The more time that goes on, the more I have trouble rooting for Kraft

[IllegalContact]

What?
I said he did nothing to fight the penalty, and you pull up something done after he stated that he accepts the penalty and will not appeal, and that's cherrypicking? Do you understand what that term even means?

I don't hate Kraft at all. I hate the way he handled this situation. Of course since you can't argue the points I am making with any semblance of intelligence you are forced to go with "Yo dude, don't be a hater".

Please feel free to find any other comments I have ever made that were negative about Kraft other than this issue. But, you know they don't exist.

you don't like him.....they way you talk about him now proves it......first kind to cut and run

 

[IllegalContact]

Kraft accepting punishment for something that never happened or at the very least was not proven was not in the best interests of the Patriots. It was in the best interest of Kraft personally, the NFL Office and the other 31.

Everything Kraft does is in the best interest of the Patriots..........some of you are just too thick to see it

 

[IllegalContact]

He had no options that were both best for the franchise and best for 'the 32'.
He chose 'the 32'.
He can do that if he wants, but that doesn't mean he didn't screw the fans. It also means his pandering comments about caring about the fans, etc are disingenuous.

you say that because you don't like him

 

[Ring 6]

you're not making a single valid point......you have zero basis to say anything you're saying....you're a fricking dog barking at a parked car

Your responses make less and less sense as they progress.
The point is that Kraft should have fought the penalty, which is a penalty for a crime that was not committed.
You seem to think that it makes sense to accept a penalty for something you did not do, and not even object.

Please explain your basis for why it is best to take that penalty without any effort to appeal. There simply is no valid reason from the perspective of what is best for the New England Patriots which is why you post crap like this instead of making the point you wish you had.

 

[Ring 6]

you say that because you don't like him

And you know that is not true. I say that because it is what happened.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Everything Kraft does is in the best interest of the Patriots..........some of you are just too thick to see it

And some are too desperately in need of attention by playing the contrarian on every topic to see that's not true.

 

[Ring 6]

Everything Kraft does is in the best interest of the Patriots..........some of you are just too thick to see it

How is 'the needs of the 32 come before the needs of the 1' a statement of someone who only does what is best for the 1?
He proves you wrong with his own words.

You are trying to make Kraft something he doesn't want to be.

 

[Ring 6]

you don't like him.....they way you talk about him now proves it......first kind to cut and run

Now we enter into the childish phase of your posting.

Whether I liked him or not has nothing to do with the discussion any way. You want to deflect it because you know you are wrong. But hey, feel free to find any negative comments I have ever made about Kraft aside from this issue. You won't. But you know that.

What will you come up with next? Call me gay?

 

[IcyPatriot]

Perhaps all is not known in the Kraft/Goodell dealings early in this ordeal.

In any case I think Mr. Robert Kraft deserves way more respect than he's been shown by a few in this forum.

A few in this forum who have slandered his name about without knowing all pertinent information.

Easy to play armchair QB when it's not your name ... reputation ... money on the line.

 

[Deus Irae]

Perhaps all is not known in the Kraft/Goodell dealings early in this ordeal.

In any case I think Mr. Robert Kraft deserves way more respect than he's been shown by a few in this forum.

A few in this forum who have slandered his name about without knowing all pertinent information.

Easy to play armchair QB when it's not your name ... reputation ... money on the line.

Kraft jumped into the barrel for the 'full 32'. He said it himself. He pissed his own reputation away. Nobody else did it to him, or for him.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Kraft jumped into the barrel for the 'full 32'. He said it himself. He pissed his own reputation away. Nobody else did it to him, or for him.

Agreed ... but there's stuff that goes on behind closed walls that we don't know and will never know.
Doesn't excuse Kraft ... but I still do not believe he deserves some of the hate tossed his way.
Respectful disagreement is fair game ... some disparaging his name and reputation IMO is way over the line.

 

[Deus Irae]

Agreed ... but there's stuff that goes on behind closed walls that we don't know and will never know.
Doesn't excuse Kraft ... but I still do not believe he deserves some of the hate tossed his way.
Respectful disagreement is fair game ... some disparaging his name and reputation IMO is way over the line.

If it doesn't excuse Kraft, and you acknowledge that it doesn't, he deserves what he's getting, and more.

