Belichick Can't Have Much Faith In The Kids

[Triumph]

Yup.

Always cracks me up when some posters feel that is was the rookie WR's who were the problem and not the $h/tsalad TE position (ex of 5 games of Gronk). Let them develop and CORRECT the TE deficit (largely affected by Hoodlumdez' arrest).

If the Pats passing game lives or dies because of the TE position then they dont have good enough WRs. It wasnt that way with Troy Brown, Givens, Branch and Patten.

Hernandez played in the 2012 AFCC and NE never scored a point in the 2nd half. And, this is the 3rd consecutive season that NE has failed to win a SB and Gronk not being able to play was the excuse.

Kraft should put a new banner up at Gillette "If Gronk had played we would have won"

 

[Brady6]

When we came into free agency the debate was Edelman, a downfield receiver, or just maybe Edelman PLUS a mid-level downfield receiver.

Well, we have Edelman, Amendola and LeFell all getting their bonuses this week (or in Danny's case his guarantee). OK, competition is good, and we now these three competing with the four kids. So, you would think that we have MORE than enough, especially when we have nine more needs.

Not according to Bill! He has receivers sneaking in. He has Britt in for an interview. He is looking around for more help.

One thought is that the kids maybe nowhere close to being ready for NFL prime time.

Another way of thinking about this is that Dobson is injured and questionable, and the rest are basically developmental receivers who may or may not ever amount to anything.

IMHO, Edelman, Amendola, LeFell and ONE of the kids stepping up would be plenty to have a better passing offense than in 2013, especially with some help from the TE position.

I have to disagree with what you have said here. I do not see anything that indicates a lack of trust in the younger players. Keep in mind that when we entered UFA last season Belichick signed Amendola and Donald Jones. Posters forget that Donald Jones was a productive receiver who was coming off a 41 receptions, 443 yards, 4 touchdown season in just 12 games in 2012, he was forced into retirement due to a kidney disorder. I see the LaFell signing as a similar signing to him (slight upgrade LaFell is a better player).

Resigning Edelman has nothing to do with the young players in my opinion, if anything it would be an indication of a lack of trust in Amendola. Also, keep in mind that last season they were expecting Hernandez to be the #2 option behind Rob Gronkowski.

I will say that it is highly unlikely that Thompkins makes the team, but I have felt that was for a while. I never got on board with the Thompkins hype, I think he was a JAG who worked hard in camp and earned some early reps. Mark Harrison could be working as a F-TE which would give him the best chance to make the roster.

X-WR – Dobson
Y/Z-WR – Edelman
#3A WR – LaFell
#3B WR – Amendola
#4 WR – Boyce
#5 WR – Slater (ST)

LaFell and Amendola are #3A and #3B because they will both be used as the third WR depending on the situation (if we need an inside WR or outside WR).

 

[Luxusdk]

Could the reason be with Gronks injury history in mind, Josh and BB wont build the offense around TEs.
Basicly going back to 3-1-1 with options of 2-2-1 when Gronk/Hooman/x are all ok?

To be able to stay with TEs they might be forced to pick one in the first, and i doubt they see the value by doing so..
IF 1 of the TE drops in the laps i think they pull the trigger, but they need a backup plan.
So IF/When Gronk is Down they have the option of 4 and 5 WRsets.
I would be surpriced if they'r done with WRs, i think 1 more "Vet" and 1-2 rookies missing still.

 

[Water Boy]

I am inclined to think the money we used to sign LaFell might have been better off spent elsewhere.

I agree. Haven't we seen this scenario play out before? Donald Hayes anyone?

 

[DarrylS]

Consider these three stats for TE production...

2011 169 receptions 24 TD's
2012 116 receptions 16 TD's
2013 56 receptions 6 TD's...

The need is obvious... with the Gronk going down and Hernandez going to jail, they had to change everything mid stream...

 

[Nunchucks]

I think a lot of people are undervaluing Thompkins. He gets open and beats CBs when they try to jam him. He fell off the map when he fell on his hip, but at that point, Brady was only throwing to Edelman.

Lets see the competition, a full year in the Patriots system should work wonders for a lot of these players.

