Pats reportedly have received a preliminary offer for JG...

[JayNM]

If i knew for certain that Jimmy will become a Top 10 QB in the future, I would never trade him. I would do whatever I could to attain him until after Brady retires.

QBs are scarce commodity, man, if we can't find at least a good one, it will be extremely difficult to win a Super Bowl.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

If i knew for certain that Jimmy will become a Top 10 QB in the future, I would never trade him. I would do whatever I could to attain him until after Brady retires.

QBs are scarce commodity, man, if we can't find at least a good one, it will be extremely difficult to win a Super Bowl.

We will see. I think he can be very good. He learned under the best. I don't think he's matt cassel. The Pats need to get a good package in case he turns out to be a solid QB. I think he can be like a Tony Romo. It's a question of staying healthy and finding a good fit where he will be surrounded by talent.

 

[fnordcircle]

If i knew for certain that Jimmy will become a Top 10 QB in the future, I would never trade him. I would do whatever I could to attain him until after Brady retires.

QBs are scarce commodity, man, if we can't find at least a good one, it will be extremely difficult to win a Super Bowl.

If it was just a money thing I'd be mostly on board with the idea of keeping Jimmy cause he looks awesome and him taking over the reins would be super fun.

But I just don't know how you keep this kid sitting on the bench. That's it. Brady is going to play too long and Jimmy undoubtedly will want his chance to start somewhere.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

A couple of thoughts on this topic

1. While I had to listen to more babble on this topic on the radio, this thought occurred to me. As of now EVERYONE is taking Schecter's report as gospel, as if it came directly from Bill or a surrogate with orders from Bill. Then I started to wonder, if this was reality and the Pats wanted to get the word out that they aren't trading JG under any reasonable circumstances, why give the story to Schecter rather than Reiss or Curran, 2 guys who are known to have close and good relations to the organization. Why give Schecter the big scoop? Just a thought.

Who said it came from Foxboro? I can think of another source with a vested interest.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Belichick and McDaniels have worked with Garoppolo since he came into the League. They have watched him practice every day against one of the best Defenses in the League. They have watched him in Preseason and "Live" games.
They have also both worked closely with Brady for years and, in this case just as importantly, they worked closely with Matt Cassel and Brian Hoyer.
They and only they know what they have in Garoppolo.
And, they ain't tellin'. Nobody.

If they have decided that there is a very high probability (there are no certainties here) that Jimmy Garoppolo is a Franchise Quarterback who can take them to AFC Championship Games and Super Bowls over the next ten or 11 years, there is no way that they will trade him.

If Garoppolo is "The Guy," then there is no rational price for which they would Trade him...that is how hard it is to find a 10 Year Franchise Quarterback in the NFL.

Two first rounders? Three?

Over the last 30 years, 70 Quarterbacks have been drafted in the First Round. I'm not sure exactly how many total First Round picks there were over that period because the League didn't reach its current 32 teams until 15 or so years ago, but it's somewhere around 900 total picks.

Of that 70 from among 900 over thirty seasons, only seven have won Super Bowls...and two of them were named Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco (the others are Aikman, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Roethlisberger and Rodgers).

If you already have your hands on a guy you think could be an Aikman, Peyton Manning, Rodgers or Roethlisberger, you won't let him go for any rational price. And, I think Three first rounders is probably the far upper limit of a price a team might rationally offer.

Of course, if they have decided that Garoppolo isn't "The Guy" but is another pretty good JAG QB, they are going through all of this to drive up the price.

But, as I said above, they ain't tellin'.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

If it was just a money thing I'd be mostly on board with the idea of keeping Jimmy cause he looks awesome and him taking over the reins would be super fun.

But I just don't know how you keep this kid sitting on the bench. That's it. Brady is going to play too long and Jimmy undoubtedly will want his chance to start somewhere.

I hope that avocado ice cream really works for tommy. We will see something unprecedented. I just wanna have a really good backup QB in place. Brissett has alot to improve on.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Belichick and McDaniels have worked with Garoppolo since he came into the League. They have watched him practice every day against one of the best Defenses in the League. They have watched him in Preseason and "Live" games.
They have also both worked closely with Brady for years and, in this case just as importantly, they worked closely with Matt Cassel and Brian Hoyer.
They and only they know what they have in Garoppolo.
And, they ain't tellin'. Nobody.

