Browns coaches try to get front office shakeup

[Froob]

This I am very interested to see play out, I don't understand why in sports the GMs get a faaaaaaaar longer leash than the head coach.

Happens a lot in the NBA, Fred Hoilberg probably will be fired because of a ridiculous roster his GM put together and Jeff Hornacek lost his job few years ago after his GM ruined the team with a poor mix of players then gave em away for crap (traded Isaiah Thomas for basically nothing lol).

Then we see Chip canned for winning two games with an absolute horrendous roster. Just how many games was he supposed to win? Joe Staley and Carlos Hyde are the only two good players on that team that I can think of (although I think Kaepernick low key had a solid year too).

From the sounds of it, we will probably see Sean Payton go (I think Payton is overrated but he's still a good coach) before Mickey Loomis who is one of the worst GMs in the league (and he's part of the Pelicans horrendous management too).

 

[Froob]

Also worth to mention that Pagano seemed to be getting more heat for his job than Grigson. Grigson is probably the worst in the league at his job. Can only blame Pagano so much (he's certainly not great though there is fair criticism), Grigson can't draft worth ****. Can't think of one good defensive player he's drafted.

 

[fightingirish595]

Owners probably have better relationships with GMs than coaches. just a guess. Easy for the GM to throw the coach under the bus and say something like he is not devwloping my draft picks

 

[Froob]

Owners probably have better relationships with GMs than coaches. just a guess. Easy for the GM to throw the coach under the bus and say something like he is not devwloping my draft picks

You'd think they'd be smarter than that though lol. Guess not. Also looks like Irsay might be smartening up

Irsay could be inclined to keep Pagano, fire Grigson

 

[Mike the Brit]

I have never understood why, in the U.S., professional sports teams have a personnel guy (the GM) in authority over the coach. There's no rational justification. Baseball?

 

[Froob]

I have never understood why, in the U.S., professional sports teams have a personnel guy (the GM) in authority over the coach. There's no rational justification. Baseball?

Hm so you'd have everyone like Bill, you'd have a guy like Caserio do a lot of the dirty work but the coach gets final say? Would seem to make more sense.

 

[Ring 6]

Hm so you'd have everyone like Bill, you'd have a guy like Caserio do a lot of the dirty work but the coach gets final say? Would seem to make more sense.

That system fails just as often as the split GM HC arrangement.
It's a dilemma. It's too much work for most men but they alternative is coaching groceries you didn't pick.

The best scenario is a belichick the second best is a GM and HC that work together well.

 

[zydecochris]

You'd think they'd be smarter than that though lol. Guess not. Also looks like Irsay might be smartening up

Irsay could be inclined to keep Pagano, fire Grigson

No, no, no!! We may need to start a "Keep Grissom, he is the greatest" petition to circulate to Irsay. Surely we can get plenty of Patriot fans to sign, no? Grigson is the gift (to other teams) that keeps on giving.

 

[nabwong]

That system fails just as often as the split GM HC arrangement.
It's a dilemma. It's too much work for most men but they alternative is coaching groceries you didn't pick.

The best scenario is a belichick the second best is a GM and HC that work together well.

The thing is most coaches can't count beyond 10 fingers. Belichick has an economics degree. He understands the cap. The other coaches are probably terrified of the cap.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I thought what the Browns were trying to do was very interesting.

The bring in Sashi Brown from a big-time Boston law firm to run the FO.

Then they bring in Moneyball guru Paul DePodesta

They bring in Harvard guy Andy Berry who was Dir Pro Personnel w/ the Colts.

There is no shortage of brain power in CLE but there is a big time gap in football acumen.

 

[Deus Irae]

Browns coaches to push owner Jimmy Haslam for front office changes

If this is true, Browns coaches should be fired.

 

[Deus Irae]

I have never understood why, in the U.S., professional sports teams have a personnel guy (the GM) in authority over the coach. There's no rational justification. Baseball?

Long term v. short term

 

[Ring 6]

The thing is most coaches can't count beyond 10 fingers. Belichick has an economics degree. He understands the cap. The other coaches are probably terrified of the cap.

Come on. I get BB is the goat but NFL HCs are not dumb.

 

[Mike the Brit]

That system fails just as often as the split GM HC arrangement.
It's a dilemma. It's too much work for most men but they alternative is coaching groceries you didn't pick.

The best scenario is a belichick the second best is a GM and HC that work together well.

