More Manning family news: email shows Eli defrauded memorabilia collectors

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Good stats as they are factual but what really annoys me is that Brady and the Pats are 0-5 in their last 5 playoff matchups against the Mannings.

Obviously that isn't everything. I'd rather take 5 Super Bowls overall vs. 5-0 in the last 5 rivalrty matchups, but I'd be lying if I said that stat didn't bug me.

What annoys me is that P. Manning lost every year in the playoffs since 2004 when he would have had to come to New England, and the home/away splits were huge. The Colts lost in 2007 (with arguably their best team in Indy, a total choke job to SD and Billy Volek), 2012 (a total Manning choke job loss to Baltimore), and 2014 (another total Manning choke job to Indianapolis). He lost all three of those games at home and was horrendous in all three. Brady lost in 2006, 2013, and 2015 on Manning's home field. The 2006 and 2013 teams had absolutely no business being here, as Brady carried a bunch of scrubs on offense. The 2015 team was so racked with injuries they couldn't even practice the week of the AFCCG. So, Manning 3, Brady 2 in the postseason? What a joke. Manning is rewarded by perception for vomiting on himself three times when he would have surely lost in Foxboro. Brady is penalized by perception for carrying his undermanned teams into Indy/Denver.

 

[brdmaverick]

So, Manning 3, Brady 2 in the postseason? What a joke.

The bottom line is the home team wins. That's not crazy considering that the home team usually has the best record (and should be the better team) and the home field advantage is strongest during the playoffs.

Even with that being said the 2006 and 2015 teams were good enough to win despite being on the road.

 

[XLIX]

I'm actually disappointed by this story.

As much as I root against the Mannings I've actually respected them. I've only "hated" them because they were the adversary of our own high profile player. My "hatred" was always just about the game. In fact, I've felt that the Mannings have been good for football and the Pats. After all, Batman and the Joker need each other.

The only good coming from this story is to illustrate the hypocrisy of the NFL and media in general.

I just cannot like or respect the Mannings. There is about 1,000 times more evidence Peyton used HGH than anything Brady did wrong, but the media swept it under the rug. And now we have Eli committing fraud against memorabilia collectors, which is pretty scummy.

 

[bormio]

What annoys me is that P. Manning lost every year in the playoffs since 2004 when he would have had to come to New England, and the home/away splits were huge. The Colts lost in 2007 (with arguably their best team in Indy, a total choke job to SD and Billy Volek), 2012 (a total Manning choke job loss to Baltimore), and 2014 (another total Manning choke job to Indianapolis). He lost all three of those games at home and was horrendous in all three. Brady lost in 2006, 2013, and 2015 on Manning's home field. The 2006 and 2013 teams had absolutely no business being here, as Brady carried a bunch of scrubs on offense. The 2015 team was so racked with injuries they couldn't even practice the week of the AFCCG. So, Manning 3, Brady 2 in the postseason? What a joke. Manning is rewarded by perception for vomiting on himself three times when he would have surely lost in Foxboro. Brady is penalized by perception for carrying his undermanned teams into Indy/Denver.

After the last 2 Super Bowls of ours, none of that crap bothers me anymore. Football is hard, and the ball takes funny bounces. Nobody can win them all. The only winning record Brady has yet to attain is surpassing Starr's 5 NFL championships. Love to see him do it.

 

[captain stone]

What annoys me is that P. Manning lost every year in the playoffs since 2004 when he would have had to come to New England, and the home/away splits were huge. The Colts lost in 2007 (with arguably their best team in Indy, a total choke job to SD and Billy Volek), 2012 (a total Manning choke job loss to Baltimore), and 2014 (another total Manning choke job to Indianapolis). He lost all three of those games at home and was horrendous in all three. Brady lost in 2006, 2013, and 2015 on Manning's home field. The 2006 and 2013 teams had absolutely no business being here, as Brady carried a bunch of scrubs on offense. The 2015 team was so racked with injuries they couldn't even practice the week of the AFCCG. So, Manning 3, Brady 2 in the postseason? What a joke. Manning is rewarded by perception for vomiting on himself three times when he would have surely lost in Foxboro. Brady is penalized by perception for carrying his undermanned teams into Indy/Denver.

I'm unsure if you're implying that, had the Fivehead's donkeys not lost at home to the Murderers in the 2102 POs, they would've lost to the Pats in Foxborough. The Pats would've travelled to Denver for the AFCC.

 

[brdmaverick]

I just cannot like or respect the Mannings. There is about 1,000 times more evidence Peyton used HGH than anything Brady did wrong, but the media swept it under the rug. And now we have Eli committing fraud against memorabilia collectors, which is pretty scummy.