If they have decided that there is a very high probability (there are no certainties here) that Jimmy Garoppolo is a Franchise Quarterback who can take them to AFC Championship Games and Super Bowls over the next ten or 11 years, there is no way that they will trade him.

If Garoppolo is "The Guy," then there is no rational price for which they would Trade him...that is how hard it is to find a 10 Year Franchise Quarterback in the NFL.

Two first rounders? Three?

Over the last 30 years, 70 Quarterbacks have been drafted in the First Round. I'm not sure exactly how many total First Round picks there were over that period because the League didn't reach its current 32 teams until 15 or so years ago, but it's somewhere around 900 total picks.

Of that 70 from among 900 over thirty seasons, only seven have won Super Bowls...and two of them were named Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco (the others are Aikman, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Roethlisberger and Rodgers).

If you already have your hands on a guy you think could be an Aikman, Peyton Manning, Rodgers or Roethlisberger, you won't let him go for any rational price. And, I think Three first rounders is probably the far upper limit of a price a team might rationally offer.

Of course, if they have decided that Garoppolo isn't "The Guy" but is another pretty good JAG QB, they are going through all of this to drive up the price.

But, as I said above, they ain't tellin'.

They will trade him even if they think he could be a franchise QB for the simple fact that tommy's not retiring after next season. I think they wanna get the best package in case he turns out to be a stud.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Overall I agree with you. However, Brady's current contract makes that very hard to do because of the 2018 cap hit if Brady is cut/traded after the 2017 season.

And given that NE extended Brady's contract (which originally ended after the 2017 season) -- and thus created the situation where JG has to leave after the 2017 season at the latest -- that would seem to at least somewhat indicate that BB doesn't actually believe JG is "the guy".

$14MM in 2018. $7MM in 2019. I'm not saying they would or should do this, but it would be theoretically possible to cut a long term deal with Garoppolo that is heavy on a Cash Bonus prorated over the life of the contract. As I said, I'm not saying they should or would do that, but I don't think the cap hit itself, as it now stands, would be an obstacle if they decided to go in that direction, which I am not saying they should decide.

 

[patfanken]

Belichick and McDaniels have worked with Garoppolo since he came into the League. They have watched him practice every day against one of the best Defenses in the League. They have watched him in Preseason and "Live" games.
They have also both worked closely with Brady for years and, in this case just as importantly, they worked closely with Matt Cassel and Brian Hoyer.
They and only they know what they have in Garoppolo.
And, they ain't tellin'. Nobody.

If they have decided that there is a very high probability (there are no certainties here) that Jimmy Garoppolo is a Franchise Quarterback who can take them to AFC Championship Games and Super Bowls over the next ten or 11 years, there is no way that they will trade him.

If Garoppolo is "The Guy," then there is no rational price for which they would Trade him...that is how hard it is to find a 10 Year Franchise Quarterback in the NFL.

Two first rounders? Three?

Over the last 30 years, 70 Quarterbacks have been drafted in the First Round. I'm not sure exactly how many total First Round picks there were over that period because the League didn't reach its current 32 teams until 15 or so years ago, but it's somewhere around 900 total picks.

Of that 70 from among 900 over thirty seasons, only seven have won Super Bowls...and two of them were named Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco (the others are Aikman, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Roethlisberger and Rodgers).

If you already have your hands on a guy you think could be an Aikman, Peyton Manning, Rodgers or Roethlisberger, you won't let him go for any rational price. And, I think Three first rounders is probably the far upper limit of a price a team might rationally offer.

Of course, if they have decided that Garoppolo isn't "The Guy" but is another pretty good JAG QB, they are going through all of this to drive up the price.

But, as I said above, they ain't tellin'.

Even if EVERYTHING you speculate on here were true, the fact here is that the logistics simply don't work. UNLESS the Pats are ready to move one from Brady after the 2017 season. They just don't Garapolo wants to play and isn't going to sign to be Brady's back up for even one more year. The Pats are NOT going to commit over $45MM of cap space on the QB position.

And there are other things to consider. Regardless of how good we THINK JG is, he is NOT going to be as good a QB as Tom Brady over the next 3 years. Even a physically diminished Tom Brady 2 or 3 years from now is going to be better than JG, simply because he can't duplicate almost 20 years of starting experience.

