Sean Payton says Saints won't sign Malcolm Butler to an offer sheet

[1960Pats]

You are correct it is speculation, but several sources have said that he is essentially trying to get UFA money when he is not a UFA. For two reasons, he should be willing to take a big discount if he wants to cash in right now. First, teams don't view the tender year of 2016 as a year they will just rip up and start from scratch; this is just precedent. Second, teams will need to trade for him, and so giving up assets would only make sense if they were going to get a bargain. Otherwise, they would just wait until UFA and not need to worry about that.

No, this is not confirmed, as really nothing is. But it does appear from the outside that Butler's agent does not have realistic expectations. Players typically take pretty deep discounts for a long-term extension before they hit UFA. See the Chris Harris deal or the Rob Gronkowski deal. His asking price, combined with the compensation the Patriots would demand, is making this a non-starter. It would have been a better strategy to set his price low and then let teams compete to set his real market value as a RFA.

I think my skepticism comes from the fact that I can see how easy it is to use the mediots, so I don't trust anything unless I see it spoken or written by the supposed source.

A good example is the Schefter story about the Pats not trading Garoppolo. In spite of that story coming from a reliable person, there are still many here who think it's posturing by Belichick to drive up the price. There's really no way of knowing for sure.

Right now it looks like Butler is just testing the waters, but if he doesn't sign the offer things will change. Until then it seems like a whole lot of nothing.

 

[ausbacker]

Great. I'll happily take Butler at $4 million for this season, add a not fat Revis for the minimum and win #6.

 

[RobertWeathers]

What has his agent done wrong? He's checking out the market for his client and if nothing happens he'll sign here. I don't see the big deal.

We can speculate what he has/hasn't done wrong. I have my opinion which isn't worth much.

With that said, MB is his 1st client and only client. He specializes in personal injury.

If you were Malcolm would you want this ham n egger negotiating your 4/40m deal with a $20m signing bonus?

 

[djs617]

Regarding Butler I just feel like the old saying goes you never know what you have until it's gone he's so used to playing on a winning team with good structure great coach great quarterback now he's just chasing the money and you know who knows maybe he won't be so happy on another team

 

[Ring 6]

Probably the biggest problem is that he hasn't signed his tender yet. If he wants to sit out an entire year and hold out, right in the middle of his prime, then let him.

What is our history with players holding out? I don't seem to remember anybody who chose to sit and hold out.

It's not a problem at all that he hasn't signed his tender.
There is literally no reason that he should have.
When he signs it he forfeits his RFA status. There is no reason to do that until the RFA period is over.
He could do it early if he is certain there is absolutely no market.
Also if he wishes to be traded without signing the tender he can bring the patriots his best deal and the choose between that deal it none but if he has signed the tender the patriots can go and negotiate with all 31 teams and dictate where he is traded.

 

[scott99]

I have a feeling he just plays out the year with the Pat's at 3.9 mill and gets his payday next season, whether from the Pats or someone else. Him playing for the Pats and trying to get a huge pay day next season, bodes really well for the Pats of 2017. I'd be thrilled if he stays this season. BB may just feel a season of Butler is worth more than the #32 pick (which is probably what they ask the Saints for in a trade). I'm also interested to see what we have in Coleman and the 2 Jones boys. And who knows, there are still a few FA corners out there. Tons of moves could still be made.

 

[zydecochris]

We can speculate what he has/hasn't done wrong. I have my opinion which isn't worth much.

With that said, MB is his 1st client and only client. He specializes in personal injury.

If you were Malcolm would you want this ham n egger negotiating your 4/40m deal with a $20m signing bonus?

Agreed.

If you were selling a $40M dollar house, would you use your neighbor, a personal injury lawyer who just got his Real Estate license, when your are his first and only client? Would you really want to put this $40M matter in such inexperienced hands?

Or, if you were having a heart valve replaced, would you use a internal medicine MD who had never replaced a heart valve?

His agent may be the greatest personal injury lawyer in the United States, but Butler needs to at least have someone that has negotiated a big NFL contract before, IMHO.

 

[XLIX]

Agreed.

If you were selling a $40M dollar house, would you use your neighbor, a personal injury lawyer who just got his Real Estate license, when your are his first and only client? Would you really want to put this $40M matter in such inexperienced hands?

If I had a house that no one said could be sold, and my neighbor (a newly minted real estate agent) sold it for a couple million dollars, then yeah I might trust him with my next house, even if it was worth considerably more.

 

[supafly]

Great. I'll happily take Butler at $4 million for this season, add a not fat Revis for the minimum and win #6.

I agree, Aus, although we have a difference of opinions in regard to how much you think Revis will bring in.

I'd actually be okay with Revis too, though, as I think Belichick and company can mask his weaknesses if that's what it comes to. In a perfect world, Butler stays and ends up signing a longer term deal.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Probably the biggest problem is that he hasn't signed his tender yet. If he wants to sit out an entire year and hold out, right in the middle of his prime, then let him.

