Why don't Pats make a play for big time receiver?

[Sicilian]

We've tried that mid-level vet route in New England, and it hasn't worked. Donald Hayes and Doug Gabriel etc.

If Boyce turns out and you land another WR that's just as good, that means you have 6 on the team. 6 is good. Brady deserves 6 interchangeable WRs.

The fact that Vereen and Gronk are good as well is a +, not a minus.

We still don't know what we have in the 3 rookies. None of them are guaranteed to become good players next year. I'd add one more to the mix.

Stallworth and Gaffney worked out pretty well. Hell, for that matter Reche Caldwell was decent, just should never have been the #1 WR. I'd also argue that Welker was a "mid-level" vet when he was brought in, though I'll admit if we're talking just outside guys then he's a bad example.

 

[Brady6]

Homer Jack is back, classic stuff.....

You like these results huh Jack?

(Demaryius Thomas OR Dez Bryant) FOR (DMCourty and Taylor Price).

Denver Broncos first 2 picks of the 2010 draft – Demaryius Thomas (22nd overall) and Tim Tebow (25th overall).
New England Patriots first 2 picks of the 2010 draft – Devin McCourty (27th overall) and Rob Gronkowski (42nd overall).

The Broncos netted a top 10 wide receiver in the NFL and a quarterback who is out of the NFL; the Patriots netted a top 3 safety in the NFL and the top tight end in the NFL. The Patriots highest draft choice was lower than the Broncos worst. So yes I like the results and I am not being a homer at all.

Full draft classes:

Patriots
Devin McCourty – all pro
Rob Gronkowski – all pro
Jermaine Cunningham – starter/rotational backup/released
Brandon Spikes – starter
Taylor Price – Released
Aaron Hernandez – pro bowler/prisoner
Zoltan Mesko – 3 year starter
Ted Larsen – released
Thomas Welch – released
Brandon Deaderick – rotational backup/starter/ released
Kade Weston – released
Zac Robinson – released

Broncos
Demaryius Thomas – pro bowler
Tim Tebow – released
Zane Beadles – pro bowler
J.D. Walton – starter
Eric Decker – starter
Perrish Cox – starter/released
Eric Olsen – released
Syd’quan Thompson – released
Jammie Kirlew – released

 

[Brady6]

I think you're putting Thompkins' ceiling too low. Not trying to sound like a raging homer, but if Thompkins puts it together, he would seem to be a carbon copy of Chad Johnson. But that's IF he can put it all together.

When it comes to athletic ability yes he could, he could actually probably be better, but Johnson was had intangibles that I don’t know if Thompkins possesses.

Thompkins

• Combine Invite: Yes
• Height: 6005
• Weight: 193
• 40 Yrd Dash: 4.46
• 20 Yrd Dash: 2.55
• 10 Yrd Dash: 1.56
• 225 Lb. Bench Reps: 8
• Vertical Jump: 33 1/2
• Broad Jump: 10'01"
• 20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.21
• 3-Cone Drill: 6.88

Johnson

• Combine Invite: yes
• Height: 6010
• Weight: 192
• 40 Yrd Dash: 4.57
• 20 Yrd Dash: 2.65
• 10 Yrd Dash: 1.56
• 225 Lb. Bench Reps: N/A
• Vertical Jump: 33
• Broad Jump: 09'00"
• 20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.14
• 3-Cone Drill: 7.51

Something about Thompkins worries me though he just has a Justin Francis vibe to him for me a rookie UDFA that people get all excited for and have all these lofty expectations for and then he doesn’t even make the team in year two. Other players like – Sterling Moore, Kyle Love and others who do really well they even start for us and then you see them cut and never find work again and you can’t help but wonder is it just the right place right time or are they actually a player that could develop into something.

 

[IcyPatriot]

We had one who was ready to perform in his peak years ... Hernandez.

How do you plan ahead based on what he did?

For the the complaining ... Belichick had us set up very well in the receiving area pre season.

With just 1/2 the injuries we should be at worst 12-2 right now.

 

[goheels22002]

When was the last time this team grabed a great receiver in the draft? since Moss there hasn't been anyone that scares opposite defense.

Stanley Morgan at #25 in 1977 and Irving Fryar at #1 overall in 1984. The last time the Patriots took a standout college WR was Terry Glenn at #7 under Parcells in 1996. Glenn had a great rookie season and fizzled under the pressure of the Parcells approach.

The Patriots didn't draft Randy Moss. The got him for a 4th round draft pick from the Oakland Raiders' Al Davis.

The Patriots just hit 11 consecutive years with 10 or more wins. That means they are going to draft at the bottom of every round. When you pick 25th or later, the can't miss elite receivers are long gone.