Most of the time a player's progression is NOT always a straight line one, where they get incrimentally better each year at the same rate. You can point to a few bump in the road seasons over the course of his long career. Cam Newton went from 15-1 an MVP he deserved, to mediocre and out of the playoffs. He didn't forget to play football over those 2 seasons, but that is the nature of the game. Two steps forward, one step back.

I would be surprised if Brady will be quite as good this year. How do you improve on a 14-1 record and 28-2 TDs/picks. It would be unrealistic to even expect him to. That's not to say he won't be good. You can still be very good without winning the MVP (and that's what Brady would have done had he played 16 games)

BTW- this is me trying to explain why Brady will be the best QB we can put on the field over the next 3 years, EVEN if someone figured out a way to keep JG that long.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Even if EVERYTHING you speculate on here were true, the fact here is that the logistics simply don't work. UNLESS the Pats are ready to move one from Brady after the 2017 season. They just don't Garapolo wants to play and isn't going to sign to be Brady's back up for even one more year. The Pats are NOT going to commit over $45MM of cap space on the QB position.

And there are other things to consider. Regardless of how good we THINK JG is, he is NOT going to be as good a QB as Tom Brady over the next 3 years. Even a physically diminished Tom Brady 2 or 3 years from now is going to be better than JG, simply because he can't duplicate almost 20 years of starting experience.

Most of the time a player's progression is NOT always a straight line one, where they get incrimentally better each year at the same rate. You can point to a few bump in the road seasons over the course of his long career. Cam Newton went from 15-1 an MVP he deserved, to mediocre and out of the playoffs. He didn't forget to play football over those 2 seasons, but that is the nature of the game. Two steps forward, one step back.

I would be surprised if Brady will be quite as good this year. How do you improve on a 14-1 record and 28-2 TDs/picks. It would be unrealistic to even expect him to. That's not to say he won't be good. You can still be very good without winning the MVP (and that's what Brady would have done had he played 16 games)

BTW- this is me trying to explain why Brady will be the best QB we can put on the field over the next 3 years, EVEN if someone figured out a way to keep JG that long.

Lots of moving pieces.
Lots of unknowns.
However one looks at it, the Pats are in an enviable position.

 

[fnordcircle]

However one looks at it, the Pats are in an enviable position.

Man the hand wringing over this would indicate otherwise.

 

[PP2]

Even if EVERYTHING you speculate on here were true, the fact here is that the logistics simply don't work. UNLESS the Pats are ready to move one from Brady after the 2017 season. They just don't Garapolo wants to play and isn't going to sign to be Brady's back up for even one more year. The Pats are NOT going to commit over $45MM of cap space on the QB position.

And there are other things to consider. Regardless of how good we THINK JG is, he is NOT going to be as good a QB as Tom Brady over the next 3 years. Even a physically diminished Tom Brady 2 or 3 years from now is going to be better than JG, simply because he can't duplicate almost 20 years of starting experience.

Most of the time a player's progression is NOT always a straight line one, where they get incrimentally better each year at the same rate. You can point to a few bump in the road seasons over the course of his long career. Cam Newton went from 15-1 an MVP he deserved, to mediocre and out of the playoffs. He didn't forget to play football over those 2 seasons, but that is the nature of the game. Two steps forward, one step back.

I would be surprised if Brady will be quite as good this year. How do you improve on a 14-1 record and 28-2 TDs/picks. It would be unrealistic to even expect him to. That's not to say he won't be good. You can still be very good without winning the MVP (and that's what Brady would have done had he played 16 games)

BTW- this is me trying to explain why Brady will be the best QB we can put on the field over the next 3 years, EVEN if someone figured out a way to keep JG that long.

This post is a WINNER. Thank you for being the voice of reason. I'm tired of people assuming JG picks up right where Brady leaves off. That's just not going to happen.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

This post is a WINNER. Thank you for being the voice of reason. I'm tired of people assuming JG picks up right where Brady leaves off. That's just not going to happen.

Big strawman there. No one is assuming "JG picks up right where Brady leaves off".

 

[varjao]

Look at the newsfeed, Mitch Trubinsky wants to be known as Mitchell, guy haven't even been drafted yet and is demanding things.

