The more time that goes on, the more I have trouble rooting for Kraft

[Armchair Quarterback]

Entertain me. How did Kraft mis-handle Spygate?

Took the punishment lying down. Franchise offered no defense. Franchise offered no explanation.

Why do you think Dallas and Washington didn't sue over cap penalties? Over-spending in an
uncapped year??? Jones and Snyder weren't happy with their penalties. There is no recourse
for owners would be the answer.

They appealed. They didn't sue largely because Kraft pressured them not to. Part of the reason Kraft had few sympathizers when getting railroaded by the league was Kraft helping Goodell pressure the other teams to accept punishment(s). He backed himself into a corner and they were all too happy to give him a taste of his own medicine. Once again the good of the NFL trumped the good of the Patriots for Kraft. An all too common theme.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Took the punishment lying down. Franchise offered no defense. Franchise offered no explanation.


They appealed but didn't sue largely because Kraft pressured them not to. Part of the reason Kraft had few sympathizers when getting railroaded by the league was Kraft helping Goodell pressure the other teams to accept punishment(s). He backed himself into a corner and they were all too happy to give him a taste of his own medicine. Once again the good of the NFL trumped the good of the Patriots for Kraft. An all too common theme.

Right on the money.

 

[Ring 6]

Why do you think Dallas and Washington didn't sue over cap penalties? Over-spending in an
uncapped year??? Jones and Snyder weren't happy with their penalties. There is no recourse
for owners would be the answer.

They appealed. Kraft chose not to.

 

[archstanton543]

Why do you think Dallas and Washington didn't sue over cap penalties? Over-spending in an
uncapped year??? Jones and Snyder weren't happy with their penalties. There is no recourse
for owners would be the answer.

Those long-winded anti-Kraft guy's are not going to listen to reason. They'll never get that if teams are penalized they have no recourse other than to ask the Commish nicely to lower the punishment. That's it. Forgoing that step is not capitulation. It's just not wasting your time.

If these guys really hated the owner that much, they'd stop watching the team he owns. But these guys won't so it's not worth arguing about it.

 

[patsfaninpa]

They appealed. Kraft chose not to.

How did that work out?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

How did that work out?

Let's see...

-Federal Court agreed to hear case because Brady appealed within league, which was a prerequisite to seeking any justice outside of the NFL system.
-Mistake by Goodell during appeal of not allowing testimony from Jeff Pash cited as a key reason the suspension was overturned.
-Mistake by Goodell during appeal in making a "quantum leap" of logic in embellishing Brady's role cited as key reason the suspension was overturned.
-Mistake by Goodell during appeal whereby he lied about the conversation between Brady and Jastremski cited as key reason the suspension was overturned.
-Possibility that even if upper courts disagree with Berman, the suspension will still be overturned since Goodell may be ruled as a biased arbitrator during appeal.

 

[Deus Irae]

Those long-winded anti-Kraft guy's are not going to listen to reason. They'll never get that if teams are penalized they have no recourse other than to ask the Commish nicely to lower the punishment.

It's not that they don't get it. It's that you are wrong in your claim of there being no other recourse.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Let's see...

-Federal Court agreed to hear case because Brady appealed within league, which was a prerequisite to seeking any justice outside of the NFL system.
-Mistake by Goodell during appeal of not allowing testimony from Jeff Pash cited as a key reason the suspension was overturned.
-Mistake by Goodell during appeal in making a "quantum leap" of logic in embellishing Brady's role cited as key reason the suspension was overturned.
-Mistake by Goodell during appeal whereby he lied about the conversation between Brady and Jastremski cited as key reason the suspension was overturned.
-Possibility that even if upper courts disagree with Berman, the suspension will still be overturned since Goodell may be ruled as a biased arbitrator during appeal.

I was talking about Wash and Dallas. Not Brady

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I was talking about Wash and Dallas. Not Brady

My mistake...sorry.

 

[patsfaninpa]

It's not that they don't get it. It's that you are wrong in your claim of there being no other recourse.

Yeah, Goodell might have sided with Krafty...LOL

 

[Ring 6]

How did that work out?

It worked out that we lost a 1st and 4th without an objection.

 

[Ring 6]

I was talking about Wash and Dallas. Not Brady

So since one appeal was lost, no one should ever repeal? Because the case and the facts were all the same right?

 

[Ring 6]

Those long-winded anti-Kraft guy's are not going to listen to reason.

Please explain how
1) Filing an appeal
2) Conducting your own investigation and review of the Wells report
3) Reaching out to the other owners and showing them convincing evidence that there was no wrongdoing

defies reason.

They'll never get that if teams are penalized they have no recourse other than to ask the Commish nicely to lower the punishment. That's it. Forgoing that step is not capitulation. It's just not wasting your time.

See above. That is recourse. Since you have no idea whatsoever what the result would be, you have no clue that its a waste of time, and if it turned out to be, it would have been a worthwhile attempt anyway because of the gravity of the penalty.
Is your argument now that Robert Krafts time is move important than fighting for reversing the punishment that was not deserved?

If these guys really hated the owner that much, they'd stop watching the team he owns. But these guys won't so it's not worth arguing about it.

