Will Any UDFA Players Make the Patriots' Hollister, Langi Good Candidates

[goheels22002]

I hope that at least one of Safeties David Jones & Demarius Travis can make the 53 as a backup/STer, replacing the bust (as predicted) Jordan Richards.

I would say WR Austin Carr has a chance, but there just might not be any room there. Same with TE Jacob Hollister.

OLman Cole Croston might have a chance as a backup LG. He has Zero chance as an OT.

I think LB Brooks Ellis has a chance. Jonny Freeny & Shea McClellin both suck and need to be replaced; not a fan of lil' Elandon Roberts either. Enter Harvey Langi (to replace Freeny), U of Maine alum Trevor Bates (to replace McClellin), and Ellis to replace Roberts.

CB DJ Killings has a chance to replace either Justin Coleman or Jonny Jones as the 5th/6th CB.

Finally, I think that OT Max Rich could make an excellent Swing Tackle, but with Garcia & McDermott ahead of him, I'm afraid that he might not be given that chance here.

Also forgot to mention that Josh Augusta, should he be willing to put in the effort, could replace both Hamilton & Kilgo as the 5th DT

You seem grumpy today.

I agree that the safeties have a shot, although it's unclear how a rookie UDFA competes with Harmon's experience in the context of a very experienced and overall top 3 secondary. (I hope they extend Butler at a reasonable cost.)

Hollister is a very interesting guy - WR height, 4.58 speed, and athletic. He'll be fun to watch in camp. He's not an NFL in-line blocker, but the Patriots don't need that. If he can get on the same page as Brady, he has classic H-back size and athleticism. He might compete with Develin for a roster spot.

The linebacker position could use an upgrade at depth, but I just love tackling machine Elandon Roberts. He has an incredible nose for the ball and elite closing speed. Roberts reads blocking schemes as well as anyone on this team. He reminds me of Rodney Harrison when Rodney would line up in the box.

I doubt Killings has a chance. He's a mauler without great coverage skills who didn't match up with power conference receivers. I expect a lot of out Cyrus Jones this year in coverage and on special teams. It's a numbers game at CB with Butler, Rowe, Jones, Gilmore and Coleman. I tell ya, I love Rowe and Gilmore on the wideouts and Butler in the slot, or wherever the need is greatest. The Patriots have three elite corners for the first time that I can ever remember. Belichick has come a long way from the 2010-12 tear-your-hair-out years.

 

[farn]

Some things in this post are ridiculous. In a league with a salary cap, teams can be very even on most weekends. Often, the very difference between a win / loss IS field position and/or a stupid play on ST.

I've been very impressed w NE's ST unit in 2014-15-16. They rarely give up big plays and they often come up with a play that set the opponent back. Those then lead to a big play such as safeties or just a punt deep into their zone setting up NE nicely at midfield.

Undrafted FAs have a chance here. BB gives them a shot if they perform and show promise. But let's not go crazy and suggest 1/2 of the ST performers BB trusts are out the door. Further, Harmon bashing seems ridiculous. Here is a guy who comes up w a few big, game changing INTs a year and by all accounts is a leader the other players respect. He is making some good $ on his new contract, but it hardly broke the bank. It is in line w a performer you can trust in tough spots.

What's going on here ? Why do we think a slew of no-names are waltzing in to replace two-time SB champs ?

 

[captain stone]

You seem grumpy today.

I agree that the safeties have a shot, although it's unclear how a rookie UDFA competes with Harmon's experience in the context of a very experienced and overall top 3 secondary. (I hope they extend Butler at a reasonable cost.)

Hollister is a very interesting guy - WR height, 4.58 speed, and athletic. He'll be fun to watch in camp. He's not an NFL in-line blocker, but the Patriots don't need that. If he can get on the same page as Brady, he has classic H-back size and athleticism. He might compete with Develin for a roster spot.

The linebacker position could use an upgrade at depth, but I just love tackling machine Elandon Roberts. He has an incredible nose for the ball and elite closing speed. Roberts reads blocking schemes as well as anyone on this team. He reminds me of Rodney Harrison when Rodney would line up in the box.

I doubt Killings has a chance. He's a mauler without great coverage skills who didn't match up with power conference receivers. I expect a lot of out Cyrus Jones this year in coverage and on special teams. It's a numbers game at CB with Butler, Rowe, Jones, Gilmore and Coleman. I tell ya, I love Rowe and Gilmore on the wideouts and Butler in the slot, or wherever the need is greatest. The Patriots have three elite corners for the first time that I can ever remember. Belichick has come a long way from the 2010-12 tear-your-hair-out years.

It seems that I'm always grumpy post-draft; probably because almost all of the players the Draft Forum has been discussing end up going to other teams and making them better.

One correction: I was suggesting/hoping that one of the UDFA Safeties replaces Jordan Richards, not Harmon, who is currently the only legit backup to McCourty we have.

I agree about Jake Hollister: the Pats need a Move TE more than they need another In-Line TE, the duties for which should be more than capably filled by Gronk & Dwayne Allen (& Matt Lengel, should he make the team).

You're probably right about Killing's chances here. Based on pedigree & experience, the 5th & 6th (if there is a 6th) CB spots should probably go to Jonathan Jones & Justin Coleman, though Coleman didn't impress at all last season as a 2nd-year player. I'm still not sure why he was kept instead of Darryl Roberts. I would also like to see Jason McCourty signed as the perfect 4th/5th CB, if he is willing to accept the salary that comes with being a vet 4th/5th CB.

