So, @RapSheet tells us Julian Edelman could be worth $7M/year on the open market

[50-yard-line]

You’re right, he was open on 1 play actually and Brady threw him the ball but he dropped it.



Where did you find this run blocking rating? Do you have a link or the rankings? Amendola is not that good of a run blocker; he is not even used in running situations most times.

If you look at posts #176 and #190 in this thread you will see that I stated in both that, I would not cut Amendola and I do not think the Patriots should cut Amendola.



If he is our #1 WR we will have major problems, let me remind you of something when Amendola was signed we had Aaron Hernandez on the team and Rob Gronkowski was healing up from a forearm injury. This year Hernandez is in jail and Gronkowski is recovering from a major knee injury, Belichick is the greatest coach of all-time if you really believe he would put his trust into Amendola to be the #1 target in this offense you are out of your freaking mind.

I am not sure why you're turning this thread into an Amendola defense thread anyway, he is relevant only in comparing contracts of recently signed slot WRs. His presence is not going to affect the decision to keep Edelman; they do not think Danny Amendola is a better player than Edelman if they did Edelman would not have been the starter.

Bottom line: would YOU pay 7 million for JE? Simple question.

When you quit ignoring the fact that the guy was playing with a torn groin, maybe you'll make more sense. And yes, the reason he didn't need surgery was because he had torn it completely. Both Yates and Reiss have been talking about this all year, how he was playing through pain. Groin pain will round routes and limit cuts - if you'd ever had one, you'd understand that. Same type of injury is also the reason why Arrington's performance slumped badly in the second half of the year.

You keep going back to a single Amendola quote that he's near 100%...yeah, because players don't always say things like that, right? Brady said the same thing when he was playing with torn ligaments in his hand. Quit being ridiculous. The guy didn't live up to expectations in year one, which is what you should probably expect if he suffered a torn groin in the first game.

I think Amendola and Edelman are very similar players. I don't know if there's room for them on the same field with a healthy Gronk and a second "move" TE. My expectation is that Edelman gets an Amendola-like contract, elsewhere. The Pats will probably use Collie and Boyce, or Boyce and Moe to back up DA.

 

[Brady6]

Bottom line: would YOU pay 7 million for JE? Simple question.

Honestly, I do not know if I would sign Edelman at that cost. I have to believe if Belichick gave Amendola $5.7M last season than the market merited that, and Edelman is worth someplace in that same neighborhood. I do not know what the “system” is, I also do not think it makes great players; I think that Edelman worked extremely hard since coming out of college to convert himself from a college QB to a very good NFL WR. I have no reason to believe that if Edelman is thrown 150 balls next year that he cannot duplicate or even improve on his performance. Edelman’s tenure as a WR is the equivalent of a 4 year college player after his rookie season in the NFL right now; nobody acknowledges that as a factor. Welker, Amendola, and the other WRs we have discussed all played WR in college they understood the position, how to read defense, route running, technique, etc. entering the NFL, Edelman did not have that same level of understanding. When you look at athletic ability and talent Edelman is better than either Amendola or Welker but the attributes and technique need to be learned and developed. The best way to learn and improve is repetition and this season was the first in which Edelman received consistent reps and as the season progressed, he improved dramatically.

Edelman played in 18 games this season total:

• Games 1-9: 74 targeted passes, 49 catches, 6 dropped passes, 66.20% catch ratio, 8.10% drop ratio, 473 receiving yards, 9.65 yards per catch, 2 touchdowns
• Games 9-18: 101 targeted passes, 72 catches, 2 dropped passes, 71.28% catch ratio, 1.9% drop ratio, 756 receiving yards, 10.5 yards per catch, 5 touchdowns

Personally I believe he developed as a player, I saw him draw pass interference calls on a regular basis, break off routes, etc. that I had not seen him do before, his entire maturation as WR was impressive in my opinion.

I think people look at Edelman and think of him as a lesser talent who was gifted the season he had, I do not look at him like that. I look at him as a player who had a ton of physical talent, who came into the NFL and had to learn a new position and was finally given a real opportunity to play starter reps this season and as the season progressed he became better and better.

