Gregory Or No Gregory

[mgteich]

How serious is the expected drop in performance from Option 1 to Option 2? After all, we could save $2.2M in cap money by cutting Gregory?

OPTION ONE
McCourty, Gregory, Harmon, T. Wilson and Ebner

OPTION TWO
McCourty, Harmon, T Wilson, rookie or JAG, and Ebner

By the way, I'm not even talking about a rookie in the top 100. Most of us hope that those picks go for OL (C and/or G), DL (DE and/or DT) and TE.

 

[PATS68]

How serious is the expected drop in performance from Option 1 to Option 2? After all, we could save $2.2M in cap money by cutting Gregory?

OPTION ONE
McCourty, Gregory, Harmon, T. Wilson and Ebner

OPTION TWO
McCourty, Harmon, T Wilson, rookie or JAG, and Ebner

By the way, I'm not even talking about a rookie in the top 100. Most of us hope that those picks go for OL (C and/or G), DL (DE and/or DT) and TE.

Is there an option three? When I think of safety play I go back to Rodney Harrison's three playoff game stretch when they beat the Eagles in the SB. All three INT's were critical in all three games. That's what it takes to win the SB and I do not think either McCourty or Gregory are capable of making those type of game changing plays.

One of the most over looked parts of Patriots success. BB and Brady get most of the credit, but that three game stretch by Harrison will go down as one my favorite Patriots moments.

That Sterling Sharpe show on NFL Network did a number on McCourty and the key word was too deep and late.

All set with Gregory time to move on and I rather see a bigger player with more speed.

 

[mgteich]

I don't think so given the needs at CB, WR, OG, OL, DE, DT, and TE. We even have anticipated costs at LB and RB.

If Belichick can get a top SS for $2M, he'll sign him in a minute.

Is there an option three? When I think of safety play I go back to Rodney Harrison's three playoff game stretch when they beat the Eagles in the SB. All three INT's were critical in all three games. That's what it takes to win the SB and I do not think either McCourty or Gregory are capable of making those type of game changing plays.

That Sterling Sharpe show on NFL Network did a number on McCourty and they key word was too deep and late.

 

[mayoclinic]

I doubt Gregory will be cut, though it's not out of the question. He could just as easily be extended for a couple of years, lowering his 2014 cap hit.

I agree that taking a S before day 3 is unlikey, though its remotely possible that if the right player fell on day 2 (Lamarcus Joyner?) BB could go for it. But day 3 doesn't mean a JAG. After all, we got Alfonzo Dennard in the 7th round in 2012.

3 likely day 3 guys who particularly intrigue me:

1. Jonathan Dowling, Western Kentucky. 6' 2 1/2" 198#. Currently plays SS, but can also play outside CB. A 4 star recruit to Florida under Urban Meyer, kicked off the team for violation of team rules, has been clean for 2 years at Western Kentucky. A big time potential talent with great versatility.

2. Dontae Johnson, North Carolina St. 6'2" 195#. Played safety as a sophomore, then moved to outside CB.

3. Aaron Colvin, Oklahoma. 5' 11 1/2" 194#. Again, played safety as a sophomore, then moved to outside CB. Billed as a top-75 talent (and by some as a top-50 talent) before tearing his ACL last week at the Senior Bowl practices.

I don't know the answer to your question. Gregory wouldn't have to be cut before the draft, so it could depend on who was available day 3. All options are open, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[varjao]

Cut and go with Harmon

 

[PATS68]

I don't think so given the needs at CB, WR, OG, OL, DE, DT, and TE. We even have anticipated costs at LB and RB.

If Belichick can get a top SS for $2M, he'll sign him in a minute.

On the other hand is keeping him on the roster holding up the progression of another player IE Harmon.

 

[Betterthanmost]

Not a fan of Gregory. He should be reserve and not a starter. If he is cut I will be nonchalant.

 

[patsinthesnow]

WalterFootball.com: 2014 NFL Free Agents - Safeties

Clear upgrades over Gregory at S: Byrd, Ward, Whitner, Clemons

Interesting potential upgrade: Stevie Brown

Cheap old vets: Mikell, Clark, Woodson, Bell

The first four safeties will most likely be 5 mil + a year, so cross them out, considering we have to extend our own great safety in McCourty.

Mikell/Clark/Woodson/Bell are near cooked IMO and would not be upgrades over Gregory.

That really only leaves Stevie Brown as a potential affordable upgrade if we were to cut Gregory. He's only 27 and had a breakout year in 2012 with 8 INTs, but missed all of 2013 with a torn ACL.

So yeah, cutting Gregory isn't worth it IMO.

 

[Mack Herron]

Gregory is the answer to BB's question: "Don't give me a defensive player who can't tackle; what am I gonna do with him?" Cap casualty. I like DHarm.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Gregory is awful. We make starters out of other team's cast offs. See Arington for an example. Oh you couldn't cut it on ST on another team? Come start at CB for us!

 

[Sciz]

My expectation is that he'll sign an extension to save about $1M on this year's cap. I wouldn't mind cutting him and going with Harmon, though.

 

[Deus Irae]

Is there an option three? When I think of safety play I go back to Rodney Harrison's three playoff game stretch when they beat the Eagles in the SB. All three INT's were critical in all three games. That's what it takes to win the SB and I do not think either McCourty or Gregory are capable of making those type of game changing plays.

One of the most over looked parts of Patriots success. BB and Brady get most of the credit, but that three game stretch by Harrison will go down as one my favorite Patriots moments.