Rookie WRs almost never perform well. Lets see the year 2 jump. The more WRs in the mix the better.

 

[Rob0729]

Dobson lacks a swagger most top receivers have. All the good ones have a little bit of ****iness. In Boyce's case, I think he will be a late bloomer. Game seems to be going to fast for him right now.

Some of the greatest receivers of all time don't have "swagger". Jerry Rice never had "swagger".

I don't think swagger has anything to do with the success of the position. It is a spotlight position. So many of the top WRs have massive egos because they have had their arses kissed since high school. But I think the "swagger" is due to that and not a requirement of the position.

 

[IllegalContact]

the way I see it, the pats dealt with the lack of experience on the roster with regards to the WR position.

Basically, they filled the roster out in order to be able to have the full complement of WR types including depth.

Dobson struggled with injuries early and Boyce was drafted with a known foot issue that was going to take time to heal. This gave Thompkins an opportunity and he was better than expected out of the crate, but seemed to not have improved with some really annoying habits.

At this point, it appears that Thompkins will be the odd man out, but if Boyce takes the next step, this may make Amendola the expendable one.

what you have now is the desirable mix of experience and youth.....just look at both dobson, boyce, and thompkins as having their 2nd first year

when it comes to young WR's you can compare last year to 2002.....Branch had his moments, but down the stretch when things mattered, he faded that year....givens was still an unknown

I think past history would dictate that at least one of last years rookies will be a solid and dependable contributor...

 

[Ivan]

I have no problem with this analysis.

I guess I wasn't very clear in the original post. My issue is NOT why we have 6 wide receivers plus PS payers, UDFA's, late draft choices and future to be signed JAG's competing. That's all fine.

We have 7 wide receivers signed though 2016 (Thompkins is an RFA in 2016 but that's close enough). I think that Belichick has taken care of business. A week ago, many would have been happy if we just re-signed Edelman.

My question is why Belichick is spending so much effort looking for even more. wide receivers.

Folks say the answer is due diligence. Well, personally, I would prefer due diligence in signing a RB, pass rusher, rotational DE, a linebacker or two, a center, a guard, a TE or two, and/or a DT.

BTW, my understanding is that this drafting in the deepest in the WR position in a decade. A late pick might very well beat out Boyce and Thompkins, or at least be Practice Squad material for a year.

Belichick takes the opportunities where they present themselves and right now the market is good for WR's, and he always stocks up on them to the extent that he can in the offseason and lets it sort itself out in camp. And if you are going to apply this logic to his offseason acquisitions then he must hate his young CB's, and I don't believe that is the case, i just think he saw an opportunity to get much better than the development of the young guys alone would allow for and went for it.

 

[JackBauer]

Anyone else see a trend developing here?

Given the nature of his injuries, the trend, if you want to call it that, is a figment of your imagination.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I think BB just stabilized the WR position if all the rookies were to bust.

If Dobson/Thompkins/Boyce flame out, Brady could still manage with Edelman/Lafell as his starting two WRs, with Gronk and a rookie at TE. I view Amendola as a bonus.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Once again folks are implicitly assuming that all WRs mentioned will be healthy @ game one, etc. It's unlikely to be so and BB is looking at options with that in mind. I hope he is.

 

[strngplyr]

Yes.

Any two of Amaro, Seferian-Jenkins, Niklas or Fiedorowicz and I would be happy with the '14 draft.

Red zone

5 Wide

Dobson Rookie TE Gronk Rookie TE LaFell

Shortest guy is 6'3". Deal with that NFL

Sorry but the redzone is about a lot more than size.

I'd rather 5'11 Edelman in that package. When it comes to the smallest area of the field I want the people Brady is most comfortable throwing to around him. If size was all that mattered Edelman, DJax, Amendola, etc. would never have a job.

 

[JMC00]

Sorry but the redzone is about a lot more than size.

I'd rather 5'11 Edelman in that package. When it comes to the smallest area of the field I want the people Brady is most comfortable throwing to around him. If size was all that mattered Edelman, DJax, Amendola, etc. would never have a job.

Ya worked very well last year in the red zone.