So to answer your question if Edelman is the player that I saw in games 9-18 than yes I would pay him $7M if that is what the market merits. If you believe those games was an anomaly than you would be wise to let him walk. What I know is he was 1 of 5 players to catch 100 passes last season and the other 4 were all paid over $8 million annually.

• Andre Johnson – $9,685,714
• Brandon Marshall – $8,955,800
• Pierre Garcon – $8,500,000
• Antonio Brown – $8,392,000

Every one of those players was targeted more than Edelman so they were “the only weapon” as people like to say on their teams and that did not prevent them from getting a big payday.

 

[kennyb]

I wish I got a dollar every time you ignored context and responded to content only.

FTW said that Brown is miles more talented than Edelman or Garcon; I showed the combine #s to show that is untrue. I do not think they would have the NFL combine if that was not used to assess talent.



Spam?

I don’t know who Manny is.

As I said above the poster said, Brown was a mile more talented than Edelman was which is untrue. Production relies heavily on opportunity and Antonio Brown has had the opportunity over the past 3 years, Edelman has not until this year.

So your point is that brown is not more talented. At least not much more. And you base this off combine numbers.

Combine numbers don't mean squat after 5 years in the league. Play easily trumps combine numbers. The fact that they have a combine doesn't negate that fact.

 

[Brady6]

I think Amendola and Edelman are very similar players. I don't know if there's room for them on the same field with a healthy Gronk and a second "move" TE. My expectation is that Edelman gets an Amendola-like contract, elsewhere. The Pats will probably use Collie and Boyce, or Boyce and Moe to back up DA.

That will never happen in my opinion. If Belichick does not feel, they can play together and he can resign Edelman he will eat the dead money and cut Amendola this year. Edelman is going to be in a Patriots uniform for the next 4-5 years, and anyone doubting that is crazy, they’re not going to take away Brady’s top target 2 seasons in a row.

 

[Brady6]

So your point is that brown is not more talented. At least not much more. And you base this off combine numbers.

Combine numbers don't mean squat after 5 years in the league. Play easily trumps combine numbers. The fact that they have a combine doesn't negate that fact.

Had he said ability I would not have used the combine numbers but he specifically referred to talent, which is absolutely measured by the workout #s.

Athletic talent - A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

Besides what exactly makes Antonio Brown better than Edelman other than the fact that he received more opportunity in 2011 and 2012 than Edelman does did? Prior to this season he never caught more than 69 footballs in a season despite being targeted over 100 times in each of his last 3 season.

 

[naF staP]

$7 million for Edelman?? LMFAO!!

What idiot team would pay for that after only 1 season of production. I like Edelman, would like to see him stay a Patriot but $7 million? come on! Sad thing is the Pats over paid for Amendola, now they need to offer Edelman as much or more. Bad situation to be in.

Riley Cooper will be another WR a team will over pay for after just 1 good season.

 

[SteelersCanada]

I wish I got a dollar every time you ignored context and responded to content only.

FTW said that Brown is miles more talented than Edelman or Garcon; I showed the combine #s to show that is untrue. I do not think they would have the NFL combine if that was not used to assess talent.

Mike Williams says 'sup.

Combine numbers =/= talent.

Spam?

I don’t know who Manny is.

As I said above the poster said, Brown was a mile more talented than Edelman was which is untrue. Production relies heavily on opportunity and Antonio Brown has had the opportunity over the past 3 years, Edelman has not until this year.

Manny is Emmanuel Sanders. Sorry, that's Steelers talk. I should have clarified - my mistake.

That being said, the second part of your post is just flat out inaccurate. Brown was taken in 2010 and was buried behind Hines Ward and Mike Wallace on the depth chart when he joined. He was the third receiver and fourth read in our offense until this season when he got the number one receiver role. This was Brown's first year as our number one receiver. To say he's had more opportunity than Edelman is not only inaccurate, it's silly. Brown has done more than Edelman at this point because he's a better receiver and it's really not even close. In a pass heavy offense, Edelman didn't match Brown's catches or yardage and Brady was throwing him the ball. Julian, like every receiver Tom has had in the last decade (save for Randy) is a product of the system in which he plays.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

$7 million for Edelman?? LMFAO!!

