Game Thoughts - As the Saints go marching home with a loss

[andrewgarrr]

Even if the run was a good idea..which it wasn't IMO,I would have gone with Bloundt over Bolden...he seems a bit better bodied to carry the load down deep inside than Bolden is.

A little creativity there doesn't hurt either...except for mentally challenged calls like throwing to a LT who is not a college TE anymore.

I think Brady checked out of the called pass play into the Bolden run...

As you said, that close to the end zone, you'd probably run with Blount not Bolden. Also, JMcD was visibly upset after that play - I think he was upset that Brady checked out of what he called.

 

[supafly]

Throwing into End Zone from inside the 10 hasn't been working. The running game got us home two out of three times. On the third time, blocking on second and third down stank, we still may not of scored but the play calling was fine. I think we went into this game determined to score on the ground.

When you have it first and goal from the 8 yard line and your leading CB is out of the game, you've got to take at least ONE chance at the endzone to try and go up 27-17 at that point, even if it were a relatively safe pass on 3rd and goal.

That playcalling very well could have cost us the game, as they played it too conservatively and settled for a FG that only put them up 23-17.

As we saw, Brees and the Saints scored to go up 24-23, and had it not been for a last second miracle grab with :05 seconds left, that blown offensive opportunity would have cost them the game.

How many times in the Belichick/Brady/McDaniels era have you ever seen this team have it 1st and goal from the 8 in such a crucial situation and refuse to throw the ball at least once. What's even stranger is that last week they had it 1st and goal from the one and chose not to run it!

 

[supafly]

Also, JMcD was visibly upset after that play - I think he was upset that Brady checked out of what he called.

That was my first thought when it occurred.

To be honest though, I wasn't sure if anyone else thought this was a possibility, so I kept my mouth shut

We'll never know if that is what happened or not, but the playcalling at that point in time was certainly extremely strange--so I think it's a possibility for sure.

 

[SVN]

According to marshall faulk tonite, Talib's play was "mugging man". irvin said everyone is going to do it to which he replied, not everyone has talib and not every plays for belichick
Now iam sure if we were playing manning tonite, talib wouldve gotten called for numerous holding calls.

 

[SVN]

That was my first thought when it occurred.

To be honest though, I wasn't sure if anyone else thought this was a possibility, so I kept my mouth shut

We'll never know if that is what happened or not, but the playcalling at that point in time was certainly extremely strange--so I think it's a possibility for sure.

Considering how our oline was getting pushed around, dont know if it wouldve made a diff. Possibly one of the worse oline performances today and last week wasnt great either. That group needs to play better else brady is going to take some bad hits.

 

[supafly]

Yea my bad, I mistook you for someone else.

There were certainly a number of us who felt like he was a bit overrated last year, Marqui--so I may have been one of those whom you are thinking of.

As Patsy correctly describes though, it wasn't out of the realm of possibility to feel that some were making a little too much over it, particularly since he missed a couple/few different games or important parts of them. On top of that he was not nearly as shutdown last season as he's been this year.

The main knock on Talib is that he's never once been able to finish out the end of any one of him 5 previous seasons due to 2 of the same nagging injuries of hamstring/hip.

He's obviously much better this year and I hope they re-sign him, but the injury/durability concerns are definitely still there for the exact same reasons. It will be interesting to see how it plays out, and how much Talib is affected by this current problem this season.

I don't know who said he wasn't top 10, but last year it wouldn't have been crazy to say that. While he did make a huge impact by allowing us to move others around in the secondary, he was far from the shutdown type that he is this year. This year he is easily top 5.

 

[supafly]

Considering how our oline was getting pushed around, dont know if it wouldve made a diff. Possibly one of the worse oline performances today and last week wasnt great either. That group needs to play better else brady is going to take some bad hits.

Yes, the offensive line is obviously an enormous concern moving forward--which is a shame since no one really saw that coming barring major injuries.

I don't know if it would've made a difference or not, but I think most of us wanted to see a pass or two from that goal to go series where they played conservatively and kicked the FG.

Hell, even a slip screen/bubble screen or a "safe" pass would have fit the bill rather than 3 runs up the gut into the defensive line.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I got in a fight with my friends on 4th and 6. I said they should have punted and try to get the ball back because failing to convert would force the Pats to answer with a TD because the Saints were guaranteed a field goal. I was right and luckily the Pats got that TD.

You were wrong. Percentage-wise, the best chance to win the game was to go for it.

If you prefer what actually happened, then you were still wrong because the Patriots won the game.

 

[VrabelJr]

Let's not forget Joe Vellano ... led the team with 8 tackles ... 2 of them solo.