Right, and the HGH story is disappointing too. I won't pretend to have followed that all that closely but I suspect you are right that the NFL tried it's best to make it a non story. And you know, I understand that. I get why a league would try to 'protect its brand and image' by downplaying stories of their STARs getting in trouble. Obviously that didn't happen with Brady.

My stance on deflategate has been pretty consistent and it's not about Brady saying he did it or didn't do it..........after all, I could see the Pats or anyteam for that matter doing what he was accused of. My stance has been 'whether the Pats did it or not, it's not a big deal. Even if they did do it there should only be a (quiet) slap on the wrist. Why they would go so far out of their way to publicly prosecute the face of the league is just mind blowing to me.

Unfortunately the same was true in baseball. During the steroid witchhunt, guys like Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez were constantly being interrogated by the media. By the time other names like David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez had suspicions connections, the story was 'old news' and they didn't get crucified like the others.

You're right though, the differing public treatment of star players (whether it be Brady vs Manning or Manny vs AROD), it doesn't seem fair. I woudl think it would be in the best interest for any league to protect their most valuable assets (even if they did wrong doing), but it appears they 'pick and choose'.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I'm unsure if you're implying that, had the Fivehead's donkeys not lost at home to the Murderers in the 2102 POs, they would've lost to the Pats in Foxborough. The Pats would've travelled to Denver for the AFCC.

You're right. My mistake.

 

[1960Pats]

What is there to like about the Mannings?

 

[Pessimistic Pete]

I hate the Giants more than any other team in the league and it's not even close.

More than the Jets. More than the Ravens. More than the Colts.

**** the Giants. John Mara basically runs the NFL.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Right, and the HGH story is disappointing too. I won't pretend to have followed that all that closely but I suspect you are right that the NFL tried it's best to make it a non story. And you know, I understand that. I get why a league would try to 'protect its brand and image' by downplaying stories of their STARs getting in trouble. Obviously that didn't happen with Brady.

My stance on deflategate has been pretty consistent and it's not about Brady saying he did it or didn't do it..........after all, I could see the Pats or anyteam for that matter doing what he was accused of. My stance has been 'whether the Pats did it or not, it's not a big deal. Even if they did do it there should only be a (quiet) slap on the wrist. Why they would go so far out of their way to publicly prosecute the face of the league is just mind blowing to me.

Unfortunately the same was true in baseball. During the steroid witchhunt, guys like Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez were constantly being interrogated by the media. By the time other names like David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez had suspicions connections, the story was 'old news' and they didn't get crucified like the others.

You're right though, the differing public treatment of star players (whether it be Brady vs Manning or Manny vs AROD), it doesn't seem fair. I woudl think it would be in the best interest for any league to protect their most valuable assets (even if they did wrong doing), but it appears they 'pick and choose'.

Ortiz didn't really have much good reason for suspicion around him. The guy was in the majors for the better part of 2 decades, and in that time there was one allegation that he failed a PED test... a test that coincidentally was supposed to be anonymous, and was conducted in such a way that nobody could confirm whether or not he failed it, and such that pretty much any anonymous source could claim that he failed it and there would be no real defense against it because the counterargument is a negative that cannot be proven. If you want to attack someone's credibility with a lie that has virtually no chance of getting exposed, that's exactly how you'd do it.

Let's remember how this story became a thing: a bunch of records relating to an anonymous drug test were illegally seized by the feds during the BALCO trial, and somehow an anonymous source saw those records and stated that David Ortiz was on the (very long) list of players who tested positive. There's no way to verify any of that, so we've now collectively smeared Ortiz over some anonymous guy's statement based on illegally seized data relating to a test that was supposed to be anonymous in the first place. As far as evidence goes, that strains credibility on 3 or 4 different levels. Even the Manning HGH story had multiple parts of it independently verified, which makes it far more credible than any case against Ortiz.

Which isn't to say Ortiz didn't use PEDs. He may have, and my perspective is that he probably did. I assume everyone from that era used them, especially power hitters and power pitchers. But I don't see any reason why he should be regarded with more suspicion than anyone else.

 

[Joker]

**** that moonheaded HGH cheater and his comatose sleazebag brother...two turds in the NFL bowl

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

You forgot about the Giants faking injuries, a widely acknowledged fact around the NFL, during their 2011 run.

Goodell's justice:

Manning's Teams

Manning used HGH in order to return from injury, if not beyond that. Puppet investigation reveals evidence Manning received HGH at his home, league buries story.

Colts guilty of pumping in crowd noise in 2006/2007. Investigation completed within hours and buried.

Colts illegally turn up temperature in 2006 AFCCG. No investigation.

Bill Polian purposely changes pass defensive rules, changing the league forever, in order to get a competitive advantage for his team. No investigation.

Tony Dungy admits the Colts stole signals frequently during his tenure as head coach after comparing the Patriots success as "Barry Bonds" when it happened during the same point in time. Dungy acknowledges that both teams did the same thing, but there was a difference in "how they did it." No investigation.