What idiot team would pay for that after only 1 season of production. I like Edelman, would like to see him stay a Patriot but $7 million? come on! Sad thing is the Pats over paid for Amendola, now they need to offer Edelman as much or more. Bad situation to be in.

Riley Cooper will be another WR a team will over pay for after just 1 good season.

It wouldn't surprise me if he does get offered 7. Look what we paid for Amendola; and Amendola's heading into free agency wasn't anywhere close to what Edelman put up this past year.

And you're getting the best punt returner in the league.

I'm really hoping no one offers him more than 6. I'd be okay if we signed him for 6; happy if we signed him for under 5.

And Welker's season probably helps Edelman in that Welker basically proved it's not just the system and Brady (although in Welker's case it didn't hurt to have another HOF qb throwing to him).

 

[naF staP]

It wouldn't surprise me if he does get offered 7. Look what we paid for Amendola; and Amendola's heading into free agency wasn't anywhere close to what Edelman put up this past year.

And you're getting the best punt returner in the league.

I'm really hoping no one offers him more than 6. I'd be okay if we signed him for 6; happy if we signed him for under 5.

And Welker's season probably helps Edelman in that Welker basically proved it's not just the system and Brady (although in Welker's case it didn't hurt to have another HOF qb throwing to him).

Best punt returner in the league? There are several better then Edelman, he ave 10.7 yards this season, ranked 12th, didn't even have a TD return this year. His long was 47 yards, tied 17th with Brandon Tate. Not the best.

I just don't see anyone paying $7 million for him, if a team does then they can have him, better they spend that much $ on him and not the Pats. Use that $ to go get a WR who can work the middle and long field, liker Decker, and use Amendola at the slot.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Best punt returner in the league? There are several better then Edelman, he ave 10.7 yards this season, ranked 12th, didn't even have a TD return this year. His long was 47 yards, tied 17th with Brandon Tate. Not the best.



I just don't see anyone paying $7 million for him, if a team does then they can have him, better they spend that much $ on him and not the Pats. Use that $ to go get a WR who can work the middle and long field, liker Decker, and use Amendola at the slot.

I think this year he got his 75th punt and that put him at the best of all time if I am not mistaken.

 

[Brady6]

That being said, the second part of your post is just flat out inaccurate. Brown was taken in 2010 and was buried behind Hines Ward and Mike Wallace on the depth chart when he joined. He was the third receiver and fourth read in our offense until this season when he got the number one receiver role. This was Brown's first year as our number one receiver. To say he's had more opportunity than Edelman is not only inaccurate, it's silly. Brown has done more than Edelman at this point because he's a better receiver and it's really not even close. In a pass heavy offense, Edelman didn't match Brown's catches or yardage and Brady was throwing him the ball. Julian, like every receiver Tom has had in the last decade (save for Randy) is a product of the system in which he plays.

You are clearly a Steelers fan, which makes me wonder why you are in a Patriots fan forum, either way you are making the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. You lean on Brown being buried behind Hines Ward and Mike Wallace.

Edelman had to play behind –

• Randy Moss
• Wes Welker
• Rob Gronkowski
• Aaron Hernandez
• Deion Branch
• Brandon Lloyd
• Chad Johnson

Along with Taylor Price and Brandon Tate who were both high draft picks.

As far as the system goes, I will ask you the same question I asked the others who suggest he is a product of a system.

1. What is the system exactly?
2. How does the system work?
3. What part of the system benefits Edelman (and the others)?

I do not believe there is a system, but if there is one what exactly is wrong with being able to execute a system? I am sure every single NFL team could be considered a system, a player being able to understand that system. In addition, if the system was such an easy system why have so many WRs failed to be able to succeed in it in recent years? That is such a BS claim in my opinion, if we could just plug anyone into the system we would not have went out and spent so much money on Danny Amendola we would have just plugged Jeremy Ebert into it.

 

[SteelersCanada]

You are clearly a Steelers fan, which makes me wonder why you are in a Patriots fan forum, either way you are making the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. You lean on Brown being buried behind Hines Ward and Mike Wallace.

Edelman had to play behind –

• Randy Moss
• Wes Welker
• Rob Gronkowski
• Aaron Hernandez
• Deion Branch
• Brandon Lloyd
• Chad Johnson

Along with Taylor Price and Brandon Tate who were both high draft picks.