Steve Gregory and Chandler Jones had 7.

Ryan Allen ... 4 punts ... 52.5 yard average.

Add Kyle Arrington to that list. Everyone covered Graham at some point in the game. Even Logan Ryan. I feel like Talib took Graham out of the game mentally before the first half. Graham is young. I don't think he knows how to handle being shutdown like that.

 

[Crononaut]

I absolutely 100% agreed with going for it on 4th down at that point.

First of all, it was a very good playcall. You can't blame the coaches for Dobson dropping yet another catch in a crucial situation that hit him directly between the numbers. 9/10 times the player catches the ball in stride and the drive continues.

As far as the situation goes though, even if you don't convert and IF the Saints score a TD we'd still have time to get the ball back and attempt to score a TD + a 2 pt conversion. It at least still gave us a shot to tie or win the game by getting the ball back at the end. If it happens to work out and Dobson catches the ball then everything's gravy anyway, and we all know he should have caught the ball.

In that situation with 3 timeouts + the 2 min warning, I absolutely agreed with going for it. In the Colts game on 4th and 2 in 2009, I absolutely disagreed. In that case you make Manning drive the length of the field, you don't make it easier for him and put the game on one final play at that point (in my opinion).

I agree with you completely, but then I almost always favor aggression, especially this year when we can put a bit of trust in our D.

In fact, my disagreement was with the inconsistency in aggression Bill showed with his decision to settle for a FG on the previous possession. Within 5 yards, you gotta think conversion rate is at least 50%. While we've seen some anomalous outcomes going for it on fourth this year with bounces and fumbles, 99% of the time your outcome tree is going to be:

A) TD, up by 2 possessions.
B) No good, Saints get the ball on their own 4. Your D has been playing great.
b1) Saints can't get enough yardage, and punt or miss FG.
b2) Saints get in FG range, complete, tie game.
b3) Saints drive the ball 96 yards for a TD. Patriots need a TD to regain the lead.

with the FG (in that range assume 99% completion rate):
A) Saints need 2 FGs to tie.
B) Saints score TD, take lead.

There's arguments for either decision, and maybe it was because Bill did have faith in the D (they almost held too). I just think the upside and expected success rate to going for a 2 possession game outweighed the risks.

 

[Deus Irae]

Lot's of people ***** about offensive playcalling. They're usually full of crap.


Nothing different this week in N.E., where fans of both sides were complaining about two of the very best O.C.s in the NFL, and the fans of both sides were full of crap.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

You were wrong. Percentage-wise, the best chance to win the game was to go for it.

If you prefer what actually happened, then you were still wrong because the Patriots won the game.

GO FOR IT.

Worst case scenario, Saints score a TD but you still have time to tie it with a TD+2 point conversion.


If we Punt it, theres the possibility that New Orleans runs out the clock.

 

[supafly]

Lot's of people ***** about offensive playcalling. They're usually full of crap.


Nothing different this week in N.E., where fans of both sides were complaining about two of the very best O.C.s in the NFL, and the fans of both sides were full of crap.

I don't normally question the play calling too much throughout the year, Deus. After all, those guys are much more informed and well educated about the specifics than I am.

That said, did you personally agree with choosing to pass it to Solder last week instead of running, when having a 1st and goal from the one yard line when we came up totally short?

Or how about choosing to run it 3x times from 1st and goal from the 8 yd line, and failing to take even one high percentage shot on 3rd and goal at least? In that scenario it would seem to be a reasonable thought to try and throw a pass into the EZ and attempt to go up 27-17 at that point in the game instead of 23-17.

Surely someone as smart and knowledgeable as yourself had some problem with those 2 scenarios, no?

 

[supafly]

GO FOR IT.

Worst case scenario, Saints score a TD but you still have time to tie it with a TD+2 point conversion.


If we Punt it, theres the possibility that New Orleans runs out the clock.

My thinking exactly.

In hindsight, I love how everyone was ready to pounce on Belichick for making what appeared to be a much better decision even when the pass was dead on and Dobson dropped it anyway!!!

You'd have thought that they would be pissed at Dobson, not at the coach. It was a good play that obviously worked. It wasn't Belichick's fault in the least--at least not in my opinion anyway.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't normally question the play calling too much throughout the year, Deus. After all, those guys are much more informed and well educated about the specifics than I am.

That said, did you personally agree with choosing to pass it to Solder last week instead of running, when having a 1st and goal from the one yard line when we came up totally short?