Steelers

Dodged enormous scandal when their doctor admitted to giving the team illegal substances in the 2000s. No investigation or penalty.

Won Super Bowl XL as the referee later admitted to blowing the game with multiple terrible, biased calls. No investigation.

Mike Tomlin attempted to trip a player running down the sidelines on a live play. 100K fine (1/10 of "DeflateGate"). No draft picks foreited. No team fine.

Emmanuel Sanders fined (less than most fines for accidental hits) for faking injury. 15K fine (less than the fine for an accidental hit to the head.)

Antonio Brown illegally released Facebook Live video of locker room speech. (10K fine (less than a fine for virtually anything else.)

James Harrison implicated for illegal HGH use. Puppet investigation buries story.

Ravens

Ray Lewis widely suspected of using deer antler spray, a banned substance, during 2012 Super Bowl run. No investigation.

Terrell Suggs perpetrates repeated domestic violence against women, with clear and overwhelming evidence. No investigation.

Ray Rice knocks out fiance in elevator, captured on video. After a blatant attempt to sweep it under the rug, Roger Goodell claims he never saw the video and was lied to, while a federal judge tells him he is lying.

Jets

Jets blatantly tamper with Darrele Revis, violating the specific wording of the rule, and then are later revealed to have gone way beyond that, contacting him illegally while Revis was still a member of the Patriots. The Jets then sign Revis hours into free agency. Jets fined 100K. No forfeiture of draft picks. Investigation is not re-opened in light of later reports that their actions went beyond Johnson's words, which would also be punishable by lack of honesty. League strips Chiefs of draft picks later in the same offseason for tampering widely regarded as accepted by an unwritten rule.

Sheldon Richardson drives 143 MPH with marijuana, a loaded gun, and a child in the vehicle. Three league insiders predict he will never play another down in the NFL. Richardson suspended one game. Same penalty as Kevin Faulk in 2008, who was not speeding, did not have a loaded gun, and did not have a minor in the car. Faulk was also a first-time offender and during a time when the personal conduct penalties were much lighter.

Sal Alosi trips opposing player during live play. Alosi suspended for season. No fine or loss of draft picks for team.

Jay Feely caught tampering with K-balls before game. NFL punishes equipment manager but buries any responsibility from Feely or the team. Feely later shows up in Brady's trial to testify about the disparity in how their situations were handled.

Jets illegally film Patriots in 2006, one season before "Spygate." League does not investigate further.

Dolphins

Dolphins extract audio from television broadcast to decode Patriots audibles and playcalls, resulting in a shutout. League makes no changes to protocol despite major competitive disadvantage to teams who play in primetime games with extended audio tracks. John Clayton: "That's football."

And my psychologist was just telling me that I was really making incredible progress on my Patriot Persecution Complex and you had to go and post all of this.

 

[captain stone]

I'm unsure if you're implying that, had the Fivehead's donkeys not lost at home to the Murderers in the 2102 POs, they would've lost to the Pats in Foxborough. The Pats would've travelled to Denver for the AFCC.

You're right. My mistake.

No problem. And I do agree completely: there's no way that Goober comes to Foxborough and wins a PO game. Ever.

 

[1960Pats]

Ortiz didn't really have much good reason for suspicion around him. The guy was in the majors for the better part of 2 decades, and in that time there was one allegation that he failed a PED test... a test that coincidentally was supposed to be anonymous, and was conducted in such a way that nobody could confirm whether or not he failed it, and such that pretty much any anonymous source could claim that he failed it and there would be no real defense against it because the counterargument is a negative that cannot be proven. If you want to attack someone's credibility with a lie that has virtually no chance of getting exposed, that's exactly how you'd do it.

Let's remember how this story became a thing: a bunch of records relating to an anonymous drug test were illegally seized by the feds during the BALCO trial, and somehow an anonymous source saw those records and stated that David Ortiz was on the (very long) list of players who tested positive. There's no way to verify any of that, so we've now collectively smeared Ortiz over some anonymous guy's statement based on illegally seized data relating to a test that was supposed to be anonymous in the first place. As far as evidence goes, that strains credibility on 3 or 4 different levels. Even the Manning HGH story had multiple parts of it independently verified, which makes it far more credible than any case against Ortiz.

Which isn't to say Ortiz didn't use PEDs. He may have, and my perspective is that he probably did. I assume everyone from that era used them, especially power hitters and power pitchers. But I don't see any reason why he should be regarded with more suspicion than anyone else.

Big Poppy put himself in a bad light because he called for the heads of anyone who failed a test. That was when he thought his failed test would remain a secret. At least he didn't blame his wife.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Big Poppy put himself in a bad light because he called for the heads of anyone who failed a test. That was when he thought his failed test would remain a secret. At least he didn't blame his wife.