And there's nothing that went on behind the scenes that could justify him throwing his QB under the bus the way he did, and that would even apply if Brady told him to do it.

 

[RayClay]

I don't care what he 'gauged'. Given the gravity of this situation in:
1) The reputation of the franchise
2) The future success of the franchise due to lost picks
3) The reputation of Tom Brady
4) The potential distraction for team which is still ongoing

and the fact that they were penalized for doing nothing, I would expect him to CONVINCE the owners of the facts, not gauge their opinion. I have no doubt that many owners took Wells findings as fact. The league hired him, and as far as those owners knew there was no real dispute about those findings, other than the Patriots didn't like them.
Had Kraft communicated to them everything we know now, they would clearly know there was no violation. It is silly to believe they would force their partner to accept a punishment when he has proven innocence.

"Gauging their opinion" without showing them facts is the same as quitting.

Well, you sure dodged that one. How about you consider he was at the owners meeting when he decided not to fight it.

Don't you think he explained to the other owners and the commissioner who we at the owners meeting, that this was a crock?

Do you think he will convince the ownership of Baltimore and Indy, who created this BS that they were under some sort of spell when they did it and that they will admit being lying sacks of manure?

If Kraft didn't convince them at the owners meeting, after the
BS report was discredited, why would it make a difference later?

The ridiculous Wells report was being panned for almost two weeks by scientists and statisticians by then.

Are we talking about a religious epiphany among the owners, many of whom wanted harsh punishment well after, some of whom hatched the scheme?

What would they know about how much this stank in June, that they didn't know by the end of May?

 

[RayClay]

He had no options that were both best for the franchise and best for 'the 32'.
He chose 'the 32'.
He can do that if he wants, but that doesn't mean he didn't screw the fans. It also means his pandering comments about caring about the fans, etc are disingenuous.

He is one of the 32. He is an owner.

Unless you want him to secede from the league, he is one of 32 and has agreed to certain things.

If he was one of 24 [enough to hold sway] it might be different, but he is obviously [and reportedly] either in the minority, or without 20-24 votesd and not in favor of the corrupt commissioner like the ravens, Colts and Jets, to name a few, are.

Some times you gotta wake up and smell the coffee.

I'm a fan. I love the stadium, especially knowing the odds of public funding here and I love the team, and the coach he went out on a limb to trade for and sign and the greatest Super Bowl in history, in my opinion, that we won despite this.

 

[Ring 6]

Well, you sure dodged that one. How about you consider he was at the owners meeting when he decided not to fight it.

Actually I answered it in detail.
Why does it matter where he was when he 'gauged' the opinions?

Don't you think he explained to the other owners and the commissioner who we at the owners meeting, that this was a crock?

Did he present them facts? Like in the rebuttal to the Wells report? Why give up without doing that?
I would expect that the other owners believed Wells at that time. They had no reason to doubt him. Kraft needed to PROVE it to them. He chose to end the rhetoric. At the time the Patriots were considered proven guilty. "Gauging the opinions" doesn't change that.

Do you think he will convince the ownership of Baltimore and Indy, who created this BS that they were under some sort of spell when they did it and that they will admit being lying sacks of manure?

If he produced compelling evidence that made it clear that the Patriots did nothing wrong, other owners would not support penalizing him for doing nothing.
He never took that chance, he chose to accept the penalties without appeal.

If Kraft didn't convince them at the owners meeting, after the
BS report was discredited, why would it make a difference later?

What? It was not at all discredited at the time. A bunch of Patriot fans were trying to poke holes in it, but there was nothing resembling an investigation or rebuttal at that time. That is exactly my point.

The ridiculous Wells report was being panned for almost two weeks by scientists and statisticians by then.

There was discussion of disagreement. Look, the NFL paid Wells $10,000,000 based on their belief that he was qualified, independent and competent. A few people ripping it on the internet is not compelling. A complete detailed investigation is.
How do you justify that Kraft went and had the rebuttal done, but first waived his right to appeal? Why wouldn't he keep his right to appeal, and then use that as a way to get it overturned, instead of some sour grapes, "I gave up and refused to appeal, but look I could have" atrocity?

Are we talking about a religious epiphany among the owners, many of whom wanted harsh punishment well after, some of whom hatched the scheme?

