The more time that goes on, the more I have trouble rooting for Kraft

[Armchair Quarterback]

Time, money, the appeal itself, your respect.....the latter of which I'm sure he cares little.

If by your words, Bob Kraft doesn't care about the fans respect than why should you?

 

[OhExaulted1]

Please explain how
1) Filing an appeal
2) Conducting your own investigation and review of the Wells report
3) Reaching out to the other owners and showing them convincing evidence that there was no wrongdoing

defies reason.

1) To face an egomaniacal narcissist with delusions of granduer who's punishment was silently applauded by many of his other 31 bosses.
2) They did: The Wells Report in Context
3) see 1)

See above. That is recourse. Since you have no idea whatsoever what the result would be, you have no clue that its a waste of time, and if it turned out to be, it would have been a worthwhile attempt anyway because of the gravity of the penalty.
Is your argument now that Robert Krafts time is move important than fighting for reversing the punishment that was not deserved?

Given Goodells response to Brady's appeal how do you see it as worthwhile? After Brady wins this appeal would be good time to strike back. I'm hoping he does.

Who has said they hate the owner. Is it your position that you either agree with everything someone does or you hate them?
He handled this horribly. I lost a lot of respect for him, but mostly I feel he showed that all of his 'I care about the fans' rhetoric is just that. My opinion is not colored by hatred, I imagine I never said a negative thing about him before he botched this, at least outside of his poor handling of Spygate.
You argument is like saying if my dog pisses on the carpet I need to accept that or I hate him and have to get rid of him. It is a very shallow viewpoint.

How many of the other 31 owners do you respect? Jus sayin'. And if your dogs pissing on the carpet you might want to take him out more often or arrange for someone else to help you do so. Training a dog to piss outside isn't rocket science.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

That recourse of course being to appeal to Mr. Judge, Jury and Executioner with the insistance of many of the other jealous and spiteful other 31 to uphold said appeal. If banging your head pointlessly against a wall is another "recourse", I guess you'd have a point.

You mean banging your head pointlessly against a wall like:

- Brady's 4 game ban being overturned by a federal judge.
- Ben Roethlisberger's 6 game suspension being reduced to 4 games by Goodell himself.
- All of the Bountygate suspensions being overturned by Goodell's appointment.
- Dashon Goldson and Ndamukong Suh's suspensions reduced to fines by Goodell.
- Ray Rice's indefinite suspension being overturned by an independent arbiter.
- Adrian Peterson's suspension overturned in federal court?

You telling me Kraft, with scientific evidence couldn't have pushed this? Made a public case so Goodell couldn't have upheld the punishment. Appeal it just to make them uncomfortable. Threaten and pressure them into defending their lies and conspiracies. Make them defend the indefensible and let them bury themselves.

Kraft didn't because being part of that group of petty, vindictive creeps is more important to him than the team itself or the fans.

 

[OhExaulted1]

You mean banging your head pointlessly against a wall like:

- Brady's 4 game ban being overturned by a federal judge.
- Ben Roethlisberger's 6 game suspension being reduced to 4 games by Goodell himself.
- All of the Bountygate suspensions being overturned by Goodell's appointment.
- Dashon Goldson and Ndamukong Suh's suspensions reduced to fines by Goodell.
- Ray Rice's indefinite suspension being overturned by an independent arbiter.
- Adrian Peterson's suspension overturned in federal court?

You telling me Kraft, with scientific evidence couldn't have pushed this? Made a public case so Goodell couldn't have upheld the punishment. Appeal it just to make them uncomfortable. Threaten and pressure them into defending their lies and conspiracies. Make them defend the indefensible and let them bury themselves.

Kraft didn't because being part of that group of petty, vindictive creeps is more important to him than the team itself or the fans.

You came up with 6 instances of suspensions being reduced and overturned and not 1 instance of draft pick penalties being reduced or returned. Do you follow the logic?

Aside from that this sentence would be more about making people feel better. That and the league office is filled with narcissistic sociopaths that are incapable of feeling uncomfortable. They've taken this embarressment all the way to the appeals process in federal court. These idiots at 345 Park Ave have no concept of what shame or remorse is.

