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The O will get it together, but how 'bout that DEFENSE?!

in todays NFL unless you got Adrian Peterson in the back field your not going to win a game by running the football, the big stat was 189 yards less then 50% comp and 0 TD's and 3 INT's through the air and the JETS were on the field for 34 min IMO that's great defense
 
You can only play who is on your schedule. The defense has been tremendous. Pondering what they will be against different teams doesn't change that.
Somehow fans around here seem to think taking the field against an offense that isn't the 1984 Dolphins is in itself a failure.
As I said, we'll get a truer indication of the defense's improvement against the Falcons, Bengals and Saints. Hell, I'm not even bothering to look past Tampa next week as Freeman can go on streaks during games.
 
Would you care to guess where among the 32 teams 3.9 yards per attempt rated in the first game? Would it surprise you to know that well over half the teams kept their opponents to less?

The run defense will be tested against Tampa Bay.

They got 129 yards, including QB scrambles, because we tied a team record for punts and managed 9 first downs on offense.
We held them to 3.9 per carry RB, that is good run defense.
 
Would you care to guess where among the 32 teams 3.9 yards per attempt rated in the first game? Would it surprise you to know that well over half the teams kept their opponents to less?

The run defense will be tested against Tampa Bay.

Are you disputing that 3.9 ypc is good run d or just being a wise guy?
How the run d played vs the jets is not in any way dependent upon how they play in a future game.
 
As I said, we'll get a truer indication of the defense's improvement against the Falcons, Bengals and Saints. Hell, I'm not even bothering to look past Tampa next week as Freeman can go on streaks during games.

What they do in future games is meaningless in assessing how they played Thursday. The game is over it doesn't change based on the result of future dames.
 
What they do in future games is meaningless in assessing how they played Thursday. The game is over it doesn't change based on the result of future dames.
Excuse me for tempering my enthusiasm after facing the Bills and Jets, two powerhouse offensive teams.

Am I pleased with the defensive showing through two games? Yes. Do I want to see how the defense plays against better offenses before I become giddy? Yes.
 
Are you disputing that 3.9 ypc is good run d or just being a wise guy?
How the run d played vs the jets is not in any way dependent upon how they play in a future game.

Below is where a 3.9 YPC Avg would rank per year (at a minimum) in the last 10:

2003 - 12th
2004 - 11th
2005 - 12th
2006 - 9th
2007 - 12th
2008 - 12th
2009 - 7th
2010 - 10th
2011 - 7th
2012 - 7th (NE Patriots were 7th Ranked Team)

That averages out to a 9.9 ranking, putting a D with a 3.9 YPC, at a minimum, consistently in the top third of the league. If you consider top third good, middle third average, and lowest third bad, the Pats indisputably played 'good' against the Jets.

The Pats much lauded 2012 run D had an opponent average of 3.9 YPC.

I think people disappointed at the run D are comparing the Jets rushing to the Pats rushing, and also getting hit with the halo effect by Powell's rushing TD. The Jets may very well have an elite rushing D, but that doesn't mean the Pats don't have a good or even very good rushing D.
 
Excuse me for tempering my enthusiasm after facing the Bills and Jets, two powerhouse offensive teams.

Am I pleased with the defensive showing through two games? Yes. Do I want to see how the defense plays against better offenses before I become giddy? Yes.

My point is that talking about how they played in this game is based on this game.
 
Second game in folks. I know it's no good for message board threads, but at this point it's just a root-for-the-team-and-enjoy kind of time. Root for wins, move on to next week. That's a nice week of defensive stats. Some encouraging signs thus far. Interested in how both sides of the ball come out of the mini-bye a week from this weekend. Would love to see progress from the young receivers after a lot more practice snaps w/Brady... the not-in-synchness is palpable. And maybe some sort of gitmo JUGS machine thing where BB puts 'em on the field and makes 'em catch passes for 3 days until paramedics have to replace all their blood or something. Whoops, hyperbole.
 
My point is that talking about how they played in this game is based on this game.
You want to hang your appraisal on the games played. That's fine. I'm not willing to hang my hat on that because the teams they played have not demonstrated offensive proficiency in some time.

I've already said I'm pleased with the apparent strides the defense appears to be taking. I'll hold off on the universal praise when they bring those performances against the Bengals, Falcons and Saints. I've been a proponent for an elite D for some time. The moment they get there I'll go tantric.
 
You want to hang your appraisal on the games played. That's fine. I'm not willing to hang my hat on that because the teams they played have not demonstrated offensive proficiency in some time.

I've already said I'm pleased with the apparent strides the defense appears to be taking. I'll hold off on the universal praise when they bring those performances against the Bengals, Falcons and Saints. I've been a proponent for an elite D for some time. The moment they get there I'll go tantric.

Aus, I see your point. The Patriots have played two, seemingly, below average offenses. You believe they haven't been tested in a manner that provides enough proof of their effectiveness (or lack of). While I choose to be optimistic by looking at it from the standpoint of 'the 2 opponents so far were the 2 opponents so far, the performance was the performance, they are what they are as of the finish of week 2', again I see the point of view you are coming from. But my view of the D as of week 2 isn't based solely on optimism. I'm also seeing it from a comparison to last season's D. And last season (and the last several years) the Patriots' passing D, at least as I remember it, had a very bad habit of making sub par QBs look above par from a stats perspective. This year, so far, the Patriots have done something I don't recall them doing in quite a while; two weeks in a row they made 2 seemingly sub par quarterbacks actually look sub par, both on the field and in the stat columns (i'll accept that is wrong if someone recalls them doing this last year -- this is just to the best of my recollection).

Man I'll tell you what, and again maybe I recall incorrectly, to me last year's pass D was scary. I just had no faith in them (towards the end of the year that definitely started to change). It wasn't just opposing receivers getting open or even getting quite open on occasion (which happens), there would be too many times where receivers were virtually uncovered, running freely, and running freely more than just 5 to 7 yards downfield. Simply put, last year's pass D was making the job of the opposing QB too easy too often (fortunately the potency of our O would often render their poor play moot). So while I do see your point on the Patriots pass D not yet facing top offenses, when I look at these first two games, see how many many more times the D had to be on the field than in the past, see how nearly every opposition's possession in the fourth quarter was probably a game deciding possession, to then see mostly competitive coverage, to see passes actually defensed/broken up in critical spots, to see the opposing QB's stats reflect their actual abilities, I'm very pleased and optimistic with the pass D so far.

Lastly, as far as playing the Saints or Denver to see where the pass D is at, I'm not proclaiming our pass d is like a brick wall. But let's keep perspective, these offenses score on just about anyone. What I'll be interested most in (in terms of stats), does the pass D give up 350/400 yards like it was nothing (like last year) or do they put up a higher bar of difficulty for the big numbers to be achieved