Source: Aqib Talib wants top-of-the-market deal

[TBR]

I'm going to be pretty pissed if the Broncos get Revis or Talib

 

[supafly]

I'm going to be pretty pissed if the Broncos get Revis or Talib

They seem to be going all in for the last couple of yrs while they still have Peyton Manning, so I can't say that I'm surprised.

They may feel the effects of some of their spending down the road, so they appear to be gambling on the current right now. Elway said they'd be major players in free agency, so I wouldn't be shocked if they did go after a top notch CB to replace Bailey.

All we can do is worry about ourselves though. If our own team hadn't experienced the injuries so badly last year and were improved in some areas, we'd have stopped DEN from going to the SB.

Hopefully we can cut some fat, free up additional money, and make some moves as well.

 

[varjao]

look....most of you responding in this thread are veterans of the BB regime and THIS board. You should all know by now that NOT ONE of us has any real clue WTF they will/won't do.All we DO know is they have a plan. If this season plays out like the last 12 I guarantee we will not like a percentage of the decisions and the type of offense/defense these decisions imply.

I firmly believe if they do NOT make a meaningful blue chip decision at center, then our offense will remain vulnerable to other top teams inside rushers..in fact most inside D lineman in the league. The Pats were NOT offensively competitive against Denver in the playoffs. Mankins, Wendell, Connolly was a SIEVE. I want a stone wall inside. Do they? To me that is a huge unanswerable question right now that only free agency and the draft will answer.

The same is true of the D line, especially the D tackles. I am NOT buying "Vince can" and "Kelly can" until I SEE IT. What I saw last season was THEY COULDN'T. We have players that can threaten the pocket from the edge . We NEED at least one, preferably two inside D tackles that can PUSH forwards and move QB's around in , or flush out of the pocket.

The rest of the roster I can live with no matter how they go about it...but tough is tough and we are NOT tough inside on either line right now IMO.

That's the way I see our major needs as well.

 

[Xerostomia]

I cannot name any of the DB's that played on the Giants teams that beat the Pats in 2007, and 2011. I can however remember the front 7 of the Giants very well.

I think Talib masks the front 7's deficiencies, because he can play 1:1 with the best receivers in the league. The real question is whether the money is better spent on the front 7 or the secondary. As it stands, we probably have one of the youngest secondary's in the league (Dennard, Ryan, Arrington, McCourty), and if they live up to the challenge, then I think rebuilding the DL/LB are probably more important. I used the Giants as an example of a front 7 that was really dominant that won them 2 superbowls.

I still think that we lost those 2 superbowls because our offense failed to execute. Same goes for the last 2 AFC championship games. Scoring 3 points in a half rarely wins game.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

You're wrong on life.

You're failing at life.

You saw the defense with Talib and without Talib.

Now hop off my lap little buddy. I don't swing that way.

Why are you manically alternating between insightful, reasoned posts and ones where you wish cancer and death upon people and make bizarre homophobic accusations?

Slow down man, nobody gets awards around here for most aggressive poster and there is a lot of time to hash all of this out, especially because none of us have any influence over the decisions. Relax, enjoy the offseason, make your points in a reasoned and thoughtful way. Stay away from all the flame war stuff and you'll do just fine. Being ANGRY!! when someone disagrees with your opinion is not going to do anyone any good.

This thread has been painful, it's a lot of people shouting at each other followed by insight and then right after that more shouting. That is not the right way to patsfans.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I'm going to be pretty pissed if the Broncos get Revis or Talib

Me too. I haven't decided whether I will never watch football again or to hold my breath forever but one way or the other I will make them pay dearly for it.

 

[supafly]

I cannot name any of the DB's that played on the Giants teams that beat the Pats in 2007, and 2011. I can however remember the front 7 of the Giants very well.

I think Talib masks the front 7's deficiencies, because he can play 1:1 with the best receivers in the league. The real question is whether the money is better spent on the front 7 or the secondary. As it stands, we probably have one of the youngest secondary's in the league (Dennard, Ryan, Arrington, McCourty), and if they live up to the challenge, then I think rebuilding the DL/LB are probably more important. I used the Giants as an example of a front 7 that was really dominant that won them 2 superbowls.

