My Blueprint for the Defense

[All22PatsFan]

Defense
RDE: Jones, Buchanan
NT: Wilfork, Siliga, Supoga
DT: Kelly, Armstead, Jones
LDE: Ninkovich, Bequette
WLB: Mayo, Beauharnus
MLB: Hightower
SLB: Collins
CB: Dennard, Green
CB: Arrington, Ryan
FS: McCourty, Harmon, Ebner
SS: Gregory, Harmon, Wilson's

Major Needs:
#1 CB (Talib is a FA)
DT (Kelly coming off ACL)
DE (Jones, Ninko could use a alternating body)

Depth needs:
LB (Fletcher is a FA)
5th CB (Justin Green could be the guy)

Notes:
-Siliga can start at NT
- Talib, Grimes, Davis, DRC, Munnerlyn all options at CB
- Alex Carrington (DT) and Everson Griffen (DE) could be cheap options
- Double dip at LB (Draft and FA)
- Gregory an Harmon will likely have a camp battle to see who starts at SS

Potential Cuts with repacements
1. Supoga (Vellano)
2. Adrain Wilson (Draft)
3. Tommy Kelly (Carrington)
4. Tavon Wilson (Draft)
5. Wilfork (Siliga)
6. Gregory (Harmon)
7. Bequette (Griffen)

 

[mayoclinic]

Drew Boylhart of the Huddle Report has the Pats going defense in all 3 rounds of a 3 round mock, but I hate the picks:

29. Bradley Roby, CB, Ohio St.
62. Da'Quan Jones, DT, Penn St.
93. EJ Gaines, CB, Missouri.

I know Manx likes Roby, but I don't see him as a 1st round talent, and Da'Quan Jones looked really soft at the Senior Bowl.

Some of the other picks:

17. Timmy Jernigan, DT, Florida St.
18. Eric Ebron, TE, North Carolina.
26. Calvin Pryor, S, Louisville.
27. Ra'Shede Hageman, DT, Minnesota.
--------------------------------------------
30. Stephon Tuitt, DT/DE, Notre Dame.
32. Aaron Donald, DT, Pittsburgh. I would uke: if we took Roby at 29 with Donald and the board, and the Seahawks took Donald at 32.
36. Jace Amaro, TE, Texas Tech.
40. Kyle Van Noy, LB, BYU.
44. Deone Buchannon, S, Washington St.
51. Kyle Fuller, DB, Virginia Tech.
58. Austin Seferian-Jenkins, TE, Washington.
63. Marcus Smith, DE/OLB, Louisville.
71. Travis Swanson, OC, Arkansas.
73. Christian Jones, LB, Florida St.
86. Troy Niklas, TE, Notre Dame.
94. Stanley Jean-Baptiste, CB, Nebraska.

Give me Donald at 29, Marcus Smith/Christian Jones at 62 and Stanley Jean-Baptiste at 93 in an all-defense mock. Or, to accommodate the need at TE, a slight trade up in either the 2nd for Austin Seferian-Jenkins or the 3rd for Troy Niklas.

Donald-Smith/Jones-Niklas would work really nicely for me.

 

[mayoclinic]

From a thread on the main board:

Go get a bunch of athletes on the defensive side of the ball, more than you think you'll ever need, and worry about playing time later. Come January/February, we'll be happy.

Hallelujah.

 

[everlong]

Drew Boylhart of the Huddle Report has the Pats going defense in all 3 rounds of a 3 round mock, but I hate the picks:

29. Bradley Roby, CB, Ohio St.
62. Da'Quan Jones, DT, Penn St.
93. EJ Gaines, CB, Missouri.

Honestly Bill hasn't done very well overall with Saban and Meyer picks and I don't see Roby as a first round value either.

32. Aaron Donald, DT, Pittsburgh. I would uke: if we took Roby at 29 with Donald and the board, and the Seahawks took Donald at 32.
40. Kyle Van Noy, LB, BYU.
58. Austin Seferian-Jenkins, TE, Washington.
63. Marcus Smith, DE/OLB, Louisville.
73. Christian Jones, LB, Florida St.
94. Stanley Jean-Baptiste, CB, Nebraska.

I would be happy with Donald, Van Noy or ASJ at 29, then Smith or Jones in the second and Baptiste in the 3rd. That would be pretty epic. If I knew Smith and Jones would be there in the second you take Donald or ASJ for sure in the first.

