The Scott O'Brien - Ryan Allen Brainfart

[shmessy]

Meanwhile - 2 questions - First, was it really a Saftey, since it was the a Colt player who actually hit the ball from the field of play back into the endzone? Secondly, is Metzko currently available to be picked up, or is he still under contract to Cinci?

Don't be so harsh man. Kickers are limited to 2 strike generally, and both Ryan and Aiken each have one as of last night.

1) Yes. It was a fumbled snap, live ball situation that went out the back of the EZ.

2) Unfortunately Mesko punted for the Bengals one game in the playoffs. had he not done that, he would have been available, I believe.

3) I admit, the word "unforgiveable" gives the wrong impression. This should not be against Ryan Allen in the form of demotion/cutting at all. He should never do it again. I'm more upset at Scott O'Brien for not making damn sure that would be reflex muscle memory reaction from Allen.

 

[Froob]

At least we know he won't forget it next time.

 

[shmessy]

My thought at the time was that he was running fast, the ball was moving, the ground and ball was wet and he still had 15 yards to get it out the back of the end zone, maybe he thought there was a chance of whiffing on the kick?

.....and the other options were....?

Look at the replay, it was spinning but not moving anywhere still enough for a guy who makes his living with his feet to dive down, pick it up with his hands, and get back up to present himself as a delicious and juicy tackling target for the Colts.....who may have knocked him out of the playoffs.

 

[MassPats38]

First playoff game for a rookie. It was a rookie mistake and a scenario I do not recall seeing him play out in a game this year. Tough time for it to happen, but far from unforgivable. He has been receiving accolades all year as a rookie, so I am inclined to label it a rookie mistake and move on. It is bad enough that he may not be back this season to have the opportunity to make more of them. I recall our non-rookie kicker booting a kickoff out of bounds this year, but we didn't burn him in effigy for his non-rookie mental lapse. Aspire for perfection, but fall on excellence as Vince Lombardi once said. Allen may not be perfect with this lapse, but he has been excellent.

He was standing at the 29 and ran the ball down at the 3. At that point, it is either a possible TD for the other team or safety. Kick it out of the endzone or fall on it (the bad option, as the Colts were there and may not have let him and 3 shots at the endzone for Luck at that distance probably would have been 7). It ended in a safety, as it should have, but he got himself hurt. Time to move on, with whomever plays next week. I hope it's him.

 

[RayClay]

Not to mention, we would have still had our punter for the next game or two...............

Not if he tried to down it near the 50 and a couple 260 pounders tried to beat him to the loose ball and pig piled him. If I was a scrawny little punter and near the sideline, I'd try to wack it out of bounds.

 

[shmessy]

Shmessy, if you really think there are only "3 things" a punter ever has to do, which of them would have applied if Allen had reached the ball at, say, his own 18?

Patchick, I'm talking about THAT play. It was on the 2.

"Situations", as Belichick repeats to his players day in and day out.

 

[manxman2601]

Gotcha. In no way would I recommend sacking Allen - - he has done a GREAT job this year.

Scott O'Brien? He should have drilled this into Ryan Allen's head and every sinew of his body to automatically kick the damn thing out of the end zone.

OK, I would use a different word then. How's "unacceptable"?

I'm a forgiving soul so I'd go with "teachable moment" personally, but yours is a happy compromise

 

[RayClay]

Shmessy, if you really think there are only "3 things" a punter ever has to do, which of them would have applied if Allen had reached the ball at, say, his own 18?

You can't count on racing toward a wet ball rolling on the ground, with defenders on your tail, and managing to kick it 30 yards out of the back of the endzone.

30 feet, that's ten yards. The risk is compared to giving the opposition 4 downs from the 2.

 

[everlong]

What I found most mind blowing was that Brady became the holder for the extra points and said in his press conference that he hadn't done it since the Orange Bowl his senior year and even more amazing that he doesn't even do it in practice. For a team that prides itself on covering all of it's bases, having a contingency plan for every eventuality and having depth at every position I couldn't believe that was the case. Why Ryan Mallet hasn't been taking some of those in practice is a mystery.

Kudos to Brady who didn't miss a beat.

 

[Keyser Söze]

I was screaming for him to kick it out of the end zone. How a punter doesn't know to do that is beyond me.

 

[RayClay]

I don't think Shmessy was implying a firing squad when he said unforgivable...though he's actually kind of violent, so you never know.

 

[MassPats38]

I don't think Shmessy was implying a firing squad when he said unforgivable...though he's actually kind of violent, so you never know.