You're looking at throwing the dice on great college players who may or may not have it when it comes to the complexity of NFL offenses and the physical, jamming and cover skills of NFL defensive backs.

I'd rather see them draft in the trenches with #1s unless they are lucky enough to land guys like Mayo or Chandler Jones for the defense. Promising skill guys (except QBs) are all over the draft board in the later rounds.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

We had one who was ready to perform in his peak years ... Hernandez.

How do you plan ahead based on what he did?

For the the complaining ... Belichick had us set up very well in the receiving area pre season.

With just 1/2 the injuries we should be at worst 12-2 right now.

So disappointing to see it all change from that dbag killing someone. If we beat the ravens Sunday, we can go all the way still. Just wish talib, Arrington, and dennard could get healthy. They are an elite group of CB's when healthy.

 

[Brady6]

We had one who was ready to perform in his peak years ... Hernandez.

How do you plan ahead based on what he did?

For the the complaining ... Belichick had us set up very well in the receiving area pre season.

With just 1/2 the injuries we should be at worst 12-2 right now.

Icy you’re really putting yourself at risk saying the name that begins with a H and ends with a Z in public.:scared2: I am not sure if you’ve noticed but people who spoke of him they’re dying off at a clip not seen since the days of Whitey.:scared:

As for the rest of you check out this thread because Rutgers has something waiting for Bill in year’s draft that might be the answer to this “problem”. http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...coleman-enter-2014-nfl-draft.html#post3686763

 

[A man named Brady]

Look at how the ravens played us in the playoffs last year. They basically said you guys can't beat us deep, I don't trust any of your receivers ability to beat tough man to man coverage on the outside.This is why I would dread playing Seattle in the SB. That secondary would own our current WR core.

However if we were 100% healthy with Gronk it would be interesting

 

[IcyPatriot]

Look at how the ravens played us in the playoffs last year. They basically said you guys can't beat us deep, I don't trust any of your receivers ability to beat tough man to man coverage on the outside.This is why I would dread playing Seattle in the SB. That secondary would own our current WR core.

However if we were 100% healthy with Gronk it would be interesting

That was why Bill picked Dobson ... he was supposed to be a horizontal threat to stretch it sideways. That was also what Lloyd was supposed to do but he couldn't stretch it horizontal or vertical.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

That was why Bill picked Dobson ... he was supposed to be a horizontal threat to stretch it sideways. That was also what Lloyd was supposed to do but he couldn't stretch it horizontal or vertical.

If Dobson can get to his past 3 game performances, he can do both. I am still sticking with my points, if Dobson can stretch the field and catch those passes, we have chance. And with talib, Arrington and dennard healthy, we can still have a decent D.

 

[IcyPatriot]

If Dobson can get to his past 3 game performances, he can do both. I am still sticking with my points, if Dobson can stretch the field and catch those passes, we have chance. And with talib, Arrington and dennard healthy, we can still have a decent D.

I don't think Dobson has the speed to be a consistent field stretch type ... he's fast and tall enough to get it done with his athleticism perhaps. I assumed when he was picked it was for horizontal, possession and red zone types of plays to open the middle up more. Last year opening the middle was a huge problem for the Patriots and it's how the Ravens beat us.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Idk, regardless, Dobson has to do both for us to be successful!! Lol

 

[RhodyPatriot]

I don't think Dobson has the speed to be a consistent field stretch type ... he's fast and tall enough to get it done with his athleticism perhaps. I assumed when he was picked it was for horizontal, possession and red zone types of plays to open the middle up more. Last year opening the middle was a huge problem for the Patriots and it's how the Ravens beat us.

It's really a shame when you compare what Peyton Manning or Joe Montana have had to work with throughout their careers vs what Brady has been handed.
Don't know why Belichick has refused to find a tall, fast, ball hawking WR over the years. Other than Randy Moss who has there been???
It's truly a testament to the greatness of Brady at this team has been as good as they have given the sucky defense and holes on offense we've seen over the past few years.
The blame lies at the feet of GM Belichick, who will never be voted into the HOF for that job.

 

[The_Riddler]

Denver Broncos first 2 picks of the 2010 draft – Demaryius Thomas (22nd overall) and Tim Tebow (25th overall).
New England Patriots first 2 picks of the 2010 draft – Devin McCourty (27th overall) and Rob Gronkowski (42nd overall).

The Broncos netted a top 10 wide receiver in the NFL and a quarterback who is out of the NFL; the Patriots netted a top 3 safety in the NFL and the top tight end in the NFL. The Patriots highest draft choice was lower than the Broncos worst. So yes I like the results and I am not being a homer at all.