Solder is a former TE, and I don't see much difference between having Solder try and having Vrabel doing it, in the sense of the team using a non-TE in that role. Granted, it didn't work, but you don't know until you use the play. I had no problem with the call. I had a problem with Solder getting a poor release.

Or how about choosing to run it 3x times from 1st and goal from the 8 yd line, and failing to take even one high percentage shot on 3rd and goal at least? In that scenario it would seem to be a reasonable thought to try and throw a pass into the EZ and attempt to go up 27-17 at that point in the game instead of 23-17.

Brady audibled either one or two of those plays, so I don't see how that's on the O.C., and the Saints entered the game dead last in defensive YPC against the run, so multiple runs there doesn't bother me in the slightest. Now, if we're talking about the personnel running the ball, I see more to question there.

Surely someone as smart and knowledgeable as yourself had some problem with those 2 scenarios, no?

I had a bigger problem with the Patriots throwing to Dobson on the first play of the game, instead of targeting a veteran, than I had with either scenario you just mentioned, in terms of an O.C. "issue".

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I don't normally question the play calling too much throughout the year, Deus. After all, those guys are much more informed and well educated about the specifics than I am.

That said, did you personally agree with choosing to pass it to Solder last week instead of running, when having a 1st and goal from the one yard line when we came up totally short?

Or how about choosing to run it 3x times from 1st and goal from the 8 yd line, and failing to take even one high percentage shot on 3rd and goal at least? In that scenario it would seem to be a reasonable thought to try and throw a pass into the EZ and attempt to go up 27-17 at that point in the game instead of 23-17.

Surely someone as smart and knowledgeable as yourself had some problem with those 2 scenarios, no?

I know a lot of people have complained about the Solder play but for a team having trouble getting it in for a TD when they're close sometimes you have to try something different, I think it was a smart play but Solder messed it up, I give them props for trying something different since we didn't have our best red zone weapons available.

 

[supafly]

Solder is a former TE, and I don't see much difference between having Solder try and having Vrabel doing it, in the sense of the team using a non-TE in that role. Granted, it didn't work, but you don't know until you use the play. I had no problem with the call. I had a problem with Solder getting a poor release.

Perhaps my example of Solder specifically was a poor one. My thought was more with the refusal to run 3x straight from the one yard line on first and goal than it was to choose to pass to any specific player.

Brady audibled either one or two of those plays, so I don't see how that's on the O.C., and the Saints entered the game dead last in defensive YPC against the run, so multiple runs there doesn't bother me in the slightest. Now, if we're talking about the personnel running the ball, I see more to question there.

When JMcD shook his head as the team came off, I immediately thought that he had to have been pissed about something, so the thought did cross my mind that Brady was the one that checked out of the play--not McDaniels himself calling a run there.

Any questioning or beef that I would have wouldn't necessarily be with Josh himself--partially for the reason(s) that you provided. That said, I think that both situations were muffed up a bit no matter who was choosing the calls.

For the record, I am certainly not one to question McDaniels. I think he is a very good OC, and the chemistry and relationship that he's had with our QB and system are a great fit. To be honest, there's no one I'd rather have than him as the OC. I just found those 2 instances to be a bit odd, considering the circumstances.

 

[supafly]

I know a lot of people have complained about the Solder play but for a team having trouble getting it in for a TD when they're close sometimes you have to try something different, I think it was a smart play but Solder messed it up, I give them props for trying something different since we didn't have our best red zone weapons available.

Yes, my example of choosing to point to Solder specifically was a poor one. It really didn't matter who they were throwing to, but the development and execution of the play likely make it easier to question.

My beef was more of the refusal to pound the rock on 3-4x straight from the one yard line in that situation.

 

[Sparetire]

WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF?!!?!??!!??!?!!??!?!?!!?!?!!?


Did we win?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?! what the hell!!!!!

i went to sleep after Brady's INT knowing the game is over. WTF?!??!?!!?!?

 

[supafly]

i went to sleep after Brady's INT knowing the game is over. WTF?!??!?!!?!?

That was your first mistake

When the INT was thrown, there was still plenty of time left with the timeouts and 2 min warning.

I knew it would at least set up another crucial 3rd down play for the Saints to try and pick up a game ending first down, and Chandler Jones made a really nice play/sack on Brees as he and Sean Payton tried to trick the Pats with a bootleg left on third.

That set up a punt and we received the punt with about 1:13 remaining.

Austin Collie made 2 very key grabs on the last possession, and Thompkins made one hell of a game winning grab, jumping over the defender in the back corner of the EZ to win the game with :05 seconds remaining.

If you really turned it off, you missed something pretty exciting.