As far as the system goes, I will ask you the same question I asked the others who suggest he is a product of a system.

1. What is the system exactly?
2. How does the system work?
3. What part of the system benefits Edelman (and the others)?

I do not believe there is a system, but if there is one what exactly is wrong with being able to execute a system? I am sure every single NFL team could be considered a system, a player being able to understand that system. In addition, if the system was such an easy system why have so many WRs failed to be able to succeed in it in recent years? That is such a BS claim in my opinion, if we could just plug anyone into the system we would not have went out and spent so much money on Danny Amendola we would have just plugged Jeremy Ebert into it.

So, let's start with the whole "playing behind Gronkowski" thing - no, he didn't. Edelman isn't a Tight End. Is Rob the first look in the Patriots offense? Sure. Is he ahead of Edelman on the depth chart? Nope. That's like saying Heath Miller is ahead of Emmanuel Sanders. If we're talking first or second reads, your argument would be completely valid. We're talking the depth chart here and Gronkowski and Hernandez are irrelevant. Also, behind Chad Johnson? Really? The guy that registered 15(?) catches for 280-ish yards?

I didn't realize it was a "ridiculous argument" to pose by saying Brown hadn't had an opportunity to be the first read in our offense until this season. He was buried behind a Hall of Fame receiver and a receiver that is now the third highest paid in the league. He wasn't even the third read in our offense as Heath Miller was often times the second read. So, that's Miller, Hines and Wallace.

But no, because Edelman's combine numbers were better than Brown's, he's obviously the better receiver. If you squint your eyes, ignore all production, accolades and common sense, this argument starts to make sense.

 

[Brady6]

I think this year he got his 75th punt and that put him at the best of all time if I am not mistaken.

That is what I saw too. I think that is one of the more undervalued aspects of Edelman’s game. Consider that the Patriots spent $1.3 million in the offseason to sign Leon Washington.

Julian Edelman Now Holds NFL Record For Punt Return Average (13 yards) | Yardbarker.com

 

[Brady6]

So, let's start with the whole "playing behind Gronkowski" thing - no, he didn't. Edelman isn't a Tight End. Is Rob the first look in the Patriots offense? Sure. Is he ahead of Edelman on the depth chart? Nope. That's like saying Heath Miller is ahead of Emmanuel Sanders. If we're talking first or second reads, your argument would be completely valid. We're talking the depth chart here and Gronkowski and Hernandez are irrelevant. Also, behind Chad Johnson? Really? The guy that registered 15(?) catches for 280-ish yards?

I was speaking in terms of opportunity in the offense. We ran a two TE set, which reduced the use of a three WR formation, so it did affect the opportunity Edelman received.

Chad Johnson’s failure does not change the fact that the Patriots trade for him and prioritized implementing him into the offense over Julian Edelman.

I didn't realize it was a "ridiculous argument" to pose by saying Brown hadn't had an opportunity to be the first read in our offense until this season. He was buried behind a Hall of Fame receiver and a receiver that is now the third highest paid in the league. He wasn't even the third read in our offense as Heath Miller was often times the second read. So, that's Miller, Hines and Wallace.

It is just stupid that you say this is the first season Brown had the opportunity to be a first read in the Steelers offense when you are diminishing Edelman’s season, which was also his first opportunity to be a top read in this offense. Say that aloud to yourself and tell me if you do not sound like a hypercritic.

But no, because Edelman's combine numbers were better than Brown's, he's obviously the better receiver. If you squint your eyes, ignore all production, accolades and common sense, this argument starts to make sense.

I do not ignore anything I am not diminishing Brown at all, the poster FTW said that Brown was a superior talent – he is not a superior talent. Currently he is a more productive player but that is it.

Brown was 6th round draft pick, who was an All-American WR in college. Edelman was a 7th round draft pick who was a QB in college.

 

[Brady6]

So, let's start with the whole "playing behind Gronkowski" thing - no, he didn't. Edelman isn't a Tight End. Is Rob the first look in the Patriots offense? Sure. Is he ahead of Edelman on the depth chart? Nope. That's like saying Heath Miller is ahead of Emmanuel Sanders. If we're talking first or second reads, your argument would be completely valid. We're talking the depth chart here and Gronkowski and Hernandez are irrelevant. Also, behind Chad Johnson? Really? The guy that registered 15(?) catches for 280-ish yards?