Now you are making stuff up that you have no clue about.
Once again, you are implying his business partners are fine with an complicit in railroading him, and supporting his decision to side with the interest of those 31 at the expense of his 1. How does that make any sense whatsoever?

What would they know about how much this stank in June, that they didn't know by the end of May?

Had Kraft fought the penalty, filed an appeal, made all of the evidence in the rebuttal, and more available for the appeal, and separately communicate with each owner about the issues, they would have known 100% more than they knew then, which was exactly nothing.

You seem to want to make up things that you want to think occurred behind the scenes to defend the decision to quit.
You have yet to give me any good reason on what is lost by fighting hard to clear his team (and QBs) name. Saying you don't think it would have succeeded is a ridiculous reason to not try. I haven't seen anyone offer any other reason.

You could also explain his bizarre actions regarding Brady, such as the 'should Brady play in the opener" comments, his denying the request to testify on Brady's behalf at the arbitration hearing, or even do it by phone.

There is a lot wrong with what Kraft did. You may want to accept that your belief he would have failed if he tried justifies not trying, but in my world that is a lame excuse and nothing more.

 

[Ring 6]

He is one of the 32. He is an owner.

Unless you want him to secede from the league, he is one of 32 and has agreed to certain things.

He hasn't agreed to having his franchise lose draft picks for no reason.
The argument that he has to do what is good for the majority of owners when it is bad for his franchise is ludicrous, but to this day we still have no explanation of how an appeal would be bad for the 32 anyway.
He is the one who says he chose the good of the other owners over the good of the team, not me.

If he was one of 24 [enough to hold sway] it might be different, but he is obviously [and reportedly] either in the minority, or without 20-24 votesd and not in favor of the corrupt commissioner like the ravens, Colts and Jets, to name a few, are.

This is pointless. You are making up things you have no way of knowing.
Are you seriously telling me that if he made a COMPELLING IRON CLAD CASE tot he other owners before the appeal hearing and they all knew there was no violation that they would not communicate that to Goodell? And that Goodell, despite the knowledge that the owners know there was no violation would listen to the appeal and thumb his nose at them? That is ridiculous.

Some times you gotta wake up and smell the coffee.

That doesnot come BEFORE TRYING. You are arguing he should have read the tea leaves, and guessed whether his appeal would be successful to decide whether to try. Who does that? You are arguing the smart move is to give up because maybe you might fail.

. I love the stadium, especially knowing the odds of public funding here and I love the team, and the coach he went out on a limb to trade for and sign and the greatest Super Bowl in history, in my opinion, that we won despite this.

So does everyone. What do any of those things have to do with the decision to lay down vs fight?

 

[1960Pats]

Entertain me. How did Kraft mis-handle Spygate?

Kraft mishandled Crygate when he publicly labeled Belichick a "schmuck" afterwards.

Here's your entertainment. Enjoy;

 

[RayClay]

Actually I answered it in detail.
Why does it matter where he was when he 'gauged' the opinions?


Did he present them facts?

I don't think he, personally, is an expert on the gas law. You don't think enough facts were available to owners, who can presumably read newspapers, by then? What other facts was he supposed to come up with?

You think the other owners are reasonable and not corrupt, despite a lot of evidence in recent articles that they are. why?

 

[1960Pats]

How did that work out?

Nobody is calling those teams cheaters. Not so for the Pats. That is the point that seems to be getting missed by some here. Kraft didn't have to win. All he had to do was just put up some semblance of a defense.

 

[RayClay]

Are you seriously telling me that if he made a COMPELLING IRON CLAD CASE tot he other owners before the appeal hearing and they all knew there was no violation that they would not communicate that to Goodell? And that Goodell, despite the knowledge that the owners know there was no violation would listen to the appeal and thumb his nose at them? That is ridiculous.

That's obviously true. Are you saying that Irsay, Baltimore tipsters, Wells, Goodell and Exponent weren't debunked by multiple scientists, lawyers and statisticians?

You don't think the other owners read newspapers?

How exactly does Kraft prove an iron clad negative? Does he call on god as a witness?

You choose to ignore all the evidence that the owners are corrupt, jealous and vengeful and paint Kraft as the ultimate lawyer, scientist and statistician that would put Mona Lisa Vito to shame.

I don't.

I prefer to draw the obvious conclusions from experts and journalists through the process.