My main point was that it's still very much up in the air whether or not he ever failed a test in the first place. Some anonymous lawyer claimed he'd seen Ortiz's name on some illegally gathered evidence that was subsequently destroyed. Nobody was ever able to corroborate that anonymous source's claim, and oh by the way even if he had seen what he said he saw, it didn't necessarily mean what he said it meant.

Here is what Rob Manfred, MLB commissioner, said about the whole fiasco:

"The list was supposed to be confidential. I take very seriously the commitment on confidentiality," Manfred said. "It is really unfortunate that anybody's name was ever released publicly, Point 1. Point 2: I don't think people understand very well what that list was.

"There were legitimate scientific questions about whether or not those were truly positives. If, in fact, there were test results like that today on a player and we tried to discipline them, there'd be a grievance over it. It would be vetted, tried, resolved. We didn't do that. Those issues and ambiguities were never resolved because we knew they didn't matter.

"We knew we had enough positives that everyone agreed on that we knew were going to trigger the testing the following year. Even if Rob Manfred's name was on that list, he might have been one of those 10 of 15 where there was probably or at least a very legitimate explanation that did not involve the use of a banned substance."

Even if Ortiz was on the list, being on that list did not indicate that the player in question used a banned substance. The test was not designed to catch cheaters, and therefore false positives weren't a huge concern. They cast a wide net and did not double check their work, because they didn't need to. As long as the results indicated broad use of illegal PEDs in the MLB, it had done its job; didn't matter if it got each individual data point correct.

Understanding what the test was for, what the results communicated, and the dubious nature of the claim that Ortiz even failed the test to begin with is key to understanding why the whole "Ortiz failed a steroid test" argument is stupid, misleading, and arguably just plain wrong.

 

[1960Pats]

My main point was that it's still very much up in the air whether or not he ever failed a test in the first place. Some anonymous lawyer claimed he'd seen Ortiz's name on some illegally gathered evidence that was subsequently destroyed. Nobody was ever able to corroborate that anonymous source's claim, and oh by the way even if he had seen what he said he saw, it didn't necessarily mean what he said it meant.

Here is what Rob Manfred, MLB commissioner, said about the whole fiasco:



Even if Ortiz was on the list, being on that list did not indicate that the player in question used a banned substance. The test was not designed to catch cheaters, and therefore false positives weren't a huge concern. They cast a wide net and did not double check their work, because they didn't need to. As long as the results indicated broad use of illegal PEDs in the MLB, it had done its job; didn't matter if it got each individual data point correct.

Understanding what the test was for, what the results communicated, and the dubious nature of the claim that Ortiz even failed the test to begin with is key to understanding why the whole "Ortiz failed a steroid test" argument is stupid, misleading, and arguably just plain wrong.

I look at Ortiz and Manning as the same. They may or may not have failed tests, we'll never know for sure, but most people feel that they're dirty.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I look at Ortiz and Manning as the same. They may or may not have failed tests, we'll never know for sure, but most people feel that they're dirty.

Did Ortiz also hire a couple of goons to physically intimidate a witness? Use his own wife as a convenient scapegoat for ordering HGH shipments? Or ramp up a smear campaign against a collegr athletic trainer after settling with her for something he supposedly never did?

All these guys will do anything to get a competitive edge. That's expected. However, the incredible hypocrisy and elitism of Mr "Golly Gee I'm Just Like You" is beyond reprehensible. Brady wouldn't even settle a with no admission of guilt if his equipment manager was hung out to dry.

 

[XLIX]

I look at Ortiz and Manning as the same. They may or may not have failed tests, we'll never know for sure, but most people feel that they're dirty.

Neither one officially failed a test. However, it is worth noting that even after formal testing was implemented, Ortiz' level of play remained staggeringly high right up until his final year.

Maybe he was using and got away with it, but that stands in stark contrast to Manning whose level of play went off a cliff once testing was implemented. With Manning, it literally happened in the middle of the season. The NFL started testing in October of 2014, and Manning completely started sucking in November of that same year.

In Denver, Manning had 315 YPG, 114 TD's with 24 INT's up until the month they started testing for HGH in October 2014. After that, he had 255 YPG, 26 TD's with 29 INT's the rest of the way to retirement. The transformation from some of the best quarterbacking the NFL has ever seen to him completely sucking literally happened overnight and in the immediate aftermath of HGH testing being implemented.

 

[qbno12]

He sure has a lot to say for someone who isn't involved

 

[Koma]

He sure has a lot to say for someone who isn't involved

That's a heck of a lot more than he had to say about Josh Brown.

Edit to add: The timing of this statement is odd, also. Eli could have said this a week ago, when the story first broke. What changed since then, the Manning Family goons made the rounds and tied up any loose ends?