Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassment'

[DaBruinz]

It doesn't seem they did anything to stop him, if some people think that he's crossing the line you confront that person about it, you don't go outside the group and cry.

You clearly aren't well informed on the matter. There was a COACH invloved in the bullying. Maybe you should actually read the report and understand all the different parties involved before you post on the subject further.

Incognito took it outside the group by leaving the threatening messages on Martin's home and cell phones. But you seem to think that's normal. I have news for you, it isn't. It's against the law.

And Martin DID stand up for himself before going "outside the group". You'd know that if you took even a few minutes to read the Wells report.

 

[Deus Irae]

After being informed that his teammate/friend was contemplating suicide, Incognito continued to relentlessly mock the guy and allowed others to do the same.

Again, I'm not against locker room culture and lowbrow humor, but there were red flags all over this situation. If anything, this quote completely destroys your position that nobody knew anything was wrong, and nobody could have been reasonably expected to know since he didn't tell them.

The fact that Incognito didn't take that conversation as a turning point, have his teammate's back, and try to actually help him, says a fair amount about the guy. I'd still take him on the Patriots, because he's really good at football and it seems that most of the locker room liked the guy and had his back. But it's clear that he's the kind of guy that needs to be policed in the locker room. When you go in the polar opposite direction and allow someone like him to set the tone of the locker room... well, you get the 2013 Dolphins.

Where are you getting the notion that Incognito didn't have Martin's back? It's made quite clear in the report that the opposite was true.

As for the suicide thing:

Incognito says that Martin’s entire story of alleged harassment is inconsistent with their close personal relationship — which was so close, in fact, that Martin felt comfortable revealing to Incognito details of his struggle with mental health issues
and his contemplation of suicide. In doing so, however, Incognito claimed, Martin
never suggested his troubles related to his treatment by his teammates — a fact that Martin did not dispute

 

[borg]

Lets cut to the cold reality that is in play here. Phase 2 is now complete. An NFL funded investigation has identified culprits, assigned degrees of blame....and all that is left for the Martin Retirement Account is the hefty settlement he will be receiving from one or more entities. Well played by Martin and his parents. They identified an easy mark, gave him enough rope, and let him hang himself ...and the Dolphins. And being part of a multi-billion dollar entity....beautiful.
The only question is....Who was happier....Robin Givens meeting Mike Tyson....or Martin meeting Incognito
Yeah.....cold....but so isn't the real world....and we are programmed to survive

 

[DaBruinz]

And Tannehill... and Hartline... and Clabo... and Wallace.

Not citing other players that were involved with backing Incognito destroys your argument.

Except that it doesn't destroy anything. But, nice try there. Maybe you should actually read the report then come back and talk. It would help you to be informed.

 

[BradyManny]

I see you conveniently chose to ignore the part about that tweet that was actually important. I bolded it for you. There's nothing there about being teased or bullied, though...

Um, no, the important part of that tweet was that Incognito's teammate was thinking about ending his life. The rest of that sentence really doesn't matter. He could've said "I'm thinking about killing myself because Breaking Bad is ending." Or "I'm thinking about killing myself because our uniforms are ugly." It doesn't matter. Any remotely rational person would've seen that as a sign of mental instability.

But, how embarrassing of you to actually agree with Incognito's childish and ridiculous use of that tweet to actually condone his behavior when to any sane person it does just the opposite.

 

[DaBruinz]

No, that's not the whole point. Dear God, what has become of this country? First, there is a right to free speech, but not a right to not be offended. Second, Martin himself wrote to his father that he wasn't letting his teammates know that he had a problem with this stuff.

You're demanding both a non-existent right and that people immediately develop mental telepathy.

Sorry, Deus, but Martin DID let them know to knock it off. And they refused. In fact, it got worse. The Wells report even says so.

The Right to Free Speech doesn't give you the right to say demeaning things to another person without consequence. And the consequence are what is coming for Incognito, Pouncey, Jerry and Turner.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Where are you getting the notion that Incognito didn't have Martin's back? It's made quite clear in the report that the opposite was true.

Are you serious?

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Wells Report

Have you played football, at the high school level or beyond?

I've played hockey up through the college level. So please stow your garbage. Talking about family was crossing the line and you certainly didn't talk about raping a teammates sister or killing a teammate's mother.

The fact that you think any of that is even close to alright speaks really poorly on you.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Re: Wells Report

I wrote "high school or beyond", and I'll assume that the answer for you is no.

You're trying to judge something you have no experience in and simply don't understand.

Are you being purposely thick? I took chemistry in HS and college does that give me experience at being a chemist? Things change when one joins a professional workforce.

 

[chasa]

Re: Wells Report

Talking about family was crossing the line

I saw we are the titans and they made all kinds of yo mama jokes

 

[BradyManny]

No you don't. All you know is the Patriots never had a player walk out on the team and claim they were harassed. The exact same incidents could have happened and no one too them as Martin did. No other Dolphin walked out or reported anything.

Again, the burden of proof is on you to suggest this is the norm. Belichick's comments and former players comments suggest it is not. Where is your proof?

 

[Deus Irae]

Are you serious?

Yes, I'm serious. As I said, it's in the report that Incognito had Martin's back and was his friend. Also, the dates of claims of contemplated suicide were January 6, 2013 and May 5, 2013, and he went to Turner after the second date. Note this:

According to Martin, he told Turner that he had anxiety about football in a general sense , but he intentionally did not tell Turner that he was depressed because of the treatment by his teammates and his inability to confront them, which he viewed as a personal flaw.

