKE FULTZ.

He is the guy with the fundamentally sound tools, that is "pro ready," as far as creating offense for himself. What has been the biggest question for the c's this year..."who is helping IT when he gets shut-down/off night." Brown has the tools, he needs to work on them. Ball is brandied as the better facilitator. We have Horford who can distribute, and IT who is a better option bringing it up the court than either (Ball/Fultz). Keep in mind, Fultz was THE ONLY GUY on the floor offensively. Ball was facilitating fast breaks and tossing up 3s.

All that said. Crazy thought:
Draft Fultz.
Olynyk, Crowder are trade bait (anyone except: IT, Horford, Bradley, Green(?)), no clue on what we have with all the young guys stashed off the roster. I'd say developmental bigs are the priority need.

4 starters are IT, Horford, Brown/Bradley/Green/Fultz, ?big?

Be happy with reaching 2nd round of play offs.

Let IT walk/sign&trade/deadline trade for big(not sure of what the options for c's to retain value are)

Sign Bradley to play lock down d with scoring ability w/ brown and fultz who have hopefully created problems for teams. (Assuming value for IT departure).

Lottery pick again.

If an injury to Horford or something crazy to derail next season early happens; IT is trade bait (assuming fultz/brown making their mark). In such a scenario, youd have a great set of "smalls," horford, a mystery pick, and i pray some athletic(pick n pop def) big.

Argue all you want with IT as trade bait, but if Brown progresses, add fultz ( and he comes as advertised), and you have 1 max contract freed up (with Bradley on a lucrative deal). I dont know the bs with bird rules and exceptions re NBA, and IDGAF. Radio pundits managed to create a scenario for; IT max contract, another max contract player, plus keeping Crowder+younger fellas?

 

[PatriotReign]

I honestly hope the Cavs sweep the C's badly so Ainge isn't deluded into trading the pick for a George or Butler because he thinks they are close. Pick Fultz, try to lure Hayward, resign Avery and Smart, and let Isaiah walk after next year. I'd also consider trading back into the 5-10 spot for Johnathan Isaac.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Isn't that population shrinking/expected to shrink?



What part of running tito (and Theo, now that I revisit "chicken&beer") out of town and hiring Bobby "2 full years as local tv stooge" Valentine as manager isn't an absolute joke? I didn't agree and didn't bother watching. To compare Tito to BB is a bit absurd. At least my tv pundit stooge nfl HC (for the time) makes up the gap a bit. Pause now....


I was going to end the half-hearted spat there. I googled some things. Herm had been a pundit for 6ish years at the time of the Sox exodus. However, to keep the time frames aligned: Eric Mangini.

If (when) Fultz learns how to attack defensively face up, compared to the less physically agressive trail-chase swat he's shown a knack for (ie: he's coming as help on a backside bail-out through the paint) he has the ability to dominate on both ends. His length only aids that. Compared to Lonzo's stumbling through a crossover when not shooting a lane opening lanes himself...blah. I'd take a flier on one of the forwards over Ball. But from what little I've seen, if I am Ainge, you HAVE TO TAKE FULTZ.

He is the guy with the fundamentally sound tools, that is "pro ready," as far as creating offense for himself. What has been the biggest question for the c's this year..."who is helping IT when he gets shut-down/off night." Brown has the tools, he needs to work on them. Ball is brandied as the better facilitator. We have Horford who can distribute, and IT who is a better option bringing it up the court than either (Ball/Fultz). Keep in mind, Fultz was THE ONLY GUY on the floor offensively. Ball was facilitating fast breaks and tossing up 3s.

All that said. Crazy thought:
Draft Fultz.
Olynyk, Crowder are trade bait (anyone except: IT, Horford, Bradley, Green(?)), no clue on what we have with all the young guys stashed off the roster. I'd say developmental bigs are the priority need.

4 starters are IT, Horford, Brown/Bradley/Green/Fultz, ?big?

Be happy with reaching 2nd round of play offs.

Let IT walk/sign&trade/deadline trade for big(not sure of what the options for c's to retain value are)

Sign Bradley to play lock down d with scoring ability w/ brown and fultz who have hopefully created problems for teams. (Assuming value for IT departure).

Lottery pick again.

If an injury to Horford or something crazy to derail next season early happens; IT is trade bait (assuming fultz/brown making their mark). In such a scenario, youd have a great set of "smalls," horford, a mystery pick, and i pray some athletic(pick n pop def) big.

Argue all you want with IT as trade bait, but if Brown progresses, add fultz ( and he comes as advertised), and you have 1 max contract freed up (with Bradley on a lucrative deal). I dont know the bs with bird rules and exceptions re NBA, and IDGAF. Radio pundits managed to create a scenario for; IT max contract, another max contract player, plus keeping Crowder+younger fellas?

That, plus there are some really nice looking "bigs" coming out next year.

Ayton, Bamba (dude has like an 8' wingspan ), and Robert Williams are projected to be in the top 5 next year (which is well within the range of Nets 2018).

A trio of Fultz-J. Brown- Bamba would be a VERY promising future.

LA BAMBA!

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

NETS MUST be tried of all the winning they've done?

 

[captain stone]

I honestly hope the Cavs sweep the C's badly so Ainge isn't deluded into trading the pick for a George or Butler because he thinks they are close. Pick Fultz, try to lure Hayward, resign Avery and Smart, and let Isaiah walk after next year. I'd also consider trading back into the 5-10 spot for Johnathan Isaac.

I don't agree with everything in the post, such as re-signing Marcus Smart (unless it's for something closer to the minimum than for the maximum, maybe), but I absolutely do agree with trying to sign Gordon Hayward from Utah.

 

[Kdo5]

I honestly hope the Cavs sweep the C's badly so Ainge isn't deluded into trading the pick for a George or Butler because he thinks they are close. Pick Fultz, try to lure Hayward, resign Avery and Smart, and let Isaiah walk after next year. I'd also consider trading back into the 5-10 spot for Johnathan Isaac.

If we aren't going to sign IT to the max after next year we ought to trade him while his value is high.