Is Caldwell done?

[Captain Cliche]

This Caldwell doubting really is a head scratcher. I just don't get where it is coming from.

The dude pissed his pants in the biggest game of the year. He is not clutch and he is gone. You have to catch those passes. That is what you get paid millions for.

 

[satz]

The dude pissed his pants in the biggest game of the year. He is not clutch and he is gone. You have to catch those passes. That is what you get paid millions for.

Don`t you actually mean when you are paid less than a million as he made less than that for last year.

 

[Deus Irae]

You cut or retain players based on MARGINAL cost, NOT total cost.

In 2011, AD's salary and workout bonus total $6M. His cap hit is $10.4M.

If a free agent with identical skills only costs $7M, BB will keep AD on the roster.

Why? Because even though his cap number is $10.4M, the marginal cost (in both cap and cash) of keeping him one additional season is $6M, a discount to the free agent market.

Your claim was that paying a player more than he is worth is bad, and that the best teams underpay their talent the most. Now you're just manipulating the numbers in a poor attempt to justify a mistaken comment. What makes this argument of yours more ridiculous is that you're using it with the one team that most runs counter to your argument. This team assigns a value and then holds to it. It 'overpays' for the bottom end of its roster at the comparative expense of the upper eschelon players. So, for you to talk about jettisoning a fairly low-end/middle class salary is even more foolish in the context of this particular team.

If you actually believe what you've written, then Brady has had six different #1 target in some seasons.

When I refer to #1 target, I generally do so on a per season basis.

Its a trivial semantic difference between you and me (and most people who watch football).

Its hardly something that would be described as "asinine".

What was "asinine" was you making a claim that your own definition disproves. My point about Watson was simply proof of this. Furthermore, saying you "generally do so on a per season basis" is nothing but a cop out. If Jerry Rice only played 13 games and someone else caught more balls as a result, Rice would still have been the number #1 receiver for Montana/Young. Watson was Brady's #1 target last season when everyone was on the field and healthy, not Caldwell. Your argument blaming Caldwell for not catching more balls when he wasn't the #1 option until Watson went down is completely unfair and is built upon some of the most contrived arguments I've ever seen on a football forum.

 

[Rob0729]

Seems like the front office agrees with me by signing 3 wide outs this off season. Caldwell was a one season wonder and when he dont make the team i'll make sure to be the first to write a thread about it. I never said Caldwell didnt have a good game against the Chargers. I didnt even bring up anything about dropped balls. I guess you must of confused my post with someone elses, or do you just like putting words in peoples mouths? Playing against your old team does give you that extra motivation to make plays. Its something that is always brought up and talked about, when a player is going up against his former team. I guess to you its some holy ghost. Oh no, thats right it was some almighty force. Reche is going to have beat out both Gaffney and Jackson, and it wont happen.

Obviously, the Pats are betting Caldwell is not a one season wonder since they had a choice of a number of WRs to go after last season including TO, Keyshawn Johnson, Ashlie Lelie, Antwaan Randel El, Antonio Bryant, David Givens, Tim Dwight, etc. and they chose Caldwell.

It seems like the front office agrees with me more that they don't want Caldwell to be the only starting quality WR out there. It also seems that the front office isn't confident that Jackson will be ready for the season. The Pats signed Caldwell last year and proceeded to try to try to add Stallworth, Javon Walker, and Peerless Price. So the Pats are successfully trying to do the same thing they tried last year but failed - giving Brady a lot of weapons.

As for beating out Gaffney and Jackson, what has Jackson done to show he is capable of beating anyone for any spot at this point. He wasn't better than Caldwell last year and he is likely to end up on the PUP this year.

Caldwell had an outstanding year last year. He did it while being covered by team's best CBs and drawing more double teams than anyone else other than Ben Watson. Why wouldn't Caldwell be even better this year taking on the lesser CB or even nicklebacks while Stallworth draws the special teams.

By the way, what gives you special insight to know that last year was an one year wonder type of performance? How do you he won't be better with a full year under his belt with the system and other players drawing away a lot of the coverage? So you are admitting he had a good year last year, but you don't believe the Pats will give him a shot to show that he can be as good or better this year?

I love the Caldwell haters. They agree he had a good year, but he obviously stinks because he dropped two balls in one game. Some people just overract too much.

 

[salty]

You may kiss Jabar's ball sack for two dynamite performances in the playoffs, but thats not enough to prove to me that he is any better than Reche is. Face it, Gaffney didnt do anything to note in the regular season. Reche contributed in ALL 19 games we played and worked his ass off.

This argument is ridiculous. Gaffney didn't even play a game until the end of October. Reche Caldwell had all of training camp and pre-season to get comfortable with the offense. Thus, you CANNOT compare their regular season performances, as Reche had a whole lot more than a leg up on Gaffney in learning the offense.