Full draft classes:

Patriots
Devin McCourty – all pro
Rob Gronkowski – all pro
Jermaine Cunningham – starter/rotational backup/released
Brandon Spikes – starter
Taylor Price – Released
Aaron Hernandez – pro bowler/prisoner
Zoltan Mesko – 3 year starter
Ted Larsen – released
Thomas Welch – released
Brandon Deaderick – rotational backup/starter/ released
Kade Weston – released
Zac Robinson – released

Broncos
Demaryius Thomas – pro bowler
Tim Tebow – released
Zane Beadles – pro bowler
J.D. Walton – starter
Eric Decker – starter
Perrish Cox – starter/released
Eric Olsen – released
Syd’quan Thompson – released
Jammie Kirlew – released

Missing the point, we could have had both DThomas and Gronk or Dez and Gronk, can you even imagine what that would have been like for opposing defenses ?

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

The patriots arent getting Calvin Johnson dude just let it go

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Missing the point, we could have had both DThomas and Gronk or Dez and Gronk, can you even imagine what that would have been like for opposing defenses ?

Dez is a theory here. I highly doubt that guy that isn't mature would be able to learn what Brady sees and pick up the offense. Dez would seem like he could be great here, but its theory. I highly doubt he could learn the playbook and even act semi mature.

 

[supafly]

Dez is a theory here. I highly doubt that guy that isn't mature would be able to learn what Brady sees and pick up the offense. Dez would seem like he could be great here, but its theory. I highly doubt he could learn the playbook and even act semi mature.

We can't keep going around in circles with the Dez Bryant debate.

Coming into the draft, he had to have the Oklahoma State offense regularly dumbed down and tailored to him because he couldn't pick up or understand all of the nuances of a system that was nowhere near the complexity of ours in the NFL.

On top of that, there were plenty of rumors of attitude/work ethic issues, so no one can blame Belichick for trading down, accumulating more picks, and getting a versatile CB/S in the process.

Belichick made the better choice in grabbing extra picks and filling a need with a versatile player like McCourty. Everything is speculation as to whether or not he'd have ever really "gotten it" here, just as you said.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Breaks my heart to see guys like Megatron stuck on teams that absolutely suck, you can put dudes like Fitz and Gordon in that category too and i'm sure there are countless others.

You're gonna come back at me and talk about cap hit i say how about getting rid of the dead weight at O-line taking up all the salary that they don't deserve and bring a guy like Megatron onboard.

That statement is useless without a plan. Who would you cut to make room for these cap hits for Megatron?:

2013: $8.773 million
2014: $13.058 million
2015: $20.558 million
2016: $24.088 million
2017: $21.357 million
2018: $17 million
2019: $18.250 million

Go ahead and show us where we're going to get that kind of money.

I'm pretty sure if you ask him 'hey how about playing with #12?' he's gonna forget that Detroit even exists and think about rings. I'd be willing to give up numerous picks and players teams would want to get an elite wideout even if it isn't Calvin.

It's not about whether he wants to play here. It's about whether he's willing to leave a metric ****-ton of money on the table to come to New England, because it would be literally impossible to fit that salary under our cap. It will never happen.

And your entire premise is wrong, anyway. Yeah, these guys like playing for winners. If someone like the Lions is willing to pay them $5-8M more per year than the Pats would, then they'll take that extra cash over whatever the Patriots have to offer any day.

 

[BradyFTW!]

We can't keep going around in circles with the Dez Bryant debate.

Coming into the draft, he had to have the Oklahoma State offense regularly dumbed down and tailored to him because he couldn't pick up or understand all of the nuances of a system that was nowhere near the complexity of ours in the NFL.

On top of that, there were plenty of rumors of attitude/work ethic issues, so no one can blame Belichick for trading down, accumulating more picks, and getting a versatile CB/S in the process.

Belichick made the better choice in grabbing extra picks and filling a need with a versatile player like McCourty. Everything is speculation as to whether or not he'd have ever really "gotten it" here, just as you said.

The part that keeps getting left out in this debate is that McCourty is more valuable than Dez is. I know that it's hard for the fantasy-obsessed types to wrap their heads around, but defense really matters and McCourty is one of the few pieces that's propping up this injury-decimated D. He's part of the solution, and can absolutely be one of the best players on a Super Bowl-winning team. He's that good.

If I was running the Patriots and the Cowboys offered me Dez for McCourty, straight up, I wouldn't even have to think too hard before I turned down that deal.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I don't think Dobson has the speed to be a consistent field stretch type ... he's fast and tall enough to get it done with his athleticism perhaps. I assumed when he was picked it was for horizontal, possession and red zone types of plays to open the middle up more. Last year opening the middle was a huge problem for the Patriots and it's how the Ravens beat us.

He does run a 4.38, although I agree that he seems to play slower than that.