Why are people still trashing the defense?

[coolguy]

Jones isn't even the best player on the defense.

ummm, yes he is.

 

[Deus Irae]

ummm, yes he is.

Wilfork's the best defender on the team, followed by Mayo.

 

[Oswlek]

Wilfork's the best defender on the team, followed by Mayo.

Mayo?

 

[coolguy]

Wilfork's the best defender on the team, followed by Mayo.

and wilfork is getting manhandled this season.

 

[Deus Irae]

Mayo?

Yes. Wilfork, then Mayo, and then the rest fall in line behind them.

 

[Oswlek]

Yes. Wilfork, then Mayo, and then the rest fall in line behind them.

Mayo? :confused4:

 

[Rob0729]

Mayo?

I would put Talib, Ninkovich, and Jones over Mayo this year thus far. Jones may be the most talented player on defense going forward. The guy is unblockable one on one and can play any position on the d-line other than the 3-4 NT.

 

[everlong]

I'm interested to read what numbers people believe the Patriots Defense need to constrict the Falcons to in order to demonstrate improvement?

For mine, the D has clearly improved. How much have they improved? We're about to find out. Scheduling or not, it's nice to be having this discussion.

I said my expectations earlier in the thread. If the defense does similar to what the Dolphins did vs. that offense or better I will be happy.

I don't think you can define it by "the same as they did vs the Dolphins". Every game is a very different. If the Pats offense suddenly clicks and they're up at the end of three quarters 35-10 and Atlanta just starts going for broke with nothing to lose and the defense ends up giving up 31 points it's much different than a 17-17 tie going into the 4th quarter and the defense folds and they lose 31-27. In a tight game offenses won't try stuff they will in a rout. So 31 points is quite different.

 

[Deus Irae]

Mayo? :confused4:

Yes, Mayo. Jones is improving and might pass Mayo at some point, but he's not there yet.



As a side note, I think it's great that we can finally look at this starting defense and not have to worry about there being holes all over the place. Outside of Gregory, Arrington when he's line up outside, and Spikes when he's forced to defend the pass, there's really not a weakness, per se.

 

[Rob0729]

Jones isn't even the best player on the defense.

You certainly can make a very strong argument he is:

• Versatility - He can play every position on the line other than 3-4 NT. Has been unblockable one on one whether he is on the end of the line or lining up at DT over the guard.
• Can do almost everything - He can rush the passer, set the edge, stop the run up the middle. He hasn't been asked to drop into coverage much especially since they have been kicking him inside a lot on sub packages, but he has shown he is arguably the most complete player on the team. He even did a great job chipping Doug Martin off the edge on plays taking him out of the passing game (one play that looked to be designed for Martin, Jones completely took Martin out with a chip shot off the line).
• Teams are starting to account for him - He is getting a lot of double teams. He seems to be the guy on the defense, opposing offenses are accounting for.

Jones isn't JJ Watt or Aldon Smith (thank God for that) or other elite of elite defenders (although he could get there), but he is a stud and is in the argument for best defender.

 

[Oswlek]

Yes, Mayo. Jones is improving and might pass Mayo at some point, but he's not there yet.



As a side note, I think it's great that we can finally look at this starting defense and not have to worry about there being holes all over the place. Outside of Gregory, Arrington when he's line up outside, and Spikes when he's forced to defend the pass, there's really not a weakness, per se.

Mayo? :confused2::twitch::wha:

 

[coolguy]

As a side note, I think it's great that we can finally look at this starting defense and not have to worry about there being holes all over the place. Outside of Gregory, Arrington when he's line up outside, and Spikes when he's forced to defend the pass, there's really not a weakness, per se.

Yeah, the front office really got the right players this year on defense.

 

[JackBauer]

Jones isn't JJ Watt or Aldon Smith (thank God for that) or other elite of elite defenders (although he could get there), but he is a stud and is in the argument for best defender.

Aldon Smith is very overrated, IMO.

 

[Deus Irae]

Mayo? :confused2::twitch::wha:

Since you seem so down on Mayo, there's really no sense going further with this. We're apparently not going to agree or do anything but "yes/no" if we continue.

 

[JackBauer]

Mayo? :confused2::twitch::wha:

I don't think it's particularly outlandish.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't think you can define it by "the same as they did vs the Dolphins". Every game is a very different. If the Pats offense suddenly clicks and they're up at the end of three quarters 35-10 and Atlanta just starts going for broke with nothing to lose and the defense ends up giving up 31 points it's much different than a 17-17 tie going into the 4th quarter and the defense folds and they lose 31-27. In a tight game offenses won't try stuff they will in a rout. So 31 points is quite different.

Here is what I am saying when I say like the Dolphins defense. Hold them to 23 points or less (garbage time points don't count). Allow them to score in the red zone twice or less. I would want them to be better than the Dolphins on third down efficiency since the Falcons converted 45.5% of their third downs. Make key stops and turnovers at key times.

 

[Rob0729]

Aldon Smith is very overrated, IMO.

He is, but he was the first name that came to mind.

 

[Oswlek]

I don't think it's particularly outlandish.

Mayo is a great guy, wonderful teammate and a very good player. But he isn't the second best player on the defense this year, thankfully.

 

[everlong]

Here is what I am saying when I say like the Dolphins defense. Hold them to 23 points or less (garbage time points don't count). Allow them to score in the red zone twice or less. I would want them to be better than the Dolphins on third down efficiency since the Falcons converted 45.5% of their third downs. Make key stops and turnovers at key times.

That's reasonable but I would also add no receivers running ten yards behind the defense like last year. Seattle comes to mind since it happened so often that game.

 

[JackBauer]

Mayo is a great guy, wonderful teammate and a very good player. But he isn't the second best player on the defense this year, thankfully.

OK. So you clearly have a different evaluation of Mayo than some others do. It happens.