 

[IllegalContact]

You mean banging your head pointlessly against a wall like:

- Brady's 4 game ban being overturned by a federal judge.
- Ben Roethlisberger's 6 game suspension being reduced to 4 games by Goodell himself.
- All of the Bountygate suspensions being overturned by Goodell's appointment.
- Dashon Goldson and Ndamukong Suh's suspensions reduced to fines by Goodell.
- Ray Rice's indefinite suspension being overturned by an independent arbiter.
- Adrian Peterson's suspension overturned in federal court?

You telling me Kraft, with scientific evidence couldn't have pushed this? Made a public case so Goodell couldn't have upheld the punishment. Appeal it just to make them uncomfortable. Threaten and pressure them into defending their lies and conspiracies. Make them defend the indefensible and let them bury themselves.

Kraft didn't because being part of that group of petty, vindictive creeps is more important to him than the team itself or the fans.

No.....because Kraft is required to follow a completely set of agreements than the players

I believe that Kraft cannot legally sue the NFL....no owner can do so legally

Comparing what a player can do to an owner has zero relevance.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

You came up with 6 instances of suspensions being reduced and overturned and not 1 instance of draft pick penalties being reduced or returned. Do you follow the logic?

Aside from that this sentence would be more about making people feel better. That and the league office is filled with narcissistic sociopaths that are incapable of feeling uncomfortable. They've taken this embarressment all the way to the appeals process in federal court. These idiots at 345 Park Ave have no concept of what shame or remorse is.

The only draft picks taken under Goodell's watch have been the 2 firsts and the 5th taken from the Pats, the Saints 2nd and 3rd for Bountygate and three 5th rounds or less for tampering or pumping in crowd noise, so there's not exactly a whole lot to base it on. However, a million dollars and a 1st round pick for being more probable than not of being generally aware of something that has been scientifically disproven is an absurd punishment that you don't accept lying down....Apparently you would though because fighting it would be hard.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

No.....because Kraft is required to follow a completely set of agreements than the players

I believe that Kraft cannot legally sue the NFL....no owner can do so legally

Comparing what a player can do to an owner has zero relevance.

The league's constitutional bylaw's prohibit it, but he could still sue in court after exhausting all appeals, which he gave up immediately.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I believe that Kraft cannot legally sue the NFL....no owner can do so legally

Robert Kraft can still sue Roger Goodell and the NFL, says Sports Illustrated legal analyst

You see, when you write things that just aren't true, you lose credibility. Even though McCann acknowledges it might not be the best option and is "nuclear", it is definitely an option.

You have consistently referred to the Brady situation and the Player's Union as the completely different from the owner's. In actuality, it's not that different. The Player's Union negotiated a collective bargaining agreement, which is much like a constitution, and they've agreed to abide by the agreement. The problem is that when they feel they have been injured and that the agreement has been violated, they can go to court to resolve the issues. Likewise, the owners also signed a binding agreement amongst each other, but they are also free to go to court to resolve issues if they feel they were wronged and that such a wrong violates the written agreement or the nature of their agreement. The US Courts are open to anyone unless they've agreed to go to mediation in their agreement, and even then, there are few instances where courts refuse to hear a case. This is the justice system we are talking about. I am not sure if you understand contract law, since you seem to think that having an agreement with the other owners precludes one owner from claiming the agreement was violated.

The difference is that the writing in the owner's agreement is likely much tighter, with extremely little wiggle room to win, and to sue the league would be almost like Brady suing the Player's Union itself - that is, an organization of which he is a member. It would make it unlikely that Kraft would prevail in a lawsuit, but as many have pointed out, it's not about winning or losing, it's about standing up for what's right.

Either way, you might want to educate yourself on the actual facts and options before you repeat yourself another 500 times with the exact same points, some of which are factually false.

 

[IllegalContact]

Robert Kraft can still sue Roger Goodell and the NFL, says Sports Illustrated legal analyst

You see, when you write things that just aren't true, you lose credibility. Even though McCann acknowledges it might not be the best option and is "nuclear", it is definitely an option.