 

[mayoclinic]

I would be happy with Donald, Van Noy or ASJ at 29, then Smith or Jones in the second and Baptiste in the 3rd. That would be pretty epic. If I knew Smith and Jones would be there in the second you take Donald or ASJ for sure in the first.

If all 3 are available I take Donald (assuming Hageman and Jernigan are gone). I think there's a decent chance one of Smith/Jones will be on the board at 62, or a TE like Niklas.

Donald - Smith/Jones - Jean-Baptiste would be pretty dreamy for me. Add Richard Rodgers in the 4th and some late round values, and I'd be thrilled. That would probably presume that OL is addressed prior to the draft.

 

[captain stone]

Nix would be intesting if we knew Vince would return to form. You throw the two wide bodies in the middle and effectively play a 2-5-4 or 2-4-5 where the DE's are standing up a lot and you shift defensive fronts at will. You let those two eat up all the blockers in the run game and pick up some more speed at the LB position and let them make plays. But without knowing about Vince I'd rather one of the pass rushing DTs.

If Wilfork remains, then I have no use for Nix; Siliga should provide adequate backup.

If Wilfork is released, then Nix becomes a distinct possibility.

I agree that a DT who can rush the QB would provide more of what we need.

 

[everlong]

If Wilfork remains, then I have no use for Nix; Siliga should provide adequate backup.

If Wilfork is released, then Nix becomes a distinct possibility.

I agree that a DT who can rush the QB would provide more of what we need.

In a 4-3 I agree. In a 2 fatty front middle you load on on speed everywhere else and assume they'll dominate the middle.

 

[mayoclinic]

If Wilfork remains, then I have no use for Nix; Siliga should provide adequate backup.

If Wilfork is released, then Nix becomes a distinct possibility.

I agree that a DT who can rush the QB would provide more of what we need.

In a 4-3 I agree. In a 2 fatty front middle you load on on speed everywhere else and assume they'll dominate the middle.

I agree with both of you.

If Wilfork comes back, or if we get someone like Linval Joseph, then we have no need for Nix in a 4-3 hybrid scheme.

But to run a semi-ameboid 2-4-5 scheme you need 2 really stout guys in the middle. Wilfork/Joseph + Siliga would probably be adequate unless you are planning on running a lot of that. I personally still wouldn't go for Nix given that there are much cheaper altneratives who can provide that kind of presence - Justin Ellis, Zach Kerr and Beau Allen come to mind.

 

[manxman2601]

It came off as more than that coupled with your comment in another thread that people need to stop trashing the defense. All I said was they haven't drafted a pure pass rusher. IMO they haven't I would like one. That doesn't mean I'm trashing the players or coaches.

So again do you think they'll actually even consider Donald?

No I don't think Donald will get drafted. If I was trying to predict a Patriots big board, I'd probably leave Donald off. He just doesn't fit as a BB type.

But yes, I do think far too many people are a) too defense focused and b) too negative about BB and this defense. The defense has made tremendous strides the las couple of years. Four of the last first round or first picks have been defensive picks. They've added McCourty as a safety who is arguably just behind Earl Thomas as safeties go, they've added a shutdown corner in Talib and a quality #2 in Dennard. They've added a pass rusher who has shown glimpses that he can one of the better ones in the league and they've added one of the most explosive and athletic players in the NFL in Jamie Collins. Oh yes, throw in signing two 3-techs in Tommy Kelly and Armstead. I'm very high on Kelly and hopeful on Armstead. To expect BB to have done more than that strikes me as being unrealistic and every level of the defense has been upgraded.

 

[mayoclinic]

With South Dakota LB Tyler Starr (27 sacks) reportedly running a 6.29 3-cone at 6' 4 1/2" 250#, my dream of getting 2 really athletic LBs just got a jolt.

I'd love to see something like the following:

- Address Wilfork situation/sign Linval Joseph, re-sign Talib, and sign a TE like Pettigrew/Gresham (if cut) in FA.

1. DT: Timmy Jernigan/Ra'Shede Hageman/Aaron Donald.
2. LB Marcus Smith/Christian Jones.
- trade 3 for a 4th and 5th.
4a. C: Marcus Martin (doubt Weston Richburg will be around).
4b. TE: Richard Rodgers.
6. DE: Brent Urban or Taylor Hart.
6 (comp). LB: Tyler Starr.
7. DB: Dontae Johnson / Jonathan Dowling.

That would add a ton of athleticism and speed to the defense.

