So Michael Sam Is Gay, Who Cares? Can He Rush The QB?

[Ring 6]

I'll teach hetero sex has to wait until marriage. I see homo sex as always unnatural and immoral. But both are wrong for kids the way I'll raise them. Hopefully I don't have to address the homosexual aspect.

Do you realize how horrible it will be for your child to be your child if they are born gay?
Clearly if they don't hide from it, go deep into the closet to hide who they are from you, or commit suicide you will disown them.

 

[Boogs]

No, you said if your kid was gay you would get them help.

I am asking how you would respond if they told you they were gay, have no problem with being gay, don't want 'help to not be gay' and are in a committed relationship and are asking for you to accept and support their lifestyle and partner.

You can't honestly tell me you would look at them and tell them they are sick and you will bring them to someone who can ungay them.

If they don't want help, there is nothing you can do.

 

[Ring 6]

If they don't want help, there is nothing you can do.

You can accept them.
Or you can disown them.
It sounds like you would disown them.

 

[Ring 6]

If they don't want help, there is nothing you can do.

You realize that almost every gay person doesn't want help to not be gay, right.
It is who they are. It is not a disease, or personality flaw, like say bigotry.

 

[JoeSixPat]

There are also a large number of blacks that resent the homosexual causes being compared to the struggles that they (blacks) endured.

Would you like to provide any proof to back that up?
Are you seriously trying to tell us that gays are treated equally while having a position that they should hide the fact they are gay?

Oh I forgot, it's cool to be gay now right?

Although a great many dispute the contention, there were strong indications that Prop 8 in CA went down in part because of the lack of support of African American voters, and others contend that the hispanic vote did Prop 8 in as well

Prop 8 Sparks Gay-Black Divide - ABC News

You'll find articles contesting this as well citing 70% support among blacks for Prop 8 (I would contend that 30% opposition among African Americans for a civil rights issue DOES indicate that a significant number of blacks don't equate gay civil rights with racial civil rights - especially when you're talking about a population that HAS been discriminated against

For Latinos it's a cultural thing - the "machismo" attitudes aren't exactly welcoming for an hombre who announces he likes other hombres

I think there were also reports via Frank Ocean that his fellow rappers and musicians don't want to work with him because he's gay

So I think it is firmly established that no, blacks don't universally equate gay rights with their struggle for civil rights and in fact there is a significant divide among them in their support or lack of support.

Me, personally - I do view gay rights as a civil rights issue.

And yet, I also find myself defending the opinions of those who, for their own strongly held religious beliefs, do not condone homosexuality and are not going to be muzzled about expressing those beliefs.

Here we get down to the Duck Dynasty type controversy. I hate what that guy said - and think he said it very crudely - but I accept - and yes even tolerate - what I view as an intolerant religious attitude.

The bottom line for me is accepting that - yes, people feel that way - and their views are not invalid - though I hope their views remain just that - and do not dictate the law of the land.

Equal rights under law. Let God determine the rest.

 

[PatsSox363804]

 

[Ring 6]

Although a great many dispute the contention, there were strong indications that Prop 8 in CA went down in part because of the lack of support of African American voters, and others contend that the hispanic vote did Prop 8 in as well

Prop 8 Sparks Gay-Black Divide - ABC News

You'll find articles contesting this as well citing 70% support among blacks for Prop 8 (I would contend that 30% opposition among African Americans for a civil rights issue DOES indicate that a significant number of blacks don't equate gay civil rights with racial civil rights - especially when you're talking about a population that HAS been discriminated against

For Latinos it's a cultural thing - the "machismo" attitudes aren't exactly welcoming for an hombre who announces he likes other hombres

I think there were also reports via Frank Ocean that his fellow rappers and musicians don't want to work with him because he's gay

So I think it is firmly established that no, blacks don't universally equate gay rights with their struggle for civil rights and in fact there is a significant divide among them in their support or lack of support.

Me, personally - I do view gay rights as a civil rights issue.

And yet, I also find myself defending the opinions of those who, for their own strongly held religious beliefs, do not condone homosexuality and are not going to be muzzled about expressing those beliefs.

Here we get down to the Duck Dynasty type controversy. I hate what that guy said - and think he said it very crudely - but I accept - and yes even tolerate - what I view as an intolerant religious attitude.

The bottom line for me is accepting that - yes, people feel that way - and their views are not invalid - though I hope their views remain just that - and do not dictate the law of the land.

Equal rights under law. Let God determine the rest.

Isn't saying the right an anti-gay has to make hurtful comments about gays is acceptable the same as saying a racist has a right to make racist comments?
If the anti-gay people organized themselves into one group, such as the KKK, is that acceptable?

 

[Ring 6]

You can accept them.
Or you can disown them.
It sounds like you would disown them.

The silence of the response to this speaks volumes.

 

[condon84]

The silence of the response to this speaks volumes.

If you had a choice for your son to be gay or straight, what would you prefer?

 

[Boogs]

The silence of the response to this speaks volumes.

Or I went to Wal-Mart.

 

[Boogs]

You can accept them.
Or you can disown them.
It sounds like you would disown them.

