Jordan Richards

[maineman209]

I dont know what to make of it because Tavon Wilson has been solid for the Lions and everyone viewed him here as a scrub.

A couple of tings that folks forget about Wilson ...
... like Richards, he's virtually identical in size and athleticism to Chung
... as a rookie, he had 6 PD, 4 INT, 2 fumble recoveries and 36 tackles playing in 42% of the defensive snaps. He also had a 74-yard pick-six against the Ravens in his second season.

What people do remember about Wilson is all the blown coverages that resulted in TDs.

Wilson was an extremely undisciplined player within the Pats' defensive schemes. It wasn't merely a matter of freelancing and occasionally getting burned - even Chung had that issue during his first stint as a Pat. Wilson simply never seemed to understand where he was supposed to be and how he was supposed to react to situations.

The fact that he's now thriving in Detroit should demonstrate that he was never a "bad" player. He simply never learned how to be a good player in the Pats' system. Likely the only reason he was kept through the end of his rookie contract was the fact that he became an excellent special- teamer (#2 in ST tackles one year, IIRC).

 

[Thelonious]

Just an amazingly bad pick. Scouts were exactly right, unathletic and slow as molasses in wintertime.

Game theory bill! Don't draft udfa in the 2nd round when there's a high high probability theyll be around much much later. And no, vollmer doesnt count, he wasn't well known but scouts who saw him were impressed. Houston wasnt much of a team back then. There was nothing about ruchards that said "snap this guy up before someone else does!". Crazy crazy pick especially for an econ major.

Oh, I think craziness is exactly what I would expect from an economics major. BB is great at what he does despite the academic indicretions of his youth. My life has described a similar arc. I began as a science/math guy, but once I switched over to the humanities, I began the steady climb to the present godlike status which I, and all who know me, so enjoy.

 

[maineman209]

The "expert consensus" this year was that Rivers would be off the board in the 2nd round, possibly in the late first.

Basing one's opinion about when a prospect should have been drafted on the "expert consensus" - and then basing one's "analysis" of why a prospect has succeeded or failed on when that "expert consensus" dictated he should have been drafted - cuts both ways.

Just sayin'.

 

[rookBoston]

Jeez... so many snap judgements.

We had exactly this kind of thread about Edelman, before he step out of the depth chart to become a star. James White, too, who's become a SB hero. Guys get caught on the depth chart all the time. The fact that they are or aren't starting by their 3rd year should not be used as evidence that they suck... not on this team.

Fact is, we don't know how good Richards is because he hasn't been on the field. That's not a negative... that's just inconclusive.

With the depth on the team, quality players were healthy scratches pretty regularly in 2016, including real contributors like Sheard, Amendola, McClellin. It's not nearly as damning to be inactive on a roster with this much talent as it would be on the Jets or the Browns.

I see it this way: if Richards was truly a bust, he wouldn't be on the roster. The quality of the players BB cut to make a roster spot for Richards suggests that the kid brings more than the fans allow. As mentioned by others, the fact that the Pats spent a 2nd on him is no protection-- BB is as unsentimental of his draft picks as anyone in history. He'd gladly give that roster spot to a hardworking UDFA who's earned it.

Just the fact that Richards hasn't been waived to PS at any time in his history with the team puts a floor under how terrible he really is.

In the end, we just don't know. He's an entirely untested quantity.

 

[kennyb]

The irony in your comment. Drafting guys who fall for no reason is game theory smart. Someone will fall almost by definition. Reaching for udfas in the 2nd round is the opposite.

 

[king_ejd]

A couple things I've uttered to friends:

"Jordan Richards sucks."

"He makes Tavon Wilson look like Ronnie Lott. Tavon at least has NFL talent. "

 

[Love The Drake]

Jeez... so many snap judgements.

We had exactly this kind of thread about Edelman, before he step out of the depth chart to become a star. James White, too, who's become a SB hero. Guys get caught on the depth chart all the time. The fact that they are or aren't starting by their 3rd year should not be used as evidence that they suck... not on this team.

Fact is, we don't know how good Richards is because he hasn't been on the field. That's not a negative... that's just inconclusive.