Look, Caldwell is serviceable, but thats it. Tom Brady is such a great quarterback that he can make serviceable look good, but that doesn't mean that he (Brady) couldn't use some better weapons. Caldwell is a #4 receiver and nothing more in my eyes.

 

[Rob0729]

The dude pissed his pants in the biggest game of the year. He is not clutch and he is gone. You have to catch those passes. That is what you get paid millions for.

You know what? Before that game, the Chargers game was the biggest game of the year and he came through big time on several plays.

We're screwed then. Brady pissed his pants in the biggest game of the year too, In fact, he did it last year in the biggest game of the year too. He is no longer clutch and is gone too.

Bring on the Matt Cassel era!! Maybe we can get Bledsoe back too.

 

[Rob0729]

This argument is ridiculous. Gaffney didn't even play a game until the end of October. Reche Caldwell had all of training camp and pre-season to get comfortable with the offense. Thus, you CANNOT compare their regular season performances, as Reche had a whole lot more than a leg up on Gaffney in learning the offense.

Look, Caldwell is serviceable, but thats it. Tom Brady is such a great quarterback that he can make serviceable look good, but that doesn't mean that he (Brady) couldn't use some better weapons. Caldwell is a #4 receiver and nothing more in my eyes.

The argument isn't ridiculous. Yes, Gaffney's performances in the playoffs may be that he finally picked up the offense or that defenses didn't take into account for Gaffney and he was open a lot more or they were fluke performances. Two games is not enough to judge a player.

As for Caldwell, quite frankly who cares what you think (or me for that matter). It is what Belichick, McDaniels, and Brady think. Both Belichick and Brady speak highly of Reche and odds are he will be back based on their praise.

 

[salty]

This doesn't make sense. He has a good regular season and the first two playoff games and people want to cut him because of two dropped balls. Then call for Brady getting cut too. He has played key roles in our last two playoff losses. We can't afford to have a QB who is going to throw costly and stupid interceptions that help to eliminate us from the playoffs in two concecutive seasons. There is more reason to cut Brady. If he didn't throw two stupid picks, one to Champ Bailey and the other to Marlon Jackson, we might be celebrating our fourth Super Bowl win in a row.

See how stupid this arguement is for cutting a play based on one performance.

Thats ridiculous. Brady had to force the ball because none of his crap receivers could get open.

 

[Deus Irae]

Thats ridiculous. Brady had to force the ball because none of his crap receivers could get open.

Perhaps you should go back and see what Brady and Bailey said about the Denver pick. It had nothing to do with any other receivers being open or not open.

 

[salty]

I'm not going to weigh in on either side this time but I thought this post by a *gasp* Colts fan was funny describing that play:

"It didn't matter who they signed, ANYBODY is better than reche aka i'm wide open...wow so wide open......oh god i'm nervous everybody is looking at me....oh **** here comes the snap.....hes throwing it over here...i'm so wide open....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhh Caldwell"
-CircleCity317
http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190990

Well I hate to agree with a Colts fan, but I think thats a perfect characterization of Reche's mentality. Not a "tough" player at all.

 

[salty]

The argument isn't ridiculous. Yes, Gaffney's performances in the playoffs may be that he finally picked up the offense or that defenses didn't take into account for Gaffney and he was open a lot more or they were fluke performances. Two games is not enough to judge a player.

As for Caldwell, quite frankly who cares what you think (or me for that matter). It is what Belichick, McDaniels, and Brady think. Both Belichick and Brady speak highly of Reche and odds are he will be back based on their praise.

So what makes you think that Belichick, Brady, and McDaniels are satisfied with Caldwell as a starter when they add THREE wide receivers in the off-season?

 

[salty]

Perhaps you should go back and see what Brady and Bailey said about the Denver pick. It had nothing to do with any other receivers being open or not open.

I was talking about the pick at the end of the Colts game this year. The Bailey pick was clearly the result of a very rare mental blunder by Tom Brady. It shocked me that he made such a mistake, whereas next time Reche sh!ts his pants in a key situation, I am going to be very angry that he was even allowed to take the field in those circumstances.

 

[Deus Irae]

So what makes you think that Belichick, Brady, and McDaniels are satisfied with Caldwell as a starter when they add THREE wide receivers in the off-season?

They only added one likely starter, in Stallworth. Welker will likely be filling the Troy Brown role. So, what's likely to happen is that Stallworth and Caldwell with be the #1 and #2 receivers, in some order. Welker will be the slot receiver and Gaffney, Washington and the rest of the 'healthy' bodies will battle for the remaining spots.

Under that scenario, I just don't see why people are belittling either Caldwell or last year's receiving corps.

 

[Deus Irae]

I was talking about the pick at the end of the Colts game this year. The Bailey pick was clearly the result of a very rare mental blunder by Tom Brady. It shocked me that he made such a mistake, whereas next time Reche sh!ts his pants in a key situation, I am going to be very angry that he was even allowed to take the field in those circumstances.