The piece de la resistance would be to sign someone like DE Michael Johnson as a FA, but that won't happen; Will Smith as a low priced veteran depth signing is more likely, and might be enough given the athleticism at the other positions:

DT: Wilfork/Joseph - Jernigan/Hageman/Donald - Siliga - Chris Jones - Armstead
DE: Chandler Jones - Ninkovich - Will Smith - Buchanan - Hart/Urban
LB: Mayo - Hightower - Collins - Smith/Jones - Starr (possibly Fletcher)
S: McCourty - Gregory/TWilson - Harmon - Exum - Ebner
CB: Talib - Dennard - Ryan - Arrington - Johnson/Dowling

Gone: Adrian Wilson, Andre Carter, Jake Bequette, one of Steve Gregory (cap cut)/Tavon Wilson, Joe Vellano.

 

[Off The Grid]

From a thread on the main board:

Go get a bunch of athletes on the defensive side of the ball, more than you think you'll ever need, and worry about playing time later. Come January/February, we'll be happy.

Hallelujah.

Amen.

I've been screaming for Depth of Talent every Year since the mid-14th Century, yet every Year I'm beset with "Whose Snaps would they steal?" and "At that point, we're just drafting for other Teams."

And then every Year the inevitable Injuries and assorted Attrition happen, and every Winter we fall a Gronkowski, a Talib, and/or a Wilfork or an Hernandez short of winning the Super Bowl.

But, no: I'm not bitter. :snob:

 

[everlong]

No I don't think Donald will get drafted. If I was trying to predict a Patriots big board, I'd probably leave Donald off. He just doesn't fit as a BB type.

I agree.

But yes, I do think far too many people are a) too defense focused and b) too negative about BB and this defense.

I don't think it's negativity. I just think Bill needs to adjust like he did on the offensive side of the ball. Give up a little size for a little speed. Penetrate more and contain less.

The defense has made tremendous strides the las couple of years. Four of the last first round or first picks have been defensive picks.

Well really last year was the big jump but I'll grant after they picked up Talib they were much improved in 2012.

They've added McCourty as a safety who is arguably just behind Earl Thomas as safeties go, they've added a shutdown corner in Talib and a quality #2 in Dennard.

Much like the offense without Gronk the defense isn't the same without Talib. Problem is he's going to want to get paid and I don't know if you can pay a guy who can't stay on the field.

They've added a pass rusher who has shown glimpses that he can one of the better ones in the league and they've added one of the most explosive and athletic players in the NFL in Jamie Collins.

Collins is what I'm talking about. I loved him last year and didn't think Bill would take him so I didn't bother picking him in the draft game. If they add a Van Noy or Jones to go with Mayo that would be a playing making machine at LB.

Oh yes, throw in signing two 3-techs in Tommy Kelly and Armstead. I'm very high on Kelly and hopeful on Armstead. To expect BB to have done more than that strikes me as being unrealistic and every level of the defense has been upgraded.

Kelly future is cloudy and we know nothing of Armstead.

Sorry if I came off aggressive in my reply yesterday. I just think you can say I want Bill to get even faster and employ a more aggressive scheme without being labeled negative or that you're bashing the defense. I think they've made strides I just want to take it to the next level. What they do on the offensive side where they're dictating the matchups that's what I want for the defense. You can't do that without play-makers.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I don't think it's negativity. I just think Bill needs to adjust like he did on the offensive side of the ball. Give up a little size for a little speed. Penetrate more and contain less.

Agreed. I think the current BB model of defense was formed in his NY Giant days when the rules were more friendly to the defense and less friendly to the passing game. The 'bend but don't break' defense generally just results in 'bleed and just keep bleeding'.

If you cannot get pressure and disrupt the offense, whether it's being driven primarily by the QB or the RB, you'll eventually fail.

 

[mayoclinic]

If you cannot get pressure and disrupt the offense, whether it's being driven primarily by the QB or the RB, you'll eventually fail.

Amen. And to go even further, I'd like to reiterate post #5 from this thread:

The key to good defense is to show the offense no respect and flat out bully them for the entire time you're on the field.

You're either the hunter or the hunted. Show "respect" and you'll get disemboweled.

 

[manxman2601]

Being just about the only one on one side of the argument is not making this process a lot of fun. So out of respect to you all, and to ensure my continued enjoyment, I think I'll duck out of this and any discussion about team makeup and just discuss the draft prospects.

I'm not throwing a tantrum, it just isn't fun to disagree constantly with people you respect or visa versa, have them disagree with you.

