Building 2017 roster

[luuked]

Here is a great article by Peter King about how the Pats approach FA:

NFL free agency about discipline for Belichick, Patriots | The MMQB with Peter King

I tried to highlight the money quote for me:

“I made some mistakes my first year,” Licht says. “The difference in a player that’s making ‘X’ amount of dollars (higher) to making this much (lower), what’s the difference in his talent level? The Patriots do a great job of saying, The difference in money doesn’t make sense to pay for this difference in talent.”

I am sure @long distance will make a pretty good main forum thread about it soon anyway, but I appreciate the smaller confines of the draft board to discuss stuff like that.

 

[maineman209]

Im still holding out for engram but it seems a lot less likely now.

... especially since Allen, like Engram, seems to be more a Move-TE/H-back type who can play inline (although I don't know much about Engram's blocking prowess). OTOH, having multiple Move TEs on the roster might at least partially address the upcoming slot receiver issue, in a round about way.

Also, if the Pats DO want to add another Move-type as a developmental prospect, it seems like media draft gurus are (so far) sleeping on Jonnu Smith. Smith might be available at the end of the 3rd, or even as late as the 5th. It seems likely that he'd need more time than Engram to become NFL-productive, though.

In terms of size and testing numbers, Engram and Smith are both nearly identical to he-who-must-not-be-named. Minus all the gangster baggage, of course.

 

[manxman2601]

... especially since Allen, like Engram, seems to be more a Move-TE/H-back type who can play inline (although I don't know much about Engram's blocking prowess). OTOH, having multiple Move TEs on the roster might at least partially address the upcoming slot receiver issue, in a round about way.

Also, if the Pats DO want to add another Move-type as a developmental prospect, it seems like media draft gurus are (so far) sleeping on Jonnu Smith. Smith might be available at the end of the 3rd, or even as late as the 5th. It seems likely that he'd need more time than Engram to become NFL-productive, though.

In terms of size and testing numbers, Engram and Smith are both nearly identical to he-who-must-not-be-named. Minus all the gangster baggage, of course.

Jonnu Smith is good.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

IF!!! The Brandin cooks trade happens, we will have our best offense since 07. Probably better.

Free agency hasn't happened yet, and the draft is 50 days away.

Look out.

 

[captain stone]

Still lots of people writing about bb trying to get another wr.

Jackson runs a very limited route tree so I doubt bb goes there.

Did not San Fran release WR Torrey Smith?

Yes they did, and the Eagles just signed him this afternoon.

 

[Sfpat]

I don't see a reason to assume that a TE in round 3 is out of question. Signing Allen just maximized their flexibility to say no if the price to trade up gets too high in case there is a run at TEs.

You still wanna have a younger guy on a rookie contract that you can groom to maybe fill Gronk's shoes in case they move on after this year (if his value is on the upper end again) or if he is not the same.

It's no guarantee that Allen even makes the team in 2017

 

[luuked]

It's no guarantee that Allen even makes the team in 2017

There are no guarantees for anything but given everything we know right now I'd say he has a better chance to make the team than all other TEs whose names don't end with "owski".

 

[maineman209]

There are no guarantees for anything but given everything we know right now I'd say he has a better chance to make the team than all other TEs whose names don't end with "owski".

Pats current TE roster (AFAIK):
Gronk (27) - 6061/265 thru 2019
Allen (27) - 6031/255 thru 2019 ($2.44M roster bonus kicks in on 3/13)
Lengel (26) - 6070/266 thru 2017
Housler (28) - 6050/250 thru 2017
Williams (26) - 6060/270 thru 2017 (not official yet)

Scruggs (26) - 6030/277, unsigned UFA (may have returned to his music career with his buddy Lester Flatt).

I think Lengel may have a chance at a spot on the 53, but the other two seem like Camp bodies at this point. IOW, plenty of room for one or two college prospect acquisitions (including UDFA) over draft weekend.

 

[MSPatsFan28]

2017 Cap Totals
Cap Type Total
2017 NFL Salary Cap $167,000,000
2016 Rollover Cap $5,292,335
Adjustment $1,006,553
Adjusted Salary Cap $173,298,888
Active Contracts $143,311,910
Top 51 $137,746,910
Dead Cap $1,422,690
Total Cap $139,169,600
Cap Space $34,129,288

Above are the current cap numbers for this year. I have gathered this from Miguel Benzan at patscap.com and confirmed with OverTheCap.com. I would post my breakdown, but it is in a spreadsheet and this site does not provide the ability to upload excel files.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Free agent To do list:

Hightower
De
Coverage lb
Rb

 

[long distance]

sorry for abandoning the thread, mea culpa,
but these first days of FA have been just overwhelming.