You have consistently referred to the Brady situation and the Player's Union as the completely different from the owner's. In actuality, it's not that different. The Player's Union negotiated a collective bargaining agreement, which is much like a constitution, and they've agreed to abide by the agreement. The problem is that when they feel they have been injured and that the agreement has been violated, they can go to court to resolve the issues. Likewise, the owners also signed a binding agreement amongst each other, but they are also free to go to court to resolve issues if they feel they were wronged and that such a wrong violates the written agreement or the nature of their agreement. The US Courts are open to anyone unless they've agreed to go to mediation in their agreement, and even then, there are few instances where courts refuse to hear a case. This is the justice system we are talking about. I am not sure if you understand contract law, since you seem to think that having an agreement with the other owners precludes one owner from claiming the agreement was violated.

The difference is that the writing in the owner's agreement is likely much tighter, with extremely little wiggle room to win, and to sue the league would be almost like Brady suing the Player's Union itself - that is, an organization of which he is a member. It would make it unlikely that Kraft would prevail in a lawsuit, but as many have pointed out, it's not about winning or losing, it's about standing up for what's right.

Either way, you might want to educate yourself on the actual facts and options before you repeat yourself another 500 times with the exact same points, some of which are factually false.

Actually it is that different.......if you don't realize what the differences are, then that explains the stance you have.....which is relatively tiny and petty

So Kraft.....knowing he can't win should waste a bunch of time and money to please some really tiny and petty people......gotcha

move on with your disdain of the owner however ridiculous as it may be.....

 

[IllegalContact]

The league's constitutional bylaw's prohibit it, but he could still sue in court after exhausting all appeals, which he gave up immediately.

for draft picks? are you ****ting me? Kraft is going to spend millions in legal fees to lose a case in order to please a bunch of yahoos...........good one

all because perception and 1.00 can get you a coffee at cumbies

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Actually it is that different.......if you don't realize what the differences are, then that explains the stance you have.....which is relatively tiny and petty

So Kraft.....knowing he can't win should waste a bunch of time and money to please some really tiny and petty people......gotcha

move on with your disdain of the owner however ridiculous as it may be.....

Suing in court would be the last step, not his only option. First step would be to appeal, which he choose not to do.

 

[IllegalContact]

Suing in court would be the last step, not his only option. First step would be to appeal, which he choose not to do.

Suing in court would not be the last step...........the next step would be dealing with all 31 other owner as though he were Al Davis.......and he's not and never will be

he would stand to lose all of the power/influence, and it is likely that taking his lumps in front of all the other owners even if he doesn't deserve it, and come out unscathed is much more important than a handful of yahoos on a pats message board.......

I believe your opinion on this is not agreed to by the overwhelming majority.......there are plenty of fans that would prefer to look forward to next season rather than keep kicking this corpse around

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

for draft picks? are you ****ting me? Kraft is going to spend millions in legal fees to lose a case in order to please a bunch of yahoos...........good one

all because perception and 1.00 can get you a coffee at cumbies

Part of the punishment was already a million dollar fine, which he pretty freely accepted and if it did actually make it to court, he would most certainly win due to lack of any actual evidence.

 

[IllegalContact]

Part of the punishment was already a million dollar fine, which he pretty freely accepted and if it did actually make it to court, he would most certainly win due to lack of any actual evidence.

it would never get past the due process set by the agreement with the NFL Kraft made becoming an owner in the league.

if you can produce a precedent of what you expect Kraft to do, I'll listen

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Suing in court would not be the last step...........the next step would be dealing with all 31 other owner as though he were Al Davis.......and he's not and never will be

he would stand to lose all of the power/influence, and it is likely that taking his lumps in front of all the other owners even if he doesn't deserve it, and come out unscathed is much more important than a handful of yahoos on a pats message board.......

I don't believe your opinion on this is not agreed to by the overwhelming majority.......there are plenty of fans that would prefer to look forward to next season rather than keep kicking this corpse around

Any power and influence he may have had at one time went away when he allowed himself to be pushed around like this. They pushed him back and he surrendered without a fight. He finally got his wish...he is now truly just one of the 32.

 

[PrairiePat]

Kraft's mistake was his very vocal support of the Omissioner's numerous arbitrary punishments over the years. He set himself up a spot where he couldn't complain about the punishment when the hammer swung in the Pats' direction again - otherwise he'd look like quite the tool. Now he looks like a tool anyhow.