 

[Bledsoehasaring]

Yet, in the trades you mentioned, that is exactly what the teams did.. They traded for their guy AND Paid him.

Jared Goff - Jared Goff
4yr/27M deal for a guy with no experience.

RG3 - Quarterback Robert Griffin III signs four-year, $21 million contract with Redskins

4yr/$21 contract for a guy with no experience.

Garoppolo has 1.5 games of experience and proved to be excellent in those games. Not to mention that he was good in training camp as well.

Furthermore, you're overlooking the fact that, at least in the case of the Browns, they have a significant number of extra draft picks this year and next as well as $110 million in salary cap space in which they MUST use 98M of it..

You disagree with me and then say that goff getting a 4 year 27 million dollar deal is paying him? Thats a rookie contract. You cant get chase daniels for that money man. Come on you have to do better than that. We arent even remotely talking about the same thing. Jimmy g if he gets traded will sign a five year 80-100 million dollar contract. That is getting paid in the nfl.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Belichick and McDaniels have worked with Garoppolo since he came into the League. They have watched him practice every day against one of the best Defenses in the League. They have watched him in Preseason and "Live" games.
They have also both worked closely with Brady for years and, in this case just as importantly, they worked closely with Matt Cassel and Brian Hoyer.
They and only they know what they have in Garoppolo.
And, they ain't tellin'. Nobody.

If they have decided that there is a very high probability (there are no certainties here) that Jimmy Garoppolo is a Franchise Quarterback who can take them to AFC Championship Games and Super Bowls over the next ten or 11 years, there is no way that they will trade him.

If Garoppolo is "The Guy," then there is no rational price for which they would Trade him...that is how hard it is to find a 10 Year Franchise Quarterback in the NFL.

Two first rounders? Three?

Over the last 30 years, 70 Quarterbacks have been drafted in the First Round. I'm not sure exactly how many total First Round picks there were over that period because the League didn't reach its current 32 teams until 15 or so years ago, but it's somewhere around 900 total picks.

Of that 70 from among 900 over thirty seasons, only seven have won Super Bowls...and two of them were named Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco (the others are Aikman, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Roethlisberger and Rodgers).

If you already have your hands on a guy you think could be an Aikman, Peyton Manning, Rodgers or Roethlisberger, you won't let him go for any rational price. And, I think Three first rounders is probably the far upper limit of a price a team might rationally offer.

Of course, if they have decided that Garoppolo isn't "The Guy" but is another pretty good JAG QB, they are going through all of this to drive up the price.

But, as I said above, they ain't tellin'.

That is a pretty good summary of the situation. Only 5 of 70 First Round QBs produced a Super Bowl win. That's about a 7% chance of a First Rounder working out. Stuff your possible First Round pick where the sun don't shine.

Garrapolo is a much better shot at being a franchise QB. He was highly rated as a second round pick, (some had him as a First Rounder), who has ALREADY demonstrated, at the NFL level, a winning mentality, an extremely fast Marino like release, and very good short and intermediate accuracy, and arm good enough to at least get a shot as the next Patriots franchise QB.

Kraft and BB are no fools. They will spend money to keep him, through the 2018 season at least.

 

[borg]

Teams are not shipping high picks for Jimmy and letting him play out his rookie deal. They want cost certainty now and want to lock him up.

Although not the ideal scenario for any team that values harmony between player and team, any team that trades for Garoppola is guaranteed 3 years of cost control at a very reasonable average cost of $18 mill / year
year 1 (2017).......$800k
year 2 (2018)......$23 mill (franchised)
year 3 (2019)......$30 mill (franchised)
_________________________
3 year total........$54 mill.............$18 mill /year average

The beauty of this strategy from the new team's perspective:

1) No signing bonus required in any year
2) Team can cut losses with no forward cap damage

No doubt, the year 3 ...$30 mill salary is excessive....but a team could use cap savings from prior years to help fund year 3. Set aside a sizable chunk of $$$ in 2017 when JG only costs $800k

On another note, Felger and Maz are pounding the table saying Jimmy G should not play ball with NE and allow himself to be traded to a crap team this year. They insist he should wait until next offseason and get to free agency when the team choice will be his alone.
F & M...confirming their idiots status
More important than the reality that NE can tag JG next year thereby controlling his destiny for an extra year, think about the damage JG will do to his bank account while getting a year older and not starting.
The choice...make a lot of money now and be a starter...or....sit and make $800k and maybe sit again the following year. How old will he be then?
How many agents are going to recommend sitting and making peanuts vs starting and getting rich.
Who knows what the Pats are planning....but the notion that JG would postpone a major opportunity potentially available to him this year ....no way.