i hope BB didn’t take the spark of this board away

so, back to roster building business. first, recap of BB FA blitz-krieg so far:
_____


Quick recap of FA through MAR 15


NEW
CB Gilmore, 26* — signed UFA — 5y/65M (31-40M gtd) — 8.6M cap hit
TE Allen, 27 — in trade (4th for 6th) — 3y/17M (5M gtd) — 5M cap hit
RB/ST Burkhead, 26 — signed UFA — 1y/3.1M (1M gtd) — 3.1M cap hit (2018 UFA)
DL/DE Guy, 27 — signed UFA — 4y/13.4M (4.9M gtd) — 2.6M cap hit
WR Cooks, 23 — in trade (1st and 3rd for 4th) — 1.5M cap hit (2018 option 8M)
DE Ealy, 25 — in trade (2nd (64) for 3rd(72)) — 0.9M cap hit (2018 UFA)
TE Housler, 29 — street FA — futures contract — 0.6M cap hit (2018 UFA)
*age at the start of the season

RE-SIGNED/TENDERED
LB Hightower — re-signed — 4y/43.5M (19M gtd) — c. 4.5M cap hit
CB Butler — 1st round tender — (not gtd) — 3.9M cap hit
DT Branch — re-signed — 2y/8.5M (3M gtd) — 3.7M cap hit
S Harmon — re-signed — 4y/17M-20 (6.5M gtd) — 3.5M cap hit
OT Fleming — original round tender (4th) — 1.8M cap hit
FB Develin —re-signed — 2y/2.8M (0.5M gtd) — 1.2M cap hit
S/ST King — tendered ERFA — 0.6M cap hit
CB Coleman — tendered ERFA — 0.6M cap hit
TE Lengel — tendered ERFA — 0.5M cap hit
TE Williams — re-signed — 1y/0.5M — 0.5M cap hit

GONE
CB Ryan — signed w TEN — 3y/30M
DE Sheard — signed w IND — 3y/25.5M (13M gtd)
TE Bennett — signed w GB — 3y/21M (6M gtd)
LB Mingo — signed w IND — 1y/2.5M
DE Long — moves on

IN PROGRESS
RB Blount — wants to return; Pats exploring options
WR Floyd — both were interested in return after SBLI - now ?
RB Bolden — /
TE/DE Scruggs — ?

OTHER
OT Vollmer — released-injury related/retired
WR Amendola - willing to restructure (frees proj. 5M / 6.4M if cut)
QB Garoppolo - will not be traded (acc. to Schefter & Reiss)

_____
2017 Draft picks: 3a (72nd, from CAR); 3b (96th); 4 (132th, from SEA), 5a (163th); 5b (183rd); 6 (200th, from IND); 7 (239th).

Money for current Draft picks -- less than 0.5M (top 51 contracts rule)
_____
Projected comp picks: 4th - Sheard; (4/5th - Bennett (curr. offset by Burkhard)
(note: Gilmore offsets Ryan's comp pick (3rd), Guy offsets Mingo (7th)
_____
c.43M cap spent for 17 players -- (not all counting vs cap: 51 top cap hit rule)

approx Cap remaining: 32M (incl. Amendola restructure(hopefully)/release)
-

66 signed .. 24 to go
____

UPDATED -- Mar 15

 

[maineman209]

I'll take a stab at TE in this "reset".

- Five under contract.
- Only three who seem "likely" to make the 53-man (if you include Lengel).
- Not much of particular interest left available in FA (apparently, there wasn't much of interest to BB from the get-go)

So, I'd expect at least two new faces to appear by the end of draft weekend, probably one draftee. Could be either a big, Gronk-type or a smaller, H-back/move type.

 

[captain stone]

They still need a Move TE; maybe Jonnu Smith in the 5th round.

 

[long distance]

I'll take a stab at TE in this "reset".

- Five under contract.
- Only three who seem "likely" to make the 53-man (if you include Lengel).
- Not much of particular interest left available in FA (apparently, there wasn't much of interest to BB from the get-go)

So, I'd expect at least two new faces to appear by the end of draft weekend, probably one draftee. Could be either a big, Gronk-type or a smaller, H-back/move type.

TE is definitely still alive. Just not a need anymore and that's what BB wants.

0. Id think M Williams could be a safer bet he makes 53 than Lengel. He is coming from IR and was the only E/RFA not tendered but reportedly signed to a deal - unfortunately nothing concrete about the deal is known other than it is supposed to be for 1 y. Then again, the source is Volin..

1. FA - the only way BB could go back to Free Agency is going for a vet minimum TC option that is not UFA (doesn't count against comp pick). I had my eye on Kendricks but actually GB double dipped. Not much left that I know of.