Interesting comparison. I agree that an improvement in the front 7 would go a long way towards helping the cause, although we'd still need something of an "adequate" secondary as well.

Another example would be our own 2011 SB team who had a laughable secondary, yet came within 1 minute of winning the title. I think we should do everything possible to try and keep Talib, but there should be a line that isn't crossed. It will be interesting to see where Belichick draws that line in the coming days/week or so.

I still think that we lost those 2 superbowls because our offense failed to execute. Same goes for the last 2 AFC championship games. Scoring 3 points in a half rarely wins game.

I think this debate will go on forever, and both sides make sense on some level.

While we obviously need to score more points, our defense gave up an average of about 16-17 points in 7.5/9 playoff games (including the 3 SBs) in our 2001-2004 dynasty. The only 1.5 games where this didn't occur would be the AFCCG victory over Pittsburgh in 2004, when the offense gained a big lead and gave up some points that could be considered garbage time, and the second half of the CAR Super Bowl when the scoring went back and forth. When you can win games with only having to score in the high teens/early 20s, it certainly helps on a dramatic level.

Note that in our last 5 postseason losses, we've given up the following:

2013--Denver 26

2012--Baltimore 28 (including 2 fourth quarter backbreaking TDs when it was a 14-13 game)

2011--NY Giants 19 (the outlier). It should be noted that once again, we gave up important fourth quarter points on the very last drive offensive drive for the NYG. Basically, a repeat of 2007's SB loss

2010--NY Jets 28 (including 2 fourth quarter backbreaking TDs--once again)

2009--Baltimore 33

--------------------------------

If you want to go back even further, you could.

2007--NY Giants 17

2006 Indianapolis 38

2005 Denver 27

TOTAL DEFENSIVE AVERAGE IN OUR LAST 8 LOSSES: 27 points allowed

 

[ausbacker]

Me too. I haven't decided whether I will never watch football again or to hold my breath forever but one way or the other I will make them pay dearly for it.

No offence to TBR but I've been chuckling at this for a good few minutes Ivan.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I dont want harmon and ryan starting this upcoming year. Would be a downgrade compared to past year


And it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Revis went to Denver. They have the $$ now. Se with talib and denver. That wouldn't surprise me

DRC and Revis\talib would give them a big boost

 

[TomNGisele]

We can talk about how a great front 7 covers up a mediocre secondary til the cows come home... But the Pats aren't going to go out and grab 2-3 elite DLs or LBs do instead of dreaming about becoming dominant there, let's keep what we had that worked so well (when healthy) last year.

Unless you can come up w a realistic way to get a dominant front 7 (and you can't) it's silly to talk about it.

With guys healthy they were very good against the run and pretty good against the pass. Without Talib they were awful against the pass.

 

[strngplyr]

I dont want harmon and ryan starting this upcoming year. Would be a downgrade compared to past year


And it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Revis went to Denver. They have the $$ now. Se with talib and denver. That wouldn't surprise me

DRC and Revis\talib would give them a big boost

Denver is probably in a position worse than ourselves to take on a guy like Revis or Talib along with resigning DRC.

They have a lot of cap space because nearly half of their starting lineup is currently not under contract (9 of 22).

 

[supafly]

We can talk about how a great front 7 covers up a mediocre secondary til the cows come home... But the Pats aren't going to go out and grab 2-3 elite DLs or LBs do instead of dreaming about becoming dominant there, let's keep what we had that worked so well (when healthy) last year.

Unless you can come up w a realistic way to get a dominant front 7 (and you can't) it's silly to talk about it.

With guys healthy they were very good against the run and pretty good against the pass. Without Talib they were awful against the pass.

I don't really agree with your thought that we can't have a very good front seven. They looked pretty good last year before injuries to Wilfork, Kelly, and Mayo. I don't see why we couldn't add another top 1-3 round draft pick, as well as better competition with a good free agent. The addition of 2 more players would go a long way, and we'll probably have Mayo and at least ONE of Wilfork/Kelly back.