Who has said they hate the owner. Is it your position that you either agree with everything someone does or you hate them?
He handled this horribly. I lost a lot of respect for him, but mostly I feel he showed that all of his 'I care about the fans' rhetoric is just that. My opinion is not colored by hatred, I imagine I never said a negative thing about him before he botched this, at least outside of his poor handling of Spygate.
You argument is like saying if my dog pisses on the carpet I need to accept that or I hate him and have to get rid of him. It is a very shallow viewpoint.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah, Goodell might have sided with Krafty...LOL

The chance of that was better if Goodell was presented with an independent report that refuted the Wells report and the other 31 owners also were met with and given that report to prove nothing had actually happened, so the majority of his 32 bosses understood the Wells report, which he based his entire decision on was a piece of crap.

See people here rip Goodell for not knowing the Wells report is crap. While we all understand why, Wells and Exponent put up experts defending the report as pristine and error free. Goodell hired Wells to tell him if a violation occurred. Wells said it did. How do you expect Goodell to not 100% take Wells report as fact if Kraft and the Patriots DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO REFUTE IT.

 

[IllegalContact]

The chance of that was better if Goodell was presented with an independent report that refuted the Wells report and the other 31 owners also were met with and given that report to prove nothing had actually happened, so the majority of his 32 bosses understood the Wells report, which he based his entire decision on was a piece of crap.

See people here rip Goodell for not knowing the Wells report is crap. While we all understand why, Wells and Exponent put up experts defending the report as pristine and error free. Goodell hired Wells to tell him if a violation occurred. Wells said it did. How do you expect Goodell to not 100% take Wells report as fact if Kraft and the Patriots DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO REFUTE IT.

actually, Goodell hired Wells to validate Goodell's assertion that a violation took place........there's no 'if' in there

 

[sb1]

Those long-winded anti-Kraft guy's are not going to listen to reason. They'll never get that if teams are penalized they have no recourse other than to ask the Commish nicely to lower the punishment. That's it. Forgoing that step is not capitulation. It's just not wasting your time.

And it's not wasting the owners time either to make a strong statement saying he disagrees with the decision by the league and the commissioner, that he knows Brady and the team is 100% innocent of what they're accused of, that they are not and never will be cheaters, and he will do whatever it takes to fight this because the team is being unjustly punished.

Maybe he never sues the league but at least the statement is out there and put doubt in the minds of anyone who wants to think this team cheated to win a Super Bowl last year.

Instead he chose to meekly roll over....which had the opposite effect. Perception is reality. If the public thinks this team has a tainted Super Bowl then yes this team has a tainted Super Bowl. It sucks but that's the way it is. And a lot of that is on Kraft.

That's not hating that's pointing out what should have been done. He should have known better.

 

[RayClay]

Let's see...

-Federal Court agreed to hear case because Brady appealed within league, which was a prerequisite to seeking any justice outside of the NFL system.
-Mistake by Goodell during appeal of not allowing testimony from Jeff Pash cited as a key reason the suspension was overturned.
-Mistake by Goodell during appeal in making a "quantum leap" of logic in embellishing Brady's role cited as key reason the suspension was overturned.
-Mistake by Goodell during appeal whereby he lied about the conversation between Brady and Jastremski cited as key reason the suspension was overturned.
-Possibility that even if upper courts disagree with Berman, the suspension will still be overturned since Goodell may be ruled as a biased arbitrator during appeal.

Wrong. The players union accused goodell of unfair labor practices. brady is merely a player with a union.

 

[Ring 6]

actually, Goodell hired Wells to validate Goodell's assertion that a violation took place........there's no 'if' in there

Perhaps your opinion is correct, but that is all the more reason to try to do something about it. If Wells was given a predetermined result, that is more reason for Kraft to conduct his own investigation and communicate his concerns and findings to Goodells other 31 bosses.

 

[Ring 6]

Wrong. The players union accused goodell of unfair labor practices. brady is merely a player with a union.

Not correct.
The NFL filed suit to confirm the arbitration penalty. Neither Brady nor the NFLPA sued the NFL.

 

[Ring 6]

And it's not wasting the owners time either to make a strong statement saying he disagrees with the decision by the league and the commissioner, that he knows Brady and the team is 100% innocent of what they're accused of, that they are not and never will be cheaters, and he will do whatever it takes to fight this because the team is being unjustly punished.

Maybe he never sues the league but at least the statement is out there and put doubt in the minds of anyone who wants to think this team cheated to win a Super Bowl last year.

Instead he chose to meekly roll over....which had the opposite effect. Perception is reality. If the public thinks this team has a tainted Super Bowl then yes this team has a tainted Super Bowl. It sucks but that's the way it is. And a lot of that is on Kraft.

That's not hating that's pointing out what should have been done. He should have known better.

It would not have been wasting his time to do any or all of the following either:

1) When asked if he expected Brady to play week 1, he could have said some version of Yes or Something is wrong with this league if he doesn't, or he is innocence so of course he should play, rather than saying "I think everyone who deserves to play should play"
2) When Brady asked him to testify in the arbitration hearing as a character witness he could have said yes instead of no
3) If he didn't want to cut his vacation short, he could have hurried from the airport to the hearing to testify.
4) If that was too much trouble, he could have answered Yes when asked to testify by phone instead of the NO he gave.

I don't think any of those things would have been a waste of time, particularly considering it is still going on.

And those are just with regard to supporting Tom Brady even AFTER he quit defending the franchise.