And I will back-track, a bit, on Elandon Roberts. I was comparing the pro day workouts of him & Brooks Ellis in the hopes of countering the perception that Ellis is a less-athletic version of Roberts. However, this is a case where perception does indeed = reality. Roberts' #s are not just better, they are Much better. OTOH, I still can't get the image of his complete feck-up in coverage during the 4th quarter of the SB out of my head. That play (which included Harmon's whiff) almost cost us everything. So I am now willing to give him at least one more year to improve upon that facet of his game.
See, I'm not grumpy all of the time (just most of the time).

 

[mgteich]

It seems that I'm always grumpy post-draft; probably because almost all of the players the Draft Forum has been discussing end up going to other teams and making them better.

And why wouldn't 31/32 teams pick almost all of the players discussed?

 

[RobertWeathers]

OTOH, McClellin also contributed a lot on special teams - way more than just attempting to block FGs. At 15.6 ST snaps per game active, McClellin was a regular on three of the four primary ST units. Freeny contributed less than 10 ST snaps per game active. Van Noy had about 8/GA. Roberts contributed a total of only 19 ST snaps all season.

In terms of snaps on defense, HT (obviously) had the highest count per game active at 55, although a not inconsiderable portion of those snaps involved HT dropping down to the LoS on the edge.

Van Noy was next at 35; McClellin had 27 LB snaps/GA.

Freeny was getting around 20 snaps/GA, and Roberts essentially took over those snaps after Freeny went to IR.

Cutting or trading McClellin after June 1st saves a net of $2.3M in cap space. Cutting trading Freeny saves a net of $1.3M.

My guess (at this very early stage) is that Freeny is the most vulnerable to competition from the likes of Langi and Ellis (or Trevor Bates). As unpopular as it will be to even say this, unless Roberts (a two-down run-stopper) significantly improves his coverage skills and/or becomes a regular special teams contributor on a couple of units (+/- 10 snaps per game), he may also be challenged for his roster spot. BTW, Ellis has been scouted as (at this point) a two-down run-stopper - essentially a less athletic version of Roberts - "at this point" because one or the other(or both, or neither) may have shown more by the end of OTAs and Camp.

Based on last season, the considerations from my perspective are ...
... If the Pats want to continue to be able to use HT on the LoS on the edge, then both LBs in a 2-LB set probably need to have pretty decent all-around game (both run-defense and coverage).
... The Pats have often relied on plugging Chung into an LB role in those 2-LB sets to provide better pass coverage. Chung also had the highest total snap count on the team in 2016 (1206 between defense and ST ... about 100 more than any other player). If the Pats want to reduce their situational reliance on Chung (and reduce his total snap count a bit).
... Grissom had the highest usage on ST in 2016 (23 snaps/GA), but contributed a total of only 11 snaps on defense. Mingo (now gone), was the 3rd-highest contributor on ST with 20 snaps/GA (and was 4th in ST tackles). So, if one or more of Langi, Ellis, Bates can replace those ST snaps as well as upgrade Freeny and/or Roberts, both of them and Grissom could be vulnerable.

Good post.

Grissom and Freeny are vulnerable.

Shea gets picked on way too much on this board. He's a very good backup on the inside, outside and hand in the dirt and plays STs. His salary is very reasonable as well for all he does.

 

[mgteich]

Good post.

Grissom and Freeny are vulnerable.

Shea gets picked on way too much on this board. He's a very good backup on the inside, outside and hand in the dirt and plays STs. His salary is very reasonable as well for all he does.

Yes, Grissom and Freeny are vulnerable. Both need to make the team as special teamers. Both are fine special teamers.

IMHO, Grissom has almost no chance, absent injury. We have lots and lots of linemen. On the other hand, Freeny has weaker competition for the 5th or 6th LB spot. Everyone here has give his roster spot to an UDFA. That a bit different from Grissom who has to beat out Ninkovich, Flowers, Ealy, Wise or Rivers. (I have Guy winning one of the 4 -5 DT positions).

 

[captain stone]

And why wouldn't 31/32 teams pick almost all of the players discussed?

You're right, of course. It's still hard to watch 253 players chosen and you have only 4 of them.

 

[The Gr8est]

You're right, of course. It's still hard to watch 253 players chosen and you have only 4 of them.

We only got 4 of them?

I wasn't sure since I was kind of blinded by the glare coming off of all those Lombardis.

 

[scott99]

I think most of the favorites to make the team out of this UDFA group will wind up on the Practice Squad. I'm really hoping we can sneak Carr onto the practice squad. He is the perfect Patriot's slot receiver. Langi and Jacob Hollister have the best chances to make he team, due to the lack of talent at those positions (after the top 2).

 

[Jackson 2]

I think most of the favorites to make the team out of this UDFA group will wind up on the Practice Squad. I'm really hoping we can sneak Carr onto the practice squad. He is the perfect Patriot's slot receiver. Langi and Jacob Hollister have the best chances to make he team, due to the lack of talent at those positions (after the top 2).

I agree about Carr. WR is stacked right now and I don't know how he makes it unless there's an injury or two, but I think somehow he does. I believe it'll be tough to stash him on the PS. I think he's really good.

 

[scott99]

I agree about Carr. WR is stacked right now and I don't know how he makes it unless there's an injury or two, but I think somehow he does. I believe it'll be tough to stash him on the PS. I think he's really good.

I agree, I think Carr fits the Pats perfectly as a slot receiver. I was thrilled when they signed him. One of my favorites in the draft. I think Hollister and O'Shaughnessy fight it out for the last TE spot. Both more BIG receivers than overall TE's (move TE's). But both seem really talented.