In regards to Talib, he was good in the beginning of the season, but much, much different when he returned vs CAR down the stretch of the season and playoffs.

He went from allowing a completion rate in the high 30's through week #6 to something in the middle 60's once he returned from his 5 week (3 game) layoff. That continued throughout his final injury in the AFCCG. You just can't predict if/when he'll be fully healthy, so they'll have to be careful with drawing a line in the sand in terms of how much they are willing to spend. They are obviously in much better shape when he's healthy, but let's not act like his presence alone solved all of our problems. We're obviously a better secondary with him, but there's a price to everything.

 

[supafly]

I dont want harmon and ryan starting this upcoming year. Would be a downgrade compared to past year


And it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Revis went to Denver. They have the $$ now. Se with talib and denver. That wouldn't surprise me

DRC and Revis\talib would give them a big boost

I really don't want both of those options starting right off the bat either.

They could draft or bring in free agents at either the CB/S position to try and limit that to only one of Ryan/Harmon.

 

[strngplyr]

I don't really agree with your thought that we can't have a very good front seven. They looked pretty good last year before injuries to Wilfork, Kelly, and Mayo. I don't see why we couldn't add another top 1-3 round draft pick, as well as better competition with a good free agent. The addition of 2 more players would go a long way, and we'll probably have Mayo and at least ONE of Wilfork/Kelly back.

In regards to Talib, he was good in the beginning of the season, but much, much different when he returned vs CAR down the stretch of the season and playoffs.

He went from allowing a completion rate in the high 30's through week #6 to something in the middle 60's once he returned from his 5 week (3 game) layoff. That continued throughout his final injury in the AFCCG. You just can't predict if/when he'll be fully healthy, so they'll have to be careful with drawing a line in the sand in terms of how much they are willing to spend. They are obviously in much better shape when he's healthy, but let's not act like his presence alone solved all of our problems. We're obviously a better secondary with him, but there's a price to everything.

We can definitely have a good front 7. All we truly need is someone to spell Ninko/Jones so they aren't playing 96+% of the snaps for the season, and hopefully our interior guys stay healthy enough and get at least 2 bodies to rotate with the big boys (they may already be on the roster or may not be, who knows, they don't need to be elite either, just people to keep the starters fresh) and our front 4 should be pretty stout.

 

[supafly]

"Aqib Talib wants top of the market deal"

Matt Chatham on twitter: "And I want a pony."

LOL :rocker:

 

[pheenix11]

I'll say the same thing about Talib that I said about Asante Samuel, you want superstar CB salary then play like a superstar CB. That means catching Super Bowl clinching interceptions and playing in the AFCCG.

 

[Huckleberry1]

"Aqib Talib wants top of the market deal"

Matt Chatham on twitter: "And I want a pony."

LOL :rocker:

I want a pony and to be paid like a top of the market corner.

 

[Triumph]

We will know in the next few days if talib will be back...not enough movement before FA hits he is a goner

If some team wants to over pay for Talib let them.

Injuries and another suspension hanging over his head are a concern.

 

[resdubwhite]

I want a pony and to be paid like a top of the market corner.

Throw Amy Adams into the equation and I'm all on for that. If I was willing to give up something the pony can go.

No reason Pats can't do a deal with Talib.

None.

 

[AzorianPats]

Throw Amy Adams into the equation and I'm all on for that. If I was willing to give up something the pony can go.

No reason Pats can't do a deal with Talib.

None.

But there is a huge reason....

I don't want my team paying top dollar for a guy that can't suit up or stay on the field for the big games.

He needs a contract with incentives. He wants a deal similar to Grimes, and when he's healthy he's better, but Grimes played a whole season already with the Dolphins, something Talib never done with us, or in his career actually. He's got an occurring hip problem. That's not gonna go away.

Give him a salary around $6.5-7mil. Extra mil if he plays and finishes 10 games. If he completes a whole season add another extra million, and if he finishes the playoffs another million. If he plays a whole season he can make $10m in salary and incentives and that's not counting what he'll get for a signing bonus.

Good deal on paper for him, and a good deal for us knowing theirs almost no chance he plays a full season.