Pats still interested in Sherman

[Deus Irae]

This is the sort of post one sees when it is indeed "time to move on." But jimnance isn't the one putting up content-void posts whose intent is nothing other than empty insult. Perhaps you are tired.

No need for jimnance to move on: he's fine right where he is.

Pointing out areas where someone has changed his argument, and pointing to the specific examples, is not "putting up content-void posts".

Have a nice day.

 

[ivanvamp]

Tale of the tape:

Butler
- 5'11", 190 lbs
- 27 years of age
- 2017: Currently an RFA, has been offered a $3.9 million tender by the Patriots
- 2018: UFA, but could be franchised for like $14 million+

Sherman
- 6'3", 195 lbs
- 29 years of age
- 2017: $11.4 million
- 2018: $11.0 million

Both are pro bowl players. Butler is a little quicker. Both are solid against the run. Both are great in coverage. Butler is a great player. Sherman is better.

A straight-up trade, Butler-for-Sherman, would be fascinating. I think both teams might do it. It would solve Seattle's #1 corner situation for years, assuming they work out a long-term deal. The Pats get better in the short-term, over the next two years, especially given the possibility of losing Butler after 2017.

 

[jimnance]

• You don't seem to know what irrelevant means.
• Your argument about "only the last 2 years matter" is ludicrous (4 consecutive pro bowls for Sherman, 2013-2016, for example)
  
• You aren't really making an argument beyond "because I say so", which isn't a "case closed" situation
• If all things were equal, and everyone was happy, I'd prefer Butler (known v. unknown, need to give up assets), but I wouldn't be pretending he's better than Sherman.

Ludicrous? No whats ludicrous is your yet again, ridiculous post.
So what youre saying, is if we're comparing 2 players-we should take 7 years of production for one player and compare that to just 2 years from the other player.
Okay, that makes sense. You want to compare shermans nfl production to butlers high school, college and popeyes production. yes, thats a reasonable comparison.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I get ya, but we need not assume we will franchise him. We might come to terms with him, which would almost certainly make the two-year timeframe you write of cheaper than the equivalent cost for Sherman over the two years. Or - stuff happens: injuries, madness, migration toward the mean - we might just let him go, which, unless we overspend like loons for a veteran replacement - would again certainly be cheaper than the two years of Sherman.

(Also, $3,000,000 ain't nuthin, even for the Krafts!)

I kind of assume we will have to franchise him because it sounds like his agent is an amateur.

I don't think we will get a deal done with him long-term because they're chasing past money too.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Sherman would bring intangibles to the defense as well. His act is all part of his psychological game.

The move would be similar to Rodney Harrison. He's an elite pain in the ass when he's not on your team but a fan favorite if he plays in your colors. They both bring confident ****iness.

This.
At least we don't have to see him twice a year. BB is weighing all his options on Butler. Obviously Pullin Trigger on Gilmore didn't help his cause. It would be cool to keep/pair them in our secondary but if it doesn't workout with MB Sherman would be awesome. BB really wants to mess with nfl*, just for Chitz & Giggles add Revis too.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Antonio Brown says hello.

Do you really think Butler was covering Antonio Brown on an island with no help? Patriots focused their entire defense on shutting down Brown, especially after Bell's injury. It would be dumb to put any single player on Brown (or Jones).

 

[jimnance]

Tale of the tape:

Butler
- 5'11", 190 lbs
- 27 years of age
- 2017: Currently an RFA, has been offered a $3.9 million tender by the Patriots
- 2018: UFA, but could be franchised for like $14 million+

Sherman
- 6'3", 195 lbs
- 29 years of age
- 2017: $11.4 million
- 2018: $11.0 million

Both are pro bowl players. Butler is a little quicker. Both are solid against the run. Both are great in coverage. Butler is a great player. Sherman is better.

A straight-up trade, Butler-for-Sherman, would be fascinating. I think both teams might do it. It would solve Seattle's #1 corner situation for years, assuming they work out a long-term deal. The Pats get better in the short-term, over the next two years, especially given the possibility of losing Butler after 2017.

In a vacuum, its not a bad trade. but it ignores the fact that your top 3 cbs are all tall cbs. though granted, both gilmore and rowe have the measurable quickness on paper to handle the slot. but thats on paper. a top 3 of butler, gilmore,rowe would be more dynamic and able to provide more man coverage(which greatly improves your overall defense)than gilmore,sherman,rowe. both trios would be great tho.

 

[jimnance]

Do you really think Butler was covering Antonio Brown on an island with no help? Patriots focused their entire defense on shutting down Brown, especially after Bell's injury. It would be dumb to put any single player on Brown (or Jones).

Butler played significant one-on one coverge on brown. as brown himself has said-NO ONE in the nfl covers him better than butler. butler has played a lot more man coverage since hes been in the league than sherman.

 

[Kontradiction]

My God, you put Sherman and Gilmore on this team together with McCourty patrolling back there as well and this is the most talented defense Belichick has ever fielded. That said, if the Pats have to give up more draft capital on top of taking on his salary, I'd rather just have them stick with Butler. But if Butler leaves, Sherman is certainly an attractive option.

 

[SEA_Pat]

Sherman here be great but I would worry with Rowe we would almost be too big at CB. Some of the smaller shiftier WRs could really gives us trouble and we would not have the resources to get a guy to fix that after trading for Sherman if he is not already on the roster most likely.

Personally I'd do it for a 2nd not a first. 2 years are what is just a few million below his market value isn't that great a deal.

Ah, but you have forgotten that prior to doing this we cornered the market on small and shifty WRs so there's only one or two left in the league who aren't Patriots. Chess vs. Checkers yet again...

 

[jimnance]

I'm trying to muster up something nice to say as a reasonable response, but this ridiculous thought is just so far over the top that you've stumped me.

Dont let the facts get in the way. Look up the production of both players over 2015-2016. Add in how much man coverage each plays. Butler has been better. its a fact, not an opinion.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ludicrous? No whats ludicrous is your yet again, ridiculous post.
So what youre saying, is if we're comparing 2 players-we should take 7 years of production for one player and compare that to just 2 years from the other player.

No, that's not what I'm saying, at all. However, if someone's been great at something for a longer period of time, that's informative, and it would be ludicrous to ignore it in a case like this.

BTW, from this year, a "down" year for Sherman:

Season stats in coverage: allowed 44 catches on 85 targets for 624 yards, two TDs, four INTs, 64.0 passer rating against.

Year-end cornerback rankings: Richard Sherman lands at No. 1

Okay, that makes sense. You want to compare shermans nfl production to butlers high school, college and popeyes production. yes, thats a reasonable comparison.

You've lost your mind.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Hmmm....

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

To each their own, but the fact there is even a discussion regarding "if MB is moved, Sherman is a target"....All the while having Gilmore already locked in, is nothing short of amazing!

 

[Deus Irae]

Hmmm....

Bidding war - Not a BB thing
Pennies on the dollar - BB's ears perk up

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Got a feeling a team will overpay for Sherman, for simple fear of him potentially landing in New England.
And who ever that team is, will do so before the MB situation is sorted out.

 

[Uptown]

Not saying that this is the main focus at all, BUT 19-0 has to be on someone's mind in that front office/coaching staff .

 

[Uptown]

Get 'er done BB!

 

[kennyb]

What was,the passer rating of qbs against butler? Methinks it was high.

Sherman is amazing, much better than the diminutive butler. Try hard guy but limited.
Yes, it would be nice.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Source: Patriots interested in acquiring Richard Sherman if they lose Malcolm Butler