The quote you responded to mentioned the Bailey pick as well. And, the fact that Brady blew the play is pretty much the point made by Robo.

 

[JackBauer]

So what makes you think that Belichick, Brady, and McDaniels are satisfied with Caldwell as a starter when they add THREE wide receivers in the off-season?

Let me attempt to spell this out for you.

It's not just a question of a single starter.

It's a question of the WR core as a whole. They went out and got WRs who fill needs Caldwell and Gaffney, as relatively slow possession receivers, couldn't.

No one want's to see a starting WR unit of Caldwell and Gaffney. But Caldwell as a #2, based on last season's performance, is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Kdo5]

Seems like the front office agrees with me by signing 3 wide outs this off season. Caldwell was a one season wonder and when he dont make the team i'll make sure to be the first to write a thread about it. I never said Caldwell didnt have a good game against the Chargers. I didnt even bring up anything about dropped balls. I guess you must of confused my post with someone elses, or do you just like putting words in peoples mouths? Playing against your old team does give you that extra motivation to make plays. Its something that is always brought up and talked about, when a player is going up against his former team. I guess to you its some holy ghost. Oh no, thats right it was some almighty force. Reche is going to have beat out both Gaffney and Jackson, and it wont happen.

You dont think he will beat out Gaffney and a guy who has a torn ACL and definitley will miss a chunk of games. At any rate he is going to be on PUP to start so I dont know why you brought him up. CJ has potential but theres no way in hell he would beat out Reche for the roster spot, based on how productive Reche was for us last season.

Gaffney is most certainly not better than Caldwell. I dont care about two post season games. Where was he against the Colts? 3 catches? He had a great TD but 3 catches compared to his previous 10 catch game was a let down. Gaffney did nothing in the regular season other than a 5 yard TD against the Texans.

Your the one who is automatically locking up these guys like Stallworth, Welker and Washington as guys who will definitley get a roster spot. Definitley Stallworth & Welker but who the hell knows about Kelley.

I am telling you if any of the 5 recievers(Reche, Stallworth, Gaffney, Welker, Washington) get cut it will be Washington as the most probable followed by Gaffney. As a matter of fact I'd say Caldwell and Welker are two automatic locks for a roster spot. Stallworth too but who knows if he gets in trouble, he could get suspended.

What I was saying about the Chargers game is that you or the soloman guy claimed a lot of Reche's performance has to be credited to the fact that he was motivated and facing his former team. Maybe so but its not like you can just give credit to his motivation. He made a great move on Jammer to help set up the win. He converted big third downs as I recall. I am sure Reche is always motivated to win. Some days he plays great, others not so great. Simple motivation isnt enough to be a crucial in a big win vs the Chargers or shock his old team.

And HOW the hell can you possibly prove Reche is a one year wonder when he hasnt played more than one year? My god you are out of your mind.

 

[Rob0729]

So what makes you think that Belichick, Brady, and McDaniels are satisfied with Caldwell as a starter when they add THREE wide receivers in the off-season?

Well, when we have only Gaffney and Caldwell on the roster who are healthy and with any significant playing time, I think that Caldwell has nothing to do with the free agent acquisitions. I think Washington has a 50/50 chance of making the final roster. Maybe 60/40.

The guy did decently as the #1 WR with no one around him at WR. Why would they cut him when he is moving to his natural position as a #2 or #3 WR? Just because some yahoo fans have condemned him because they overracted about two dropped passes.

Again, by your logic we should cut Brady. He made a most costly stupid mistake than Caldwell's dropped passes. Seymour played so bad he was benched. Maybe he should be cut too.

Why won't Caldwell haters address that? Caldwell wasn't the only one who had a bad game and he didn't make the worst mistakes on the field, but like Bill Buckner he gets all the blame for the loss. If Caldwell can't step up in big games, apparently neither can Brady since Brady has made really bad costly plays in each of the biggest games of the last two seasons. Apparently, Brady has lost his clutchness. But Caldwell haters won't admit the truth. It is time for Matt Cassel to start.

 

[Rob0729]

I was talking about the pick at the end of the Colts game this year. The Bailey pick was clearly the result of a very rare mental blunder by Tom Brady. It shocked me that he made such a mistake, whereas next time Reche sh!ts his pants in a key situation, I am going to be very angry that he was even allowed to take the field in those circumstances.

A rare mental mistake? Like throwing a pass right to Marlon Jackson on the closing drive which effectively ended the Pats season. Face facts! Brady is done. We are signing all of these WRs so when Cassel is handed the starting job in training camp, he has lots of weapons. Brady has cost us the season two years in a row. No way the Pats keep him. He just loses it in big game situations now.

 

[BradyManny]

Wow, this ridicolous thread is still going??

 

[Rob0729]

Wow, this ridicolous thread is still going??

Sorry, I kept it going this time. I'll stop. I've been a bad boy.