What is our history with players holding out? I don't seem to remember anybody who chose to sit and hold out.

Mankind held out for a long time and called our management "liars"..eventually New England's front office caved into his demands

 

[Ross12]

Great. I'll happily take Butler at $4 million for this season, add a not fat Revis for the minimum and win #6.

That would be one filthy secondary. Kinda makes me feel like that would be one corner too many though. Rowe is already just fine on the outside when he has some safety help, and I think Cyrus will make a big improvement too, to play as the fourth (maybe third?) CB.

 

[mgteich]

I agree, Aus, although we have a difference of opinions in regard to how much you think Revis will bring in.

I'd actually be okay with Revis too, though, as I think Belichick and company can mask his weaknesses if that's what it comes to. In a perfect world, Butler stays and ends up signing a longer term deal.

Levis might accept a 2-year contract, including no bonus, a 2017 minimum, and guaranteed money for 2018.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

@Ian

I think a good way to kick off this thread is for clarification on the RFA rules, as well as speculation as to whether or not Belichick and Payton discussed Butler previously. Do we have any posters in this board who have strong opinions on either of these topics? I'm sure we can establish an immediate understanding and unanimous conclusion.

(To anyone in the dark on my post, this is a joke because Ian closed the last thread after several arguments that were bound to last until the end of eternity.)

 

[slash83]

Excellent news, keep Butler on and have one of the best defenses if the not best again.

 

[RayClay]

It's not a problem at all that he hasn't signed his tender.
There is literally no reason that he should have.
When he signs it he forfeits his RFA status. There is no reason to do that until the RFA period is over.
He could do it early if he is certain there is absolutely no market.
Also if he wishes to be traded without signing the tender he can bring the patriots his best deal and the choose between that deal it none but if he has signed the tender the patriots can go and negotiate with all 31 teams and dictate where he is traded.

Except, if he brings a deal, he's assuming that team will trade for him. We know this can't happen because teams never discuss trades with unsigned players.

 

[RayClay]

Discussion on reddit:
Sean Payton says Saints won't sign Malcolm Butler to an offer sheet and risk the 11th pick. Will only trade for him. • r/Patriots

He can't say he wants to trade for an unsigned player, can he?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

He can't say he wants to trade for an unsigned player, can he?

MB is not under contract, so yes he can.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

This isn't news, and it doesn't mean the Saints won't end up with him. As others have alluded, the Saints can't sign him to an offer sheet unless they're willing to give up #11, which they clearly aren't. It would be a sign-and-trade: the Patriots would sign him to a contract agreed to by Butler and the Saints, then they would trade him to the Saints. This was always the scenario.

I think it'd be the other way around. We would trade him to the Saints, then the Saints would sign him to a contract.

Any signing bonus associated with the contract would accelerate onto our salary cap if we did it the way you proposed. So let's say he gets a 4-year, $50M deal with $20M signing bonus. That $20M hits our cap right away if we sign him to the deal, then trade. Obviously not a good idea.

The other way, he signs the tender, we trade him, then the Saints sign him to the deal and can smooth it out however they want.

 

[DarrylS]

I'm beginning to believe that Butler really is pissed that neither the Pats or anyone else isn't willing to give him top of the market CB Market. If that's true than he's REALLY getting some bad advice. Mayo has a great take on this on his ex-Pats podcast.

Basically he would like to tell him, to grow up. Sign the tender. Get some insurance to cover your injury risk this season. Play the year like mad, and then go out and break the bank.

According to Jerad, Bultler is acting like he's ENTITLED the big money, and he really isn't. That is NOT the deal the players made. In fact the RFA rules are actually an improvement for the players over the past CBA, in that the tenders are higher and it does allow at least for the possibility of some movement. It took Hightower 5 years to get to FA, what is Butler *****ing about after just 3

I think Butler is a great story, and he's a great player. He's the archetype Patriot player. He's tough, a great tackler, dependable, hardworking and above all skilled at playing his position. BUT he is also wrong in this situation. He isn't wrong to want the money. He's wrong about blaming the Pats for his situation. He's wrong about caring that Gilmore got the money that he wanted. Gilmore is another guy who waited 5 years for he shot at the market. It was not an apples to apples situation.

Very well said, have heard that if he signs the FA Tender he can buy $10 Million insurance for $130K or $20 Million insurance for about $200K(heard that figure from an insurance agent who brokers that type of thing).... insurance $$ is tax free.

He needs to find a competent agent.. to just have a "guy(jag)" represent you in these issues is foolhardy..

Butler is a great player, but there are few teams, if any, willing to pay him more than the $3.9 million he is entitled to under the CBA, then throw in a first round draft pick.

Next year there is close to $80 million dollars in cap room for the Patriots.. this team has come a long way from "two way Troy Brown", Earthland Moreland and the rest of the guys who they picked up off of the street. BB has changed his economic philosophy regarding defensive backfields.. thank goodness.

 

[RayClay]

MB is not under contract, so yes he can.

They can trade a player who isn't under contract?