 

[pdangle]

By now, we are all familiar with both (all?) sides of this debate. PF has been very thorough.

What's even more interesting? How BB the GM chooses to play his hand! This is new territory. It's gonna be fun.... or boring.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Although not the ideal scenario for any team that values harmony between player and player, any team that trades for Garoppola is guaranteed 3 years of cost control at a very reasonable average cost of $18 mill / year
year 1 (2017).......$800k
year 2 (2018)......$23 mill (franchised)
year 3 (2019)......$30 mill (franchised)
_________________________
3 year total........$54 mill.............$18 mill /year average

The beauty of this strategy from the new team's perspective:

1) No signing bonus required in any year
2) Team can cut losses with no forward cap damage

No doubt, the year 3 ...$30 mill salary is excessive....but a team could use cap savings from prior years to help fund year 3. Set aside a sizable chunk of $$$ in 2017 when JG only costs $800k

On another note, Felger and Maz are pounding the table saying Jimmy G should not play ball with NE and allow himself to be traded to a crap team this year. They insist he should wait until next offseason and get to free agency when the team choice will be his alone.
F & M...confirming their idiots status
More important than the reality that NE can tag JG next year thereby controlling his destiny for an extra year, think about the damage JG will do to his bank account while getting a year older and not starting.
The choice...make a lot of money now and be a starter...or....sit and make $800k and maybe sit again the following year. How old will he be then?
How many agents are going to recommend sitting and making peanuts vs starting and getting rich.
Who knows what the Pats are planning....but the notion that JG would postpone a major opportunity potentially available to him this year ....no way.

Although not the ideal scenario for any team that values harmony between player and player, any team that trades for Garoppola is guaranteed 3 years of cost control at a very reasonable average cost of $18 mill / year
year 1 (2017).......$800k
year 2 (2018)......$23 mill (franchised)
year 3 (2019)......$30 mill (franchised)
_________________________
3 year total........$54 mill.............$18 mill /year average

The beauty of this strategy from the new team's perspective:

1) No signing bonus required in any year
2) Team can cut losses with no forward cap damage

No doubt, the year 3 ...$30 mill salary is excessive....but a team could use cap savings from prior years to help fund year 3. Set aside a sizable chunk of $$$ in 2017 when JG only costs $800k

On another note, Felger and Maz are pounding the table saying Jimmy G should not play ball with NE and allow himself to be traded to a crap team this year. They insist he should wait until next offseason and get to free agency when the team choice will be his alone.
F & M...confirming their idiots status
More important than the reality that NE can tag JG next year thereby controlling his destiny for an extra year, think about the damage JG will do to his bank account while getting a year older and not starting.
The choice...make a lot of money now and be a starter...or....sit and make $800k and maybe sit again the following year. How old will he be then?
How many agents are going to recommend sitting and making peanuts vs starting and getting rich.
Who knows what the Pats are planning....but the notion that JG would postpone a major opportunity potentially available to him this year ....no way.

Those idiots are clueless.

Your financial scenario is what I was getting at in an earlier post. While I think teams want cost certainty and roster stability at the most important position, they also don't want to be the Texans and have a ****ty QB they are on the hook to pay another $18m to sit on the bench and have a bad cap situation to boot.

I agree on the $30m...I would think if Jimmy is kicking butt he'll be locked up after Year 2

 

[fightingirish595]

Realistically as soon as #12 is involved you can forget any future first round pick from the Browns.

If you really want one for 2018 (and I do) I'd be happy about 33, 56 and next year's first conditionally where it downgrades to a 2nd if Jimmy doesn't reach whatever goal (10 games played, blah).

With a draft so deep I'd rather have multiple additional picks in the top 50 than a #12 where it's not clear how easy it will be to trade down from.

a second and a first next year will do for me, If we every got the first pick, Thats eithe Sam Darnold or a draft haul we havent seen in years. thats a win/win