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The FA, "sign the beast" thread

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Quote? Jack it is understated here that general consensus on this Forum is that McCourty is in the cream of the crop in NFL Safeties from what I read. O.K. I will fix it for you. Ronnie Lott, Larry Wilson etc. You must be bored.

So you (shockingly!) can't find a single example of a poster comparing McCourty to Reed.

Do you understand the difference between recognizing McCourty as one of the best safeties in the league versus comparing him to the all-time greats? It's a subtle distinction, I know.

If you are atune here Jack, the media and fan base are "suggesting" that we long term McCourty prior to the season.

Indeed. That would be the smart move.

My question is, is McCourty replaceable or is he the face of the N.E. defense?
He is o.k. in my humble opinion so why not wait and see if he takes it up a notch.

And you're entitled to your humble opinion, no matter how wrong it happens to be.

A FS with only one INT and his PD are down 25% in 2013. That is not playmaker status.

Ah, yes, the old "isn't a playmaker" argument. It's as ******ed now as it was when people made the same claim about Mayo. It's amazing to me that the same people who ostensibly watched the Patriots secondary give up big play after big play from 2011 on could witness last year's relative success in this area and still denigrate McCourty.
 
Byrd is the top safety out there this year and has made it clear he isn't signing anywhere for less than $9/year.

Ward is a better fit and will be cheaper.

Whitner should be a little cheaper still.

Clemons will be a lot cheaper.

I've mentioned Clemons as an alternative. That would give the Patriots a pair of 'cover' safeties with excellent range and not much tackling prowess compared to normal safeties. It would be interesting to see how BB and Patricia used them.
 
Thoughts on Malcom Jenkins?
 
Whatever route we go I am trusting our FO to do the right thing, but personally Talib's hip scares the BeJeezus out of me. If we lock him up long term and his hip finally craps out, we are screwed. I'd rather go for someone on the lower end who could be healthy long term.

I'm excited to see how things shake out this FA period. Last year it was a given that Welker was going to be our only story ( before mid June when things went nuts) and the year before all I remember was the Brandon Lloyd "Will we or won't we?" drama. There are a lot of interesting dynamics coming this week.
 
Wow, I hadn't thought of this, sorry my light bulb is a little dim.

What is the Patriots decided to not go after a top CB (Talib or Revis) and focused on upgrading Safety?

Maybe bring in Byrd and then go to the draft for CB, a lot of teams have won a SB without top talent at CB.

I think that could certainly be an alternative worth consideration.

Of course, who knows what Belichick thinks, as he's the only one who really matters?

I wouldn't be opposed as a fan to having safety finally addressed (for real), and bringing in yet another CB in the draft.
 
Byrd is the top safety out there this year and has made it clear he isn't signing anywhere for less than $9/year.

Ward is a better fit and will be cheaper.

Whitner should be a little cheaper still.

Clemons will be a lot cheaper.

Whitner is the perfect Safety for us to get in my opinion.

He'll come from a tream , who for the past 3 years has been just as close to a Lombardi as we were. Another good veteran leader to have in the lockerroom , and a guy that will blow up any receiver coming across the middle.
 
Whitner is the perfect Safety for us to get in my opinion.

He'll come from a tream , who for the past 3 years has been just as close to a Lombardi as we were. Another good veteran leader to have in the lockerroom , and a guy that will blow up any receiver coming across the middle.

Ward is better in coverage than Whitner is. Whitner would be the third option behind Ward and Byrd. I wouldn't mind exploring the draft for one either. I love Calvin Pryor, but he's not getting past the Cowboys. Bucannon is a hitter that should be available in day two and beyond. He's also solid in coverage. Antone Exum and Keith McGill are two tall and big bodied CB conversions that can play SS. Capable hitters and they can cover, particularly with their head turned toward the ball. Dontae Johnson is another prospect that has been floated around.
 
Thoughts on Malcom Jenkins?

I kept going back and forth on Jenkins when I was doing a mock offseason. In the end I went against him because I think he is simply too inconsistent for this team. He is a typical boom or bust type prospect because he has the physical talent. He is a good athlete, can make plays and can hit, but he is a poor tackler, takes horrible angles, isn't great in man coverage and has never lived up to the potential. I really like his talent but I doubt his high risk style of play would work too well with Belichick.

If I am the Pats the guy I go after extremely hard is Michael Johnson. He seems like the perfect fit and ticks all the boxes of what the Pats look for in edge rusher.

- He has elite size for the position. 6'7" 270lbs with long arms and fantastic length (he batted down 9 passes last season).

- He is a fantastic, explosive athlete. Ran a 4.69 40 at the NFL combine with a 1.54 10 yard split. He also had a 38.5" vert, 10'8" broad jump and 28 reps.

- He is extremely versatile and can play both 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB. Last season he graded out as the #2 run defending DE in the NFL so he is excellent in that area, using his long arms and strong anchor to set the edge. In 2012 he had 11.5 sacks showing his pass rush ability. While that number dropped to 3.5 (due to different responsibilities after the injury to Geno Atkins) he still increased his number of QB pressures. He also has the athleticism to drop into coverage which he did 31 times last season.