A lot of us hated this long term pattern of support way before DeflateGate ever happened. He propped up a bad hire and ultimately paid the price for that support, unfortunately for us fans.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

it would never get past the due process set by the agreement with the NFL Kraft made becoming an owner in the league.

if you can produce a precedent of what you expect Kraft to do, I'll listen

1st step is to appeal.

Maybe you could expound on the reasons why you think it would never get past the agreement if he chose to go that route instead.

 

[IllegalContact]

1st step is to appeal.

Maybe you could expound on the reasons why you think it would never get past the agreement if he chose to go that route instead.

you first.....let me know the last time an owner sued the league over loss of draft picks and/or a fine

it is too late for him to appeal

 

[IllegalContact]

If by your words, Bob Kraft doesn't care about the fans respect than why should you?

this is easy........because I don't give a **** what Kraft thinks of me......which is reciprocated by the fact that I think the whole notion of rooting for/against the owner is silly

 

[OhExaulted1]

The only draft picks taken under Goodell's watch have been the 2 firsts and the 5th taken from the Pats, the Saints 2nd and 3rd for Bountygate and three 5th rounds or less for tampering or pumping in crowd noise, so there's not exactly a whole lot to base it on. However, a million dollars and a 1st round pick for being more probable than not of being generally aware of something that has been scientifically disproven is an absurd punishment that you don't accept lying down....Apparently you would though because fighting it would be hard.

You forgot the 2 instances of tampering where forced draft pick swaps were enforced. Of course the Jets tampering with Revis was met with less penalty (the $100k joke) If you need any evidence that Roger treats NE completely different then the other 31 here it is:

Kraft was up against a stacked deck:
https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows....edia Resources/7.29.15 petition to vacate.pdf
lll. Because the Competitive Integrity Policy has never been given to players, no player in NFL history has ever been disciplined---or even investigated-for violating this Policy, let alone for being generally aware of someone else's violation of this Policy. Rather, only Clubs and Club personnel have been subject to discipline tlereunder. For example, in 2009, the NFL suspended a member of the New York Jets equipment staff after he "attempted to use unapproved equipment to prep the K[icking] Balls prior to" a Jets game against the New England Patriots. NFLPA Ex.209 at l. According to the NFL in imposing the discipline, the equipment personnel's"attempt to use unapproved materials to prep the Klicking] Balls could [have] easily be[en] interpreted as an attempt to gain a competitive advantage." 1d. However, the Jets' |icker-the player who could have benefitted from the alleged ooattempt to gain a competitive advantage" (id.)-was not investigated, let alone disciplined. tlr'g Tr. 25A:7-12 (Vincent). This was perfectly consistent with the Competitive Integrity Policy's application to Clubs, not players, as well as the fact that even if the Jets kicker was "generally aware" of the infraction, general awareness is not a basis for discipline.6 ll2. The only other two incidents conceming potential ball tampering in recent years similarly resulted in no player investigation or player discipline. On November 30, 6 The Award states that "[t]here was no evidence of any player involvement" in this situation, NFLPA Ex.2lO, Award at 15, but fails to acknowledge that there was also no League investigation of any player involvement. 37 CASE 0:15-cv-0316

The Jets were fined $9,600 for the incident. I now it's total BS, but Kraft can't sue without HUGE risk:
3) The league bylaws [3.11(C)] prevent members of the league from seeking damages due to a decision by the commissioner and the league.

4) This would isolate Kraft from the other franchises because he would effectively be suing the other owners.

5) If the Patriots circumvent the bylaws, 8.13(B)(1) would allow the other owners on the Executive Committee (the owners he would be suing) to force Kraft to forfeit his franchise if they receive 24 votes.
DeflateGate: Why Robert Kraft Had to Give Up

Stamping feet and screaming to the heavens still won't appease the soap-box 20/20 hindsight keyboard evangelists here anyway even when shown reason.

If only posters here were able to seperate perception from fact and reality. Of course, just like our picks, that's unlikely to happen.

Roger Goodell unfairly stole draft picks from the Patriots. Kraft did not just "give" them away. It's just plainly not as simple as that.