I didn't realize it was a "ridiculous argument" to pose by saying Brown hadn't had an opportunity to be the first read in our offense until this season. He was buried behind a Hall of Fame receiver and a receiver that is now the third highest paid in the league. He wasn't even the third read in our offense as Heath Miller was often times the second read. So, that's Miller, Hines and Wallace.

But no, because Edelman's combine numbers were better than Brown's, he's obviously the better receiver. If you squint your eyes, ignore all production, accolades and common sense, this argument starts to make sense.

In addition, I noticed you did not answer my question about what the system is. That makes 6 posters in this thread that have referenced a system but none have been able to explain what that system is and how it benefits Edelman.

 

[SteelersCanada]

I was speaking in terms of opportunity in the offense. We ran a two TE set, which reduced the use of a three WR formation, so it did affect the opportunity Edelman received.

Chad Johnson’s failure does not change the fact that the Patriots trade for him and prioritized implementing him into the offense over Julian Edelman.

It is just stupid that you say this is the first season Brown had the opportunity to be a first read in the Steelers offense when you are diminishing Edelman’s season, which was also his first opportunity to be a top read in this offense. Say that aloud to yourself and tell me if you do not sound like a hypercritic.

I do not ignore anything I am not diminishing Brown at all, the poster FTW said that Brown was a superior talent – he is not a superior talent. Currently he is a more productive player but that is it.

Brown was 6th round draft pick, who was an All-American WR in college. Edelman was a 7th round draft pick who was a QB in college.

I wasn't talking about offensive game plans, but your argument is valid.

I wasn't diminishing what Edelman did at all. In fact, for a receiver of his stature and obvious shortcomings, what he did was remarkable. All of that aside, it's equally remarkable that you're comparing an All Pro receiver to a system* receiver who plays with arguably the greatest of all time.

Is Edelman the superior athlete? Sure. But my question to you is, who cares? Mike Williams was the superior athlete to both AB and Edelman and he is arguably the biggest bust in Seahawks history. The fact that you're comparing measureables to players is beyond silly. Let's compare production, not tangible assets. Tangible assets can only take you so far. Comparing 40 times and shuttle cone drills is ridiculous.

 

[Brady6]

I wasn't talking about offensive game plans, but your argument is valid.



I wasn't diminishing what Edelman did at all. In fact, for a receiver of his stature and obvious shortcomings, what he did was remarkable. All of that aside, it's equally remarkable that you're comparing an All Pro receiver to a system* receiver who plays with arguably the greatest of all time.



Is Edelman the superior athlete? Sure. But my question to you is, who cares? Mike Williams was the superior athlete to both AB and Edelman and he is arguably the biggest bust in Seahawks history. The fact that you're comparing measureables to players is beyond silly. Let's compare production, not tangible assets. Tangible assets can only take you so far. Comparing 40 times and shuttle cone drills is ridiculous.

You're missing my context. The poster said Antonio Brown was a superior talent. I presented their athletic metrics to show him that was not true. Brown is a superior player currently but he is not a superior talent and we do not know where they'll be in 2-3 years.

 

[naF staP]

I think this year he got his 75th punt and that put him at the best of all time if I am not mistaken.

His all time average is 12.8 which I think is the best ave in NFL History, but really that doesn't mean a lot to me. This season he ave 10.7 yards, last season in 9 games he averaged 15.5 just 17 attempts, 2011 ave 10.6 yards, 2010 ave 15.3.

Not sure why people make a big deal about his punt returns.

 

[SteelersCanada]

You're missing my context. The poster said Antonio Brown was a superior talent. I presented their athletic metrics to show him that was not true. Brown is a superior player currently but he is not a superior talent and we do not know where they'll be in 2-3 years.

Shuttle cone drills and 40 times don't play into where a player is going to be in his career. Edelman may have better tangible assets, but route running, catching, quickness off the line and the ability to locate, use your body and make contested catches means more than how fast he was able to run a practiced drill.

 

[DocHoliday]

We have to hope the Broncos keep Welker. They mustn't be able to take Edelman off our hands.