I don't completely buy the argument about too much work. I know that BB is exceptional in being both obsessive about wanting to be involved in scouting (Jermaine Cunningham over Carlos Dunlap!) and being very savvy about the business side of the NFL. Still, I can't see why a Head Coach can't delegate just as he delegates coaching the O-Line.

But the idea that the GM BOTH makes essential personnel decisions that determine the success of the team AND has the Head Coach report to him seems ridiculous to me.

Take the Texans' decision to go all-in on Brock Osweiler. That's a dreadful decision that ought to cost someone their job. Did B O'B make it? Or Rick Smith? Smith, apparently, has final say over everything football at the Texans. So you have someone working for you who benches the guy you have spent $17m or whatever it was on. It can't be healthy. At the least, have a VP of football operations, like Elway at the Broncos, who can sort that kind of thing out.

 

[Ring 6]

I thought what the Browns were trying to do was very interesting.

The bring in Sashi Brown from a big-time Boston law firm to run the FO.

Then they bring in Moneyball guru Paul DePodesta

They bring in Harvard guy Andy Berry who was Dir Pro Personnel w/ the Colts.

There is no shortage of brain power in CLE but there is a big time gap in football acumen.

So far they get an incomplete.
Accepting their fate this year to build for the future was smart. But they have to do the right thing with the rebuild otherwise they are in the same place they have always been.

I think they are taking an unemotional, value matters approach and intend to build a deep roster rather than chasing stars and that will result in success

 

[Ring 6]

I don't completely buy the argument about too much work. I know that BB is exceptional in being both obsessive about wanting to be involved in scouting (Jermaine Cunningham over Carlos Dunlap!) and being very savvy about the business side of the NFL. Still, I can't see why a Head Coach can't delegate just as he delegates coaching the O-Line.

But the idea that the GM BOTH makes essential personnel decisions that determine the success of the team AND has the Head Coach report to him seems ridiculous to me.

Take the Texans' decision to go all-in on Brock Osweiler. That's a dreadful decision that ought to cost someone their job. Did B O'B make it? Or Rick Smith? Smith, apparently, has final say over everything football at the Texans. So you have someone working for you who benches the guy you have spent $17m or whatever it was on. It can't be healthy. At the least, have a VP of football operations, like Elway at the Broncos, who can sort that kind of thing out.

im not sure having one guy or another to blame is the key to success.
Most coaches work insane hours just to coach the team. And that includes "coaching the coaches"
Most good coaches have flamed out when they get total control. Whatever the reason it is the history.

 

[nabwong]

Come on. I get BB is the goat but NFL HCs are not dumb.

If the state of their franchise is the reflection of their work, then.....

 

[convertedpatsfan]

When Hue was coaching the Raiders, there was speculation that he had a direct line of reporting to the owner only, and not the GM. They were on equal footing in the hierarchy.

With the Raiders under Al Davis never using contracts for anyone in the front office, it’s unlikely that Jackson’s contract stipulates that he reported to anyone but Al Davis. The next question becomes whether Jackson’s contract contains language that would require him to report to a G.M. or some other employee who may be hired upon the passing of Al Davis. If not, the coach and the G.M. would have separate straight-line reporting obligations to Mark Davis.

This latest report adds some more credibility to that earlier report, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's looking for a similar set-up in Cleveland, especially since the Raiders got the idea from Lerner when he owned the Browns.

BTW, there should be massive red flags and sirens blaring when you decide to steal an idea from the old Browns...

 

[Ring 6]

If the state of their franchise is the reflection of their work, then.....

So every other team in the NFL is a bunch of morons and we are the bestest ever?

 

[slam]

Take the Texans' decision to go all-in on Brock Osweiler. That's a dreadful decision that ought to cost someone their job. Did B O'B make it? Or Rick Smith? Smith, apparently, has final say over everything football at the Texans. So you have someone working for you who benches the guy you have spent $17m or whatever it was on. It can't be healthy. At the least, have a VP of football operations, like Elway at the Broncos, who can sort that kind of thing out.

You know, I kind of disagree. I think a sign of a healthy franchise is the ability to take big swings like the Osweiler deal but to be able to move on when it's obvious on the field there's a better solution without recriminations. Seattle did it with Flynn/Wilson. We did it with Brady/Bledsoe. Ozzie Newsome acquired Kyle Boller with the picks that would become Wilfork and
Bethel Johnson, a firing offense if anything was. If Tom Savage becomes a good QB, that should be a win for everyone involved.