Matt Chatham - Need to get Back to Basic Execution

[luuked]

If the coaching staff sees a run stuffing LB as a 3 down player, that's still a coaching problem, not an execution problem. It's actually much more of a concern if the coaches think a part time player is a full time player than it is if the coaches just have a bad game of calls/substitutions.

Oh I am not disagreeing with how you see Roberts. Just pointing out that it might not have been a substitution mistake but part of the plan. However flawed that plan might be.

The amount of snaps he was in the last two games indicates to me that they might actually think he is capable of going 3 downs. I am not sure I agree with but gotta give them the benefit of doubt a few more games.

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh I am not disagreeing with how you see Roberts. Just pointing out that it might not have been a substitution mistake but part of the plan. However flawed that plan might be.

The amount of snaps he was in the last two games indicates to me that they might actually think he is capable of going 3 downs. I am not sure I agree with but gotta give them the benefit of doubt a few more games.

If it's part of the plan, that's scheme.

Choice of defense
Choice of personnel
Choice of play

That's all scheme

 

[PrairiePat]

I liked most of this, but I'm not sure it all boils down to 'defender X went to sleep on this play'.

The Chung play, for example - he's clearly playing the underneath zone (he lets 2 receivers go past him early in the play, correctly). Now he's supposed to know to cover deep when the crosser comes in behind him? How does that work? And why didn't the middle defenders pick up the crosser? They were both focused on the short receiver in the middle, while the deep crosser jogged through wide open behind them. Had Wilson seen him earlier, we'd be talking about one of them as the culprit. Scheme or personnel?

The blitzing thing is a red herring. There were at least 2 other receivers open on that play. So basically 3 receivers beat their man coverage, and there were no rubs, or picks or anything like that. Do we blame the blitz scheme? I don't think so.

I mostly agree with his overall point, though - the DBs have to play better. No scheme will fix a defense with personnel that can't cover anyone. I think these guys have the talent, hopefully it was just a focus thing after a bye week.

 

[Tunescribe]

They allowed 17 points to Buffalo outside of garbage time. The starting QB was 19-38-183. Please explain how 50% complete and less than 10 yards per COMPLETION and 4.8 per attempt is a defense not playing well?
Pittsburgh scored 16 points. And that includes 2 drives that started in NE territory. Were do I find 'showed vulnerability' on the scoreboard?
I get that you wish they allowed 16 points a different way, but allowing 16 points is good defense.

Of course whatever is happening the goal is to improve, but the alarmist attitude around here after 1 bad game and the desire to dismiss good games is annoying.

Andy: defense involves more than defending the pass. In their first five games the Patriots allowed an average of 86.4 yards rushing, in the last four they have allowed an average of 119.3. The Bills rushed for 167 yards on Oct. 30 (6.4 avg.); Seattle amassed 420 yards including 96 rushing yards (3.7 avg.) which probably would've been more had they not been able to throw on the Pats' zone at will. The Steelers out-gained the Patriots and dominated the clock. Granted, points allowed is the only stat that matters and you can throw out everything else if you want, but the recent trends -- including lack of pass rush and porous secondary -- are worrisome. There is time to fix it, I hope they do.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy: defense involves more than defending the pass. In their first five games the Patriots allowed an average of 86.4 yards rushing, in the last four they have allowed an average of 119.3. The Bills rushed for 167 yards on Oct. 30 (6.4 avg.); Seattle amassed 420 yards including 96 rushing yards (3.7 avg.) which probably would've been more had they not been able to throw on the Pats' zone at will. The Steelers out-gained the Patriots and dominated the clock. Granted, points allowed is the only stat that matters and you can throw out everything else if you want, but the recent trends -- including lack of pass rush and porous secondary -- are worrisome. There is time to fix it, I hope they do.

Sure run D matters but when you put up 41 and play that kind of pass D, you win regardless of run D. And regardless of what statistics could make you otherwise think, they allowed 17 points outside of garbage time.
Pittsburgh scored 16. Yards that don't equal points don't cost you football games.
Every game is its own game. The point is to win, not to be pretty. If you sacrifice one thing to take away something else, and the result is you don't allow points and win, it was a good job. To point to a statistic that is one of the contributing factors to the result as dispute of the result is inane.