I believe Shmessy's commentary needs to be added to the "Hitler on [anything NFL]" video series. It just seems to have the right tone.

 

[patchick]

Suppose that Allen had moved more decisively, scooped up the ball and thrown a forward pass out of bounds. The Colts take over at midfield, and my guess is everybody talks about how brilliant the Patriots coaches are in teaching situational football and avoiding the safety.

What I saw was a rookie punter unsure in the heat of the moment of where he was on the field and where the defenders were, and so misjudging which of the 2 possible scripts he'd been taught should apply.

 

[PrairiePat]

I was screaming for him to kick it out of the end zone. How a punter doesn't know to do that is beyond me.

Same here. Then I stopped yelling at Allen and started yelling at Dierdoof, who insisted over and over that he should have fallen on it at the 2 yard line. Sheesh.

 

[scout]

What I found most mind blowing was that Brady became the holder for the extra points and said in his press conference that he hadn't done it since the Orange Bowl his senior year and even more amazing that he doesn't even do it in practice. For a team that prides itself on covering all of it's bases, having a contingency plan for every eventuality and having depth at every position I couldn't believe that was the case. Why Ryan Mallet hasn't been taking some of those in practice is a mystery.

Kudos to Brady who didn't miss a beat.

Yea, I thought for sure Mallet would come in and hold. Didn't Mallet hold during a regular season game? Then, I thought this gives the Pats an option for the 2 point conversion with Brady holding.
I was getting a little nervous with the refs huddling so long, hoping that they didn't hear Dierdorf ranting about the 2 yard line. I believe the Colts hit it out thinking it might be the Pats ball at the 20, tho, the Colts needed to have possession before hitting it out.

 

[patchick]

30 feet, that's ten yards. The risk is compared to giving the opposition 4 downs from the 2.

How does 18 yards + 10 yards (in the hypothetical I proposed) add up to 30 feet?

I'm not for a minute suggesting that Allen made the right choice last night! He clearly should have kicked that ball out of the endzone. (And Dierdorf was clearly nuts.)

I was just arguing with the premise of this thread, that the punter had zero decisions to make and O'Brien must have totally failed to coach him. My guess is that the Patriots teach both a kick-it-out-of-the-endzone scenario AND a rarer incomplete-pass scenario, and that Allen panicked, misjudged the field position and went with the wrong one.

I also think that the focus of blame should be on Aiken, not Allen.

 

[jah]

What an unnecessarily harsh thread. First of all, the guy is a rookie. Second of all, it's the long snapper's fault. Lastly, if Allen had a split second more time and got an incomplete pass off (which he was clearly trying to do), Indy would have gotten the ball around midfield and we'd all be praising his decision making.

 

[PP2]

How does 18 yards + 10 yards (in the hypothetical I proposed) add up to 30 feet?

I'm not for a minute suggesting that Allen made the right choice last night! He clearly should have kicked that ball out of the endzone. (And Dierdorf was clearly nuts.)

I was just arguing with the premise of this thread, that the punter had zero decisions to make and O'Brien must have totally failed to coach him. My guess is that the Patriots teach both a kick-it-out-of-the-endzone scenario AND a rarer incomplete-pass scenario, and that Allen panicked, misjudged the field position and went with the wrong one.

I also think that the focus of blame should be on Aiken, not Allen.

I'm inclined to agree with this line of thinking, that Allen was caught between the two scenarios he was taught. It did seem as if he was planning to throw it.

And as for Aiken; considering the pouring rain we had last night, I think I'll give him a pass on just this one. Those things do happen.

 

[RayClay]

How does 18 yards + 10 yards (in the hypothetical I proposed) add up to 30 feet?

I'm not for a minute suggesting that Allen made the right choice last night! He clearly should have kicked that ball out of the endzone. (And Dierdorf was clearly nuts.)

I was just arguing with the premise of this thread, that the punter had zero decisions to make and O'Brien must have totally failed to coach him. My guess is that the Patriots teach both a kick-it-out-of-the-endzone scenario AND a rarer incomplete-pass scenario, and that Allen panicked, misjudged the field position and went with the wrong one.

I also think that the focus of blame should be on Aiken, not Allen.

I should never have commented without reviewing the play. He picked it up at the 3 with his momentum carrying him to the end zone. He was insane to attempt a pass in that situation. 100% kick that thing 13 yards through the end zone for the safety.

Not sure what your hypothetical is.

 

[robbomango]

Ddorf tried to labor an awful point by saying you hold them at the goal line and maybe they just get a field goal, lmao. Stick to your guns Danny boy...