 

[mayoclinic]

Being just about the only one on one side of the argument is not making this process a lot of fun. So out of respect to you all, and to ensure my continued enjoyment, I think I'll duck out of this and any discussion about team makeup and just discuss the draft prospects.

I'm not throwing a tantrum, it just isn't fun to disagree constantly with people you respect or visa versa, have them disagree with you.

But your opinion is valued, and your point of view is an important balance. I certainly didn't intend the thread to produce universal agreement. You've influenced my thoughts considerably on a number of defensive prospects so far.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Basically, if you take the film of the Seattle/Denver Superbowl - you get the blueprint of how defense MUST be played in the modern NFL to succeed. You need elite athletes, size, and toughness on the defense. You need bullies on D, who disrupt, cover, hit, and intimidate. It's just a whole new level out there.

The Seattle defense I saw in the 2013 Superbowl just flat out impresses me more than any top defense I've seen in the last 10 years. It might be unrealistic to think you can transform your unit to that in a single offseason, but in 2 years? Maybe, if everything shakes out right.

And BB is no dummy. He knows he just saw a defensive gem of a game. He will pull his own insights out of it, and build an even more competitive team for next season.

 

[mayoclinic]

Basically, if you take the film of the Seattle/Denver Superbowl - you get the blueprint of how defense MUST be played in the modern NFL to succeed. You need elite athletes, size, and toughness on the defense. You need bullies on D, who disrupt, cover, hit, and intimidate. It's just a whole new level out there.

The Seattle defense I saw in the 2013 Superbowl just flat out impresses me more than any top defense I've seen in the last 10 years. It might be unrealistic to think you can transform your unit to that in a single offseason, but in 2 years? Maybe, if everything shakes out right.

And BB is no dummy. He knows he just saw a defensive gem of a game. He will pull his own insights out of it, and build an even more competitive team for next season.

What's frustrating to me personally is that I've been wanting the Pats to evolve in that general direction for at least 4 years. It's not new, and it didn't take Seattle winning a SB for some of us to feel that that general direction was what was needed. As Manx has noted, considerable resources have been expended on defense, but the overall evolution has been slower than I would have liked - probably a combination of some misses on player selections, injuries, and some hesitation in moving away from the past.

I think the next 3 months will give us a clear sign as to whether BB is ready to move into new territory or not. He's made some picks in the past 2 drafts which have shown some willingness to depart from the traditional mold (notably Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins), and Kontra has noted elsewhere that he's one-gapped this past season than in the past.

I don't think that we'll see BB completely abandoning his past, and I don't think it's necessary. But I think that if we see the Pats pick up some guys with serious speed on defense - Aaron Donald, Timmy Jernigan or Dominique Easley at DT, or Marcus Smith, Kyle Van Noy, Christian Jones or Tyler Starr at LB, for example - along with a bigger DB or two that it will send a strong signal that we're moving into new territory.

 

[Wilfork#75]

If Wilfork remains, then I have no use for Nix; Siliga should provide adequate backup.

If Wilfork is released, then Nix becomes a distinct possibility.

I agree that a DT who can rush the QB would provide more of what we need.

Would 1 year of Wilfork change your opinion of Nix? Personally Wilfork doesn't change my approach to the position because:

1. We don't know if he will be back at near the same level
2. He may only be back for one year.

Even if Wilfork comes back and plays at a high level in 2014 I don't think he will play long beyond that. If a player is there like Nix (who I personally think is the best NT in the draft since Ngata) then I take him in a heartbeat, Wilfork or not. Similarly there are no DT's currently on the roster that would even make me think about not taking a DT early because all of them have ?

 

[Wilfork#75]

Being just about the only one on one side of the argument is not making this process a lot of fun. So out of respect to you all, and to ensure my continued enjoyment, I think I'll duck out of this and any discussion about team makeup and just discuss the draft prospects.

I'm not throwing a tantrum, it just isn't fun to disagree constantly with people you respect or visa versa, have them disagree with you.

There is nothing wrong with being the only one on a side of an argument as long as you believe in it and can justify it. You clearly have your reasons for your viewpoints and I have nothing but respect for people that stick to what they believe in even if they are in the minority. I know I've been in that position plenty of times on this board in regards to certain players, but as long as you can make a logical and structure argument to support your viewpoint there is nothing wrong with that. You might not change peoples minds, but you will certainly facilitate healthy debate.