With the depth on the team, quality players were healthy scratches pretty regularly in 2016, including real contributors like Sheard, Amendola, McClellin. It's not nearly as damning to be inactive on a roster with this much talent as it would be on the Jets or the Browns.

I see it this way: if Richards was truly a bust, he wouldn't be on the roster. The quality of the players BB cut to make a roster spot for Richards suggests that the kid brings more than the fans allow. As mentioned by others, the fact that the Pats spent a 2nd on him is no protection-- BB is as unsentimental of his draft picks as anyone in history. He'd gladly give that roster spot to a hardworking UDFA who's earned it.

Just the fact that Richards hasn't been waived to PS at any time in his history with the team puts a floor under how terrible he really is.

In the end, we just don't know. He's an entirely untested quantity.

The fact we locked up Harmon for good money tells us the faith we have in Jordan Richards and when he's on the field he hesitates looks like maybe he is to cerebral the kind of guy who would flourish as a position coach or defensive coordinator but doesn't have the motor to be on a NFL field.
I hope I'm wrong.

 

[DW Toys]

The only way Jordan "Bust" I mean Richards make this 2017 Stacked Squad is "IF" he plays Matthew Slater like on ST's. Richards doesn't offer anything else we can't get from a UDFA or PS Player. He's going to have to earn his keep this time around I am not betting on him.

Can the Mass. House originate a bill that prevents the Pats from talking any DB in the second Round? Especially Safetys?

Sorry...Politically incorrect and offense to say in this State who just approved dope.

Can we call them "Persons of Back Line Matters"?
DW Toys

 

[Kontradiction]

 

[RayClay]

I have no opinion on a guy I haven't seen much, but when he was isolated one time he was soo slow. I mean really slow. Could have had a bad ankle, I don't know.

 

[Mack Herron]

I have no opinion on a guy I haven't seen much, but when he was isolated one time he was soo slow. I mean really slow. Could have had a bad ankle, I don't know.

This is the big weakness I see. He is too slow to cover anyone. Bad quality for a DB. Of course if BB thought that he'd be gone, right?Let's see if he survives this year.

 

[RayClay]

3rd overall 3 cone among DBs, including CBs. 2nd was Eric Rowe.

6.74.

Pats Pulpit article was very complimentary based on relevance of that stat and the 40.

Why Jordan Richards was a Good Draft Pick

 

[reflexblue]

Jordan Richards is the prototypical BB second round head scratcher pick. High character and smart but limited physical ability.

 

[zydecochris]

Oh, I think craziness is exactly what I would expect from an economics major. BB is great at what he does despite the academic indicretions of his youth. My life has described a similar arc. I began as a science/math guy, but once I switched over to the humanities, I began the steady climb to the present godlike status which I, and all who know me, so enjoy.

So, you started out as a science guy, but switched over to the humanities in order to gain greater and greater powers to a godlike status. It seems like I remember some similar story ark in a movie I once saw...

 

[Mack Herron]

3rd overall 3 cone among DBs, including CBs. 2nd was Eric Rowe.

6.74.

Pats Pulpit article was very complimentary based on relevance of that stat and the 40.

Why Jordan Richards was a Good Draft Pick

He preferred Richards to Collins. Oops. Richards had trouble finding the field, while Collins had 125 tackles 25 assists 5 ints and a TD. We don't need to project anymore.

 

[zydecochris]

We have three fine safeties, as good as anyone.

So, there are good reasons why Richards hasn't seen the field much. So, it is indeed possible that Richards is progressing in practice and is ready to be play a major role if Chung is injured, or NOT.

This is his 3rd season. Traditionally, this camp and pre-season is the time to prove his value to the coaches.

BTW, at this point it makes little difference when he was drafted. He will need to compete with UDFA's and JAG free agent signings. It is not even clear whether he is worth carrying even if there is no safety backup other than Ebner and King. If there were two injuries, we would simply move on of the 6 corners to safety.