I would not support the actions, but I would love my son.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Isn't saying the right an anti-gay has to make hurtful comments about gays is acceptable the same as saying a racist has a right to make racist comments?
If the anti-gay people organized themselves into one group, such as the KKK, is that acceptable?

I think you are confusing free speech with civil rights.

You cannot stop people from making racist or offensive comments.

And I don't think you can stop like minded people from organizing - or disband them or their churches if they find that they are like minded.

I don't think the law allows such groups or individuals to advocate for crimes to be committed - but nor does the Constitution allow "status crimes" which would make it a criminal offense for an individual to be a member of the church or the KKK

And this might surprise you, but the KKK itself (well, the various incarnations that make up various KKK type groups) are legal organizations - and in fact there is a well known Supreme Court case involving the KKK and their right to assemble and excerise free speech

So no, it may come as a shock to some, but you cannot stop a church or organization from "making hurtful comments"

So yes - legally it is very much "acceptable" under law for them to assemble or make such comments - and I highly doubt that Gay Rights advocates are going to waste their time trying to stop them

 

[Ring 6]

If you had a choice for your son to be gay or straight, what would you prefer?

I don't have that choice. My children are what they are and I support them.

 

[Ring 6]

I would not support the actions, but I would love my son.

Then you would essentially disown your son.

 

[Ring 6]

I think you are confusing free speech with civil rights.

You cannot stop people from making racist or offensive comments.

And I don't think you can stop like minded people from organizing - or disband them or their churches if they find that they are like minded.

I don't think the law allows such groups or individuals to advocate for crimes to be committed - but nor does the Constitution allow "status crimes" which would make it a criminal offense for an individual to be a member of the church or the KKK

And this might surprise you, but the KKK itself (well, the various incarnations that make up various KKK type groups) are legal organizations - and in fact there is a well known Supreme Court case involving the KKK and their right to assemble and excerise free speech

So no, it may come as a shock to some, but you cannot stop a church or organization from "making hurtful comments"

So yes - legally it is very much "acceptable" under law for them to assemble or make such comments - and I highly doubt that Gay Rights advocates are going to waste their time trying to stop them

I am not talking about legal rights, I am talking about what is right and wrong.
Yes I can stand on the corner and call every black person the N word without getting arrested, but that doesn't make it right. It also cannot be done in a school or workplace, so there are more legal issues than freedom of speech.

I think it is silly in this day and age with all of the examples we have seen of the negative impact on (especially young) gay people of people singling them out because they are different, being abusive to them, and of equal importance, people trumpeting about how immoral they are when it really is none of their business.

 

[PP2]

I'll teach hetero sex has to wait until marriage. I see homo sex as always unnatural and immoral. But both are wrong for kids the way I'll raise them. Hopefully I don't have to address the homosexual aspect.

So you are discriminating.


If you had one straight son and one gay son, you would encourage one to get married, and discourage the other one from doing anything, correct?

 

[PP2]

If they don't want help, there is nothing you can do.

That is not help you are offering them.

You are not even aware of your bigotry. That is the worst kind of bigot.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I would not support the actions, but I would love my son.

This is the typical "hate this sin but love the sinner" statement.

I don't claim to fully understand the statement - but I know those who speak it - and there are many - do so sincerely

However, some seem to believe this statement absolves them from the sin of making hateful comments - it doesn't

And some seem to believe it justifies their view of advocating for different rights for those with different sexual orientation - it doesn't

So while I fully tolerate your religious views and take exception with those who would muzzle you - I draw the line when such views are used to justify unequal treatment under law

 

[PP2]

Although a great many dispute the contention, there were strong indications that Prop 8 in CA went down in part because of the lack of support of African American voters, and others contend that the hispanic vote did Prop 8 in as well

Prop 8 Sparks Gay-Black Divide - ABC News

You'll find articles contesting this as well citing 70% support among blacks for Prop 8 (I would contend that 30% opposition among African Americans for a civil rights issue DOES indicate that a significant number of blacks don't equate gay civil rights with racial civil rights - especially when you're talking about a population that HAS been discriminated against

For Latinos it's a cultural thing - the "machismo" attitudes aren't exactly welcoming for an hombre who announces he likes other hombres

I think there were also reports via Frank Ocean that his fellow rappers and musicians don't want to work with him because he's gay

So I think it is firmly established that no, blacks don't universally equate gay rights with their struggle for civil rights and in fact there is a significant divide among them in their support or lack of support.

Me, personally - I do view gay rights as a civil rights issue.

And yet, I also find myself defending the opinions of those who, for their own strongly held religious beliefs, do not condone homosexuality and are not going to be muzzled about expressing those beliefs.

Here we get down to the Duck Dynasty type controversy. I hate what that guy said - and think he said it very crudely - but I accept - and yes even tolerate - what I view as an intolerant religious attitude.

The bottom line for me is accepting that - yes, people feel that way - and their views are not invalid - though I hope their views remain just that - and do not dictate the law of the land.

Equal rights under law. Let God determine the rest.

You are free to think and say what you want.

But you do not have the right to tell another person that who he or she is, or their way of life, is wrong.

That is not free speech.

That is suppression, the very thing that drove our forefathers out of England.

Actually it was religious suppression that drove them out.

 

[PP2]

I would not support the actions, but I would love my son.

No gay son would love a father who told him his way of life was wrong.