 

[strngplyr]

Ya worked very well last year in the red zone.

Okay, go add only size. Chemistry is more important. Brady had ONE trusted receiver last year while Gronk and Vereen were gone. He was throwing to people he's never worked with before and ALL of them except Edelman had missed multiple games.

When Gronk, Vereen, and Edelman were on the field together in the RZ did we ever fail to score?

Vereen and Edelman are both under 6' and the offense couldn't be slowed, let alone stopped.

The perception of Gronk is that he's a caveman, but he's probably one of the most intelligent football minds on the team. He knows the game. He knows coverages, he knows how to beat them. Yeah, he's an athletic freak too, but theres a lot more to Gronk than that. Most importantly, he knows what Brady wants.

Simply putting tall receivers on the field won't do anything for you.

I do not want to see rookies manning 2 skill positions in the most critical area of the field again.

Did YOU watch last season? How did that look? Dobson is 6'3" and Thompkins is 6'2"(?).

 

[Zeus]

Some of the greatest receivers of all time don't have "swagger". Jerry Rice never had "swagger".

I don't think swagger has anything to do with the success of the position. It is a spotlight position. So many of the top WRs have massive egos because they have had their arses kissed since high school. But I think the "swagger" is due to that and not a requirement of the position.

Swagger is nonsense ...

“It’s really embarrassing. IT really is. It’s embarrassing. Can’t hit the snap count. Can’t line up on side. There are holding penalties in the defensive passing game every week for key conversions. There are holding penalties on offense, giving the ball away like we don’t give a nuts about it. Just turn it over to ‘em. Leave the ball lying on the field there for five seconds while they come from 30 yards away to recover it. It’s just dumb football, fellas.

I’ll tell you one other thing too, I’ve read a couple of comments. Now, I don’t spend a lot of time reading the paper. I really don’t. but I do watch a little about what we say and what we think. I’ve seen a couple comments here, some of the players talking about we need to get our ‘swagger’ back. Our attitude back.....you know what? We didn’t have a ‘swagger’ last year. If you think about it, we didn’t have a swagger. What we had was a sense of urgency, a sense of urgency about playing well, being smart, and capitalizing on every opportunity and situation that came our way….it wasn’t about a swagger. You can take that swagger and shove it up your ***, okay?!”

Bill Belichick, addressing the team during the Patriots 2002 season.

 

[Froob]

His injuries were pure bad luck. The PAT and the tackle at the knees (partly dirty, part NFL's fault for changing the rules and hanging out big fines that make players hesitant to hit in the upper area)

Honestly, I don't think a guy like Ward would try to hit Gronk high even if the rules didn't change. Your best bet is still hitting him low.

 

[IllegalContact]

I think BB just stabilized the WR position if all the rookies were to bust.

If Dobson/Thompkins/Boyce flame out, Brady could still manage with Edelman/Lafell as his starting two WRs, with Gronk and a rookie at TE. I view Amendola as a bonus.

I don't get this notion 'if the rookies bust'

both dobson and thompkins had seasons that mirrored deion branch's rookie season and both did more as rookies than lafell....for that matter, lafell didn't do much more than either of these 2 last year

as for boyce, his rookie production was similar to david givens'

none of them really gave anyone anything to be concerned about....they were thrown into the fire and they did fairly well......now that they know what to expect, I see much bigger things

 

[TBR]

Yes.

Any two of Amaro, Seferian-Jenkins, Niklas or Fiedorowicz and I would be happy with the '14 draft.

Red zone

5 Wide

Dobson Rookie TE Gronk Rookie TE LaFell

Shortest guy is 6'3". Deal with that NFL

To get 2 of those we'd likely have to draft two TEs between rounds 1-4 which I doubt they'll do. Unless they pull a trade off like last year with the Vikings and get several picks between those rounds.

I could see us grabbing Amaro/S-Jenkins in round 1 or 2, and then hopefully Colt Lyerla in the 6th or 7th. I want him real bad.

 

[RayClay]

Swagger is nonsense ...


Bill Belichick, addressing the team during the Patriots 2002 season.

That's a great quote, where's it from?