So: BB has recently drafted (most on this board would say overdrafted) a particular type of college player for safety: sky-high intangibles, extreme positional versatility, and great football smarts. The result has been perhaps the best group of safeties in the NFL in McCourty, Chung, and Harmon. In each case, the player was said to be overdrafted. All three really took quite a bit of time to find their way at safety: Harmon had significant initial growing pains, with McCourty it took a position change several years into his career, and Chung didn't blossom until he left the Patriots, had an unsuccessful stint with the Eagles, and then returned to the Pats.

So to repeat what mgteich pointed out: BB's method of drafting safeties has led to arguably the best group of safeties in the NFL. Even a "failure" like Tavon Wilson (who also developed slowly, notice a pattern?) has achieved some success in Detroit.

....Who knows if Richards will ever succeed, but with BB's (very successful) recent methodology and history in drafting safeties I would think that everybody would have a little more patience.

 

[unoriginal]

Richards was taken with the last pick in the 2nd (#64). There were something like 8-9 safeties taken after him, beginning sometime in the 4th round, IIRC. None of those guys have set the world on fire, even while getting playing time in secondaries that are still looking for safety help.

There were 12 safeties taken after Wilson. I think maybe 3-4 of them ever saw significant snaps on defense, and another 3 never saw an NFL field after rookie camp.

This is worth quoting in full. As always, I consider ****ting all over a pick pointless criticism if nobody shows there was talent at that position still available, either in the particular draft or even in a standard contemporary draft.

As zydecochris just noted, the Pats have a profile for safeties, and they've done very well "reaching" for personnel that fit that profile, which I would define as "the opposite of Brandon Merriweather."

In general:

• 50% of first round picks are busts
• 75% of second round picks never become quality position players
• The NFL is a sophisticated passing league, and secondary players are at a premium
  
• Secondary players at the college level play simple coverages against read option offenses
• Safety play in the NFL is subpar

So one should expect, beyond the typical crapshoot aspect of the draft, that safeties will be overdrafted, and only a very few will become plus players for the teams that drafted them.

The past couple years, and some of the draft guys should chime in on this, between the late second and late third is when quality at the safety position falls off a cliff. You basically cannot use tape at all at this point, everyone looks lost most of the time, and everything is projection based on measurables and intangibles.

Who are all the safeties the Pats missed out on grabbing Tavon Wilson and Jordan Richards?

 

[Deus Irae]

This is worth quoting in full. As always, I consider ****ting all over a pick pointless criticism if nobody shows there was talent at that position still available, either in the particular draft or even in a standard contemporary draft.

You don't overdraft a pile of **** at one position just because the other piles of **** at that position look even worse. At that point, you draft another position. And, just with regards to 2012, George Iloka was on the board.

 

[unoriginal]

You don't draft a pile of **** at one position just because the other piles of **** at that position look even worse. At that point, you draft another position.

If you could get the same thing or better via trade or FA. The supply versus demand curve for NFL safeties is so steep that this is next to impossible. Good safeties have to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is the draft.

Any NFL safeties on the market the past few years you think would be a better value than McCourty, Chung, and Harmon?

Everyone in the NFL is absolutely scrambling for safety play, and the Pats have one of the best units, and have invested reasonable cap space and draft capital to attain it.

And yet people here think they are doing terrible. Not compared to anybody else in the league they're not.

 

[maineman209]

"the opposite of Brandon Merriweather."

LOL! Yup!

The thing is, I'm not entirely sure how much college positional designations matter anymore in the Pats' coverage schemes, especially when it comes to the 5th and 6th DBs on the field.

I mean, yeah, Richards get drafted out of college as a "safety", and he's the same size as Chung with very similar testing numbers. So, there's an implicit assumption that, because he was drafted in the 2nd, BB was looking for a potential starting-caliber safety ("strong safety", at that) to groom as Chung's successor.

But, what if he wasn't? What if he was just looking for a guy who could be the 5th DB in the Big Nickel package (+/- 50% of the snaps). Now, granted, he doesn't appear to have even developed that far, but then, he has had guys ahead of him who've stayed remarkably healthy ... Harmon, in particular, but including both McCourty and Chung, too.

But then, too, there's Rowe. Sure, he's nominally a "CB", but I haven't seen any specific reason why he couldn't be the 5th DB in the Big Nickel.

IDK. I can only speculate. This situation is fluid and positional designations seem to be getting murkier.