2. Draft - Without need for 2017 (assuming Gronk will be good to go) I see two options:
a) go for the move TE to complement the receiving corps (but with extreme depth and quality of receiving options that might be off - unless you look mostly at 2018)
b) go for the project that can be #1-2 in a couple of years: Shaheen would now be worth the risk in current situation; Hodges they have contacts with; Butt.
c) the usual BB - take the best player/best value available: Leggett is falling down the boards despite good Combine; Michael Roberts will be there late.

3. The guy I want to see in Pats uniform is of course Kittle. Id draft him despite possibility he goes UDFA.

 

[captain stone]

0. Michael Williams sucks. Don't know why you keep bringing up his name. Lengel stands a much, Much, MUCH better chance of contributing than he does.

1. Yeah, I was hoping that Bill would pounce on Kendricks too, especially because he wouldn't count against the compensatory formula.

2. Shaheen might actually be gone as early as our first pick in the 3rd round. Pretty amazing. Even if he weren't, I wouldn't take him there anyway. We need to take the best Pass-Rusher available. In fact, TE is no longer a top-100 priority for me.

3. Depending on how the rest of free agency & the draft goes, I would be more than happy to use a 3rd-day pick (perhaps as early as one of our 5ths) on Kittle, or Jonnu Smith. I would be surprised if Kittle lasts into the post-draft UDFA signings.

 

[maineman209]

TE is definitely still alive. Just not a need anymore and that's what BB wants.

0. Id think M Williams could be a safer bet he makes 53 than Lengel. He is coming from IR and was the only E/RFA not tendered but reportedly signed to a deal - unfortunately nothing concrete about the deal is known other than it is supposed to be for 1 y. Then again, the source is Volin..

1. FA - the only way BB could go back to Free Agency is going for a vet minimum TC option that is not UFA (doesn't count against comp pick). I had my eye on Kendricks but actually GB double dipped. Not much left that I know of.

2. Draft - Without need for 2017 (assuming Gronk will be good to go) I see two options:
a) go for the move TE to complement the receiving corps (but with extreme depth and quality of receiving options that might be off - unless you look mostly at 2018)
b) go for the project that can be #1-2 in a couple of years: Shaheen would now be worth the risk in current situation; Hodges they have contacts with; Butt.
c) the usual BB - take the best player/best value available: Leggett is falling down the boards despite good Combine; Michael Roberts will be there late.

3. The guy I want to see in Pats uniform is of course Kittle. Id draft him despite possibility he goes UDFA.

0. Williams was actually a "semi-binky" of mine back in 2013 when there was a lot of discussion about potential (cheaper) replacements for Hooman (#3/#4 blocking TE who could catch a little). I thought Lengel looked fine in that role in 2016, so I'd guess it's a competition between him and Williams through Camp.

1. Agreed

2. a) For 2017, primary slot receivers seem likely to be Edelman and Cooks with Amendola on the outside looking in, one way or another. Edelman, though, is UFA at the end of the season and will be 32 before the start of the 2018 season (IIRC). Getting a Move TE like Jonnu Smith in this draft could set 2018 up with a Cooks + Smith slot tandem paralleling the Welker + "murdering AHole" tandem of 2010 (minus the homicidal part).
b) & c) BB could go with one of those "big" TEs who falls into Day-3, and Roberts is another "semi-binky" this year, at least partly because I like Kareem Hunt (also from Toledo) as a safe "lead RB" pick.

3. I like Kittle as well. If he or Smith (who has yet to have attracted much attention, it seems) fall into the potential UDFA class, well, that's what 6th and 7th rounders are for - to lock up preferred UDFAs.

 

[long distance]

Minimum contract for M Williams.
So its definitely uphill battle for him, Lengel incl.
If they keep Danny and with obviously RB comittee again it would be hard to imagine 4 TEs..

 

[Gabriel_p94]

What do you guys think of the burkhead signing? I actually like it alot. I think he doesnt get the credit he deserves when it comes to running between the tackles. Especially since he will only be getting maybe 15-20 snaps so he wont get too run down. I think hes someone who can surprise some this year.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Is TE really a need still? I am not sure where the roster spot is going to be at this point?

At this point, we have the following filled
4 wrs + Slater + dola possibly
1 fb
2 TEs

Those are all locks. We also are likely keeping three QBs and a likely 9 linemen.

carrying an extra receiving option seems less likely to me than it did before the cooks deal.

 

[long distance]

Is TE really a need still? I am not sure where the roster spot is going to be at this point?

At this point, we have the following filled
4 wrs + Slater + dola possibly
1 fb
2 TEs

Those are all locks. We also are likely keeping three QBs and a likely 9 linemen.

carrying an extra receiving option seems less likely to me than it did before the cooks deal.

Some tough, heartbreaking decisions this year come 2nd of September. Much tougher even than last year..