- He's a proven NFL talent with 2 seasons of very high production. While he stood out in 2012 for his 11.5 sacks, he was perhaps even better in 2013 although the box score might not show it. In 2013 he tied the Bengals team lead with 40 quarterback hurries, and his 61 total pressures ranked 14th among all 4-3 defensive ends in the NFL. As an edge setter he also graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 2 4-3 defensive end in run defense. While also adding 56 tackles (34 solo), 3 run stuffs, 9 passes batted and an interception.

- He is a team leader that is well liked and respected by his teammates
Johnson is well liked and respected by his teammates, and often speaks to reporters with an authenticity that you rarely see anymore.
Cincinnati Bengals mailbag: Is Michael Johnson replaceable? - ESPN

- He is an excellent scheme fit, allowing the Pats to play in just about any defensive alignment and would compliment Chandler Jones and Ninko very well.


This is what Mike Zimmer, former Bengals defensive Coordinator had to say about Michael Johnson (before he got the Vikings head coaching job).

"I have a ton of respect for him," defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer said. "I remember when he came here he had a lot of things said about him when he came out of college; he wouldn’t finish, he didn’t do this or didn’t do that, but Michael has become a good football player. He’s very conscientious, he plays extremely hard. He’s one of these guys that we’ve build up into what we’re looking for here, the kind of guys that we want, the kind of personalities, the kind of caring about one another in the locker room. I can’t say enough good things about him … hopefully, we’ll get him back. If not, I know that Michael will be successful wherever he goes."
Mike Zimmer wants Michael Johnson back, who figures to be a top free agent - Cincy Jungle


This is a guy I want on my team.

The Pats reportedly would have gone after Johnson if he became available last offseason, I really hope they do this time. They will have to open their wallet but they certainly have the cap space (or can easily get it) if they want to. It's not often you get such a well rounded player that can play the run, rush the passer, bat balls at the line of scrimmage and drop into coverage so I hope BB takes advantage of this opportunity. I think this guy is the real deal.
 
Agree on Johnson, but he'll be big bucks - Vikings want him, as well as some others.
 
I hope we take a flyer on a few of our own beasts. At least, they
are known quantities and are familiar with the system. A lot of the
beasts from the past have been dismal failures.
 
I kept going back and forth on Jenkins when I was doing a mock offseason. In the end I went against him because I think he is simply too inconsistent for this team. He is a typical boom or bust type prospect because he has the physical talent. He is a good athlete, can make plays and can hit, but he is a poor tackler, takes horrible angles, isn't great in man coverage and has never lived up to the potential. I really like his talent but I doubt his high risk style of play would work too well with Belichick.

I thought he played much better last year teamed with Vaccaro.

I wonder if McCourty could have the same affect.
 
It means he has to "debate" things that he doesn't like about the team. Openly questioning authority and such. In other words, not really a leader.

I live in Minnesota. Jared Allen is about him. He played in a Tampa 2 so a different defense, but he wildly chases sacks to the detriment of the defense far too often for my liking. He is an excellent player, very talented. But he would have to come here and be a foot soldier, because he's not a leader on a great team. And though he's kicked the overt character concerns that plagued him in KC, he's still capable of high level jackazzery from time to time.

I'd take him, but I don't think he's coming here. He'll likely either re-up with the Vikings or go chase money. But again, I'd take him. That would be a mean 3 man DE rotation.
 
Julius Peppers

Peppers will be released (according to Schefty) and I think we should seriously take a look. He already has his money and would be willing to take less for a SB (I think at least.)

What do you guys think? I know we need a DT/WR more, but still. Jones + Peppers.
 
Re: Julius Peppers

Peppers has been at the top of my wish list since the season ended. I would love to see them take serious runs at Jared Allen and Peppers. Talib is as good as gone and they need to turn their front 7 into something really nasty. They will have more opportunity to address their defense more significantly in free agency than in the draft imo, so other than Edelman I want them to go after veterans like Peppers, Allen, Rodgers-Cromartie, Arthur Jones, Linval Joseph...etc....And then go offense in the draft.
 
Re: Julius Peppers

Peppers and Jones would be scary.
 
Re: Julius Peppers

Belichick wil be interested and he'll have a price in mind. It's up to Peppers to decide if that price is enough.
 
Re: Julius Peppers

Peppers is more name than player now. If dirt cheap yes, but Jared Allen has to be more of a priority he still has a lot. Him and Jones would be scary.
 
Re: Julius Peppers

34 years old
45 tackles, 7 sacks last season

Unless he's dirt cheap no thanks.
 
Re: Julius Peppers

Over the years, I've developed a policy of never believing that a guy is willing to leave a bunch of money on the table to play for a contender unless he says he is. Even then, I'm still skeptical.

I don't really blame the player, either. If my career entailed earning 95+% of my lifetime earning potential before age 40, I'd be after every penny I could get too.

If he is willing to come cheap-ish, though, then I'd definitely be intrigued. It's hard to overstate how bad the Bears were at DT last year. The defense was pretty awful across the board, and while Peppers was part of the problem at his old salary, that accounts for a large part of his statistic drop-off in 2013. He could still contribute as a rotational guy, for sure.
 
Re: Julius Peppers

I'm interested if he will take a Kelly-level deal. Not interested in overpaying though. Peppers could make an impact as possibly the penetrating DT role. How good is he on the inside or is he only a DE at this point?
 
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