So, he tells Turner it's football, doesn't say anything about the treatment by the teammates, goes to see a shrink and gets put on medication. Then there's this:

Martin also told Will Yeatman, his close friend and his roommate during road trips, about his battle with depression and suicidal thoughts. Again, however, Martin did not tell Yeatman that he felt beaten down by
vulgar or insulting comments from other players.

Why are we demanding telepathic ability from Incognito?

 

[AzorianPats]

Except that it doesn't destroy anything. But, nice try there. Maybe you should actually read the report then come back and talk. It would help you to be informed.

Love how "player A" in the report was a o linemen but still Incognito, Pouncey and Jerry still managed to at one point pin him to the ground, and basically pretend to pork him in his booty hole in front of the whole locker room.....

Yet people still want to wonder why small ass guys like Hartline still kiss Incognito ass. If they did that to "Player A" another 300lbs o linemen, they would literally make a barely 200lbs WR there GF.

 

[unoriginal]

In my high school lockeroom, people were called all kinds of homophobic slurs....I did not particularly care for that and I am not sure how that keeps people together. I certainly would not stand for it in my locker room as a coach.

It helps keep the people who matter together. Pushing out people who don't fit in is team building. Being inclusive sabatoges the "us-against-the-world" mentality.

There, I've summarized Coaching 101 at most levels. You'd probably understand it better if I was holding you by the jersey and screaming in your face.

 

[Deus Irae]

Um, no, the important part of that tweet was that Incognito's teammate was thinking about ending his life. The rest of that sentence really doesn't matter. He could've said "I'm thinking about killing myself because Breaking Bad is ending." Or "I'm thinking about killing myself because our uniforms are ugly." It doesn't matter. Any remotely rational person would've seen that as a sign of mental instability.

But, how embarrassing of you to actually agree with Incognito's childish and ridiculous use of that tweet to actually condone his behavior when to any sane person it does just the opposite.

No, the importance of the tweet, in the context of bullying/harassment, is the part I bolded.

And what's embarassing is your ignoring the fact that Martin admittedly did not tell Turner, Yeatman or Incognito that the problem was the treatment by the players.

Then again, all your posts in this thread show a naivete that is striking and a P.C. bias that's obvious, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[mayoclinic]

It helps keep the people who matter together. Pushing out people who don't fit in is team building. Being inclusive sabatoges the "us-against-the-world" mentality.

There, I've summarized Coaching 101 at most levels.

Very sad and sick.

 

[BradyManny]

Why are we demanding telepathic ability from Incognito?

Oh, shoot, you're right, I forgot it's pretty normal to harass the crap out of somebody after they tell you they are thinking about offing themselves. Yeah, Incognito did nothing wrong here.

 

[Ring 6]

LOL! Are you seriously trying to justify this whole thing by saying that the OL got better without them! My goodness.

Surely your reading comprehension isnt that poor.
You claim it hurt the team.
I stated there is no evidence of that, other than 2 players not being there, and there loss didn't seem to hurt either.
How you get that this justifies 'the whole thing' is mind boggling.

First off, what's normal in an NFL locker room does not equate to being normal in real life. There is nothing normal about the things Incognito said to Martin, and in any other environment, we wouldn't even be having this debate.

Again, you are making my argument. Ive said the same thing almost word for word.

I said that inappropriate comments happen in every NFL locker room - I object to accepting that Belichick lets players get singled out. There's no evidence for it, the burden of proof is on you to suggest that not only is that the norm, but that it happens in the Patriots locker room. Belichick's statements, statements of former players, etc. are on my side. Your half-assed best guess of the situation is all of your evidence. Please try better.

No, you said BB would not allow it. You have absolutely no evidence of that.
If we were having this discussion 6 months ago you could say Joe Philbin would never allow it. If Martin never walked out, you could be saying that today.
A lack of reporting of an event is not proof the event didn't occur.
I never said it has happened, I said it is incredulous of you to claim you know it didnt or couldnt. You know absolutely zero about how all Patriot players interact with each other in private.
I don't have to 'try better' I am on the right side of this one.

Ultiamtely, there were grown-ups in the room (that may or may not include the players) who should've recognized what was going on and that a line had been crossed, and that it was affecting the team. Martin claims he never told anyone about his mental health, but Incognito's own statements contradict this.

Martin never told anyone it was bothering him.
The N word was used TWICE. Once in the infamous text, and once at a function.
So your argument is now that the Dolphins should have acted on jokes about having sex with his sister (which appears to be the chief complaint) made in the locker room because in that setting it is obvious that the player does not have a sense of humor about it and it was affecting the team?

How was it affecting the team?

He told Incognito he thought of killing himself because of his poor play, not because of any treatment.
You do realize that the half-n piece of shlt, phone message was because Martin wasn't at an OTA right? You do realize that if a player said his poor play made him suicidal, forcing him to work harder is helping him right?
I'm not saying his method was good, but you are the one saying he knew of mental issues, and are apparently ignoring the cause of the call was that the guy who said he has mental problems because he is playing poorly was sitting home instead of at an OTA.

 

[mayoclinic]

Dear God, what has become of this country?

Gee, maybe we should just roll the clock back to the good old days of segregation, or before women's suffrage. Sounds like a nirvana.

The right to free speech has never been absolute.

 

[dales804]

Re: Wells Report

I am really quite surprised at the posts in this thread. I played sports my entire life and while there is plenty of joking in locker rooms, what is written in that report goes way beyond what was ever deemed acceptable in the locker rooms I was a part of. Yes, there are the homophobic slurs, the joking and pranks. But you could tell it was good natured. I don't see how picking (harassing) on a player repeatedly is "team building."

As for the teammates "backing" Incognito last November, I'd be curious what those teammates would say now, after all this information has been made public.