That Sterling Sharpe show on NFL Network did a number on McCourty and the key word was too deep and late.

All set with Gregory time to move on and I rather see a bigger player with more speed.

Option 3 is to draft one early and suffer through the pains. That's the option that should have been exercised last season. Elam, Cyprien and Swearinger were all available.

 

[supafly]

My expectation is that he'll sign an extension to save about $1M on this year's cap. I wouldn't mind cutting him and going with Harmon, though.

Agreed.

I wouldn't mind seeing a hopeful leap from Harmon (or even another player brought in) to be able to take over a portion of Gregory's reps and be slowly blended in throughout the season.

I think we'd appreciate Gregory more if he were a backup rotational player, as opposed as a starter. For the 3rd/4th safety, he'd be as fine of a choice as any. For a starter though, we'd like to see that position improved upon, and have Gregory stay for less money.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, we should consider SS as one of our potential top picks (along with DE, OL and TE). And yes, it would be good if he were good enough to replace Gregory's reps as the season progressed. Of course, this strategy has been tried three times recently by Belichick with a 2nd rounder, a 2nd rounder and a 3rd round pick. I think that you are saying EITHER that you could have picked better in hindsight OR that we should us a higher pick than we have used in the past.
========================
Yes, we could have had Elam instead of Collins, Dobson, Boyce and a 7th rounder. Belichick would probably have then chosen Boyce where he chose Harmon. So, in hindsight, would we have been better off with Elam instead of Collins and Dobson? Probably.
=======
Cyprian (a FS) could also have been had instead of Collins, Dobson, Boyce and a 7th rounder. IMHO, I would rather have the picks that a free safety.
======
I would rather have Dobson than Swearinger.
I would rather have Collins than Swearinger.
=======

Option 3 is to draft one early and suffer through the pains. That's the option that should have been exercised last season. Elam, Cyprien and Swearinger were all available.

 

[hwc]

You can't just say "cut him and go with Harmon" in a league where you KNOW that you will be playing many, many games with one or more DBs sidelined by injury. You better be six or seven deep with NFL-caliber DBs in this league or you are probably going to be in a lot of trouble. You don't need Gregory OR Harmon. You need Gregory AND Harmon to get through the season.

 

[supafly]

You can't just say "cut him and go with Harmon" in a league where you KNOW that you will be playing many, many games with one or more DBs sidelined by injury. You better be six or seven deep with NFL-caliber DBs in this league or you are probably going to be in a lot of trouble. You don't need Gregory OR Harmon. You need Gregory AND Harmon to get through the season.

I agree with the thought that you need plenty of capable DBs and that you definitely need 3-4 safeties at any given time per game, but I disagree that you definitely need Gregory and Harmon specifically.

Obviously, it's possible that someone else could be brought in via free agency/draft/both, just as well. Gregory is a fine 3rd safety, but is a poor tackler and costs too much money. His contractual situation will obviously go a long way towards determining whether or not he's here next year, and I hope that he is kept for depth purposes, just at a reasonable cost. I can see Belichick cutting him just the same though.

 

[manxman2601]

considering the importance BB places on smarts, when Duron Harmon calls Gregory "the smartest player" he's seen and McCourty calls him the "smartest player on our defense", I would suggest that cutting Gregory is far from a given.

Harmon on Gregory:

“His understanding of the game, he sees stuff before it even happens, just by formation or the way a receiver releases,” Harmon said Thursday. “It’s amazing. Really, when you sit there and you watch him and you see him jump something that you had no idea was even coming.”

Steve Gregory?s Smarts, Duron Harmon?s Versatility Have Made Devin McCourty?s All-Pro Season for Patriots Easier | New England Patriots | NESN.com

 

[supafly]

considering the importance BB places on smarts, when Duron Harmon calls Gregory "the smartest player" he's seen and McCourty calls him the "smartest player on our defense", I would suggest that cutting Gregory is far from a given.

Harmon on Gregory:



Steve Gregory?s Smarts, Duron Harmon?s Versatility Have Made Devin McCourty?s All-Pro Season for Patriots Easier | New England Patriots | NESN.com

Nice find.

For the record, I certainly don't think it's anything close to a given, but I would imagine that it's a possibility if they aren't able to get that cap hit down.

Either way, I still wouldn't mind another crack at a safety in the high rounds.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes, we should consider SS as one of our potential top picks (along with DE, OL and TE). And yes, it would be good if he were good enough to replace Gregory's reps as the season progressed. Of course, this strategy has been tried three times recently by Belichick with a 2nd rounder, a 2nd rounder and a 3rd round pick. I think that you are saying EITHER that you could have picked better in hindsight OR that we should us a higher pick than we have used in the past.
========================
Yes, we could have had Elam instead of Collins, Dobson, Boyce and a 7th rounder. Belichick would probably have then chosen Boyce where he chose Harmon. So, in hindsight, would we have been better off with Elam instead of Collins and Dobson? Probably.
=======
Cyprian (a FS) could also have been had instead of Collins, Dobson, Boyce and a 7th rounder. IMHO, I would rather have the picks that a free safety.
======
I would rather have Dobson than Swearinger.
I would rather have Collins than Swearinger.
=======

I'm not sure where you're getting the Dobson inclusion here. I believe the player you're looking to put in the equation is Ryan.

As for the "hindsight" comment, you know that's a loaded, and inaccurate, term, since I was talking about this stuff long before the draft came around.

 

[zoostation]

Watch the December Miami game and see how Gregory single handedly makes Tannehill look like Joe Montana with his bad cover angles, miss tackles and clueless plays.