Let me put in another way. If at any given time, you had the choice of the Patriots defense over a 6 game span allowing 17 plus a garbage time TD by backups against backups with 30 seconds left and a 24 point lead, in one game and 0,17,13,16,16 in the other 5 there would be no need to add any qualifiers to that to say I would take it without question.

 

[Tony2046]

I just think that these players have given up playing hard for Belichick. They knew weeks ago when
they were given low ball extension offers that they would be elsewhere in 2017.

Tom Jackson? Is that you?

 

[VrabelJr]

Mic drop.

 

[PP2]

All of which leads me to wonder, could it be that the D simply just choked?

 

[Ring 6]

All of which leads me to wonder, could it be that the D simply just choked?

Bye week, personnel grouping changes, style of offense they always have the most trouble with. Choke no but had a bad game, maybe so.

 

[PP2]

Bye week, personnel grouping changes, style of offense they always have the most trouble with. Choke no but had a bad game, maybe so.

With the exception of Roberts, all the other players have had a good few years in the system. There's no way they're still having "trouble" with it at this point.

Seattle did do a nice job by going empty and bunching up on us. Maybe they noticed a weakness on our D.

But it's hard to deny that the void that Collins left has had a psychological effect, at least for the short run. In the long term, it was the right thing to do as what Collins did went against BB's philosophy that no player is bigger than the team, and the "just do your job" ethos he preaches.

The other thing I'm thinking of is that Roberts, as good as he is playing, is still a rookie. And as we know the defense starts with the backer corp- all the initial communications come from them. It wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that he missed quite a number of cues.

 

[borg]

I just don't get how the "just play better / do better" strategy solves problem #1 on defense...lack of talent. A weak schedule can mask a lot, but sooner or later, winning one on one battles will decide games.

 

[jimnance]

I just don't get how the "just play better / do better" strategy solves problem #1 on defense...lack of talent. A weak schedule can mask a lot, but sooner or later, winning one on one battles will decide games.

Disagree on the talent. The Dts are solid, branch has been mostly very good, valentine has played well; brown has been decent-hasnt stepped it up like we thought he would from an excellent rookie year-but theres time. Flowers obviously has promise. dont know whats going on with sheard. he was hands-down the best edge rusher on the pats last year, been pretty invisible this year. But Hightower is an elite player-not just one of the best at his position-one of the best defensive players in the nfl. roberts has big potential. mccourty one of the best at his position. ditto chung. ditto butler. evn w/o jones and collins-there arent 10 other nfl defenses with more talent. But theyre all dealing with having to make major adjustments in the middle of the season. sheard had to deal with not only no more jones-but no more nink-due to his suspension and injuries. hes had to play opposite what amounts to a rookie-albeit a goodlooking one. that takes time. losing collins affects the entire d. i 100% drink the BB koolaid-i suspect we dont know the whole story behind trading collins-bb even protects players he dumps-he wont say anything negative about them-but i got a feeling there was stuff we dont know. The 2 weakest d areas are obviously cb after malcolm and depth at de. dont know how you overcome depth problem. even if sheard steps it up and flowers keeps getting better-theyre going to get worn out. dont know if we'll see nink much. theres always hope but im not optimistic about him. id be thrilled if he could come back playoff time and be his old self. no answer for the #2 and #3 cbs. just hope they keep competing. But the sked is weak, only denver and miami present problems. its almost like the pats d is back in preseason mode-but with the schedule-theres time to adapt. the best passrusher on the team is hightower from the interior. flowers has done some interior rushing as well. that could be one way of increasing pressure and covering up the cb flaws. Pressure is not something the pats will need much the rest of regular season-but they will need it playoff time. So i wouldnt be surprised to see BB experiment some with it over the next 7 games to get them ready.

 

[fnordcircle]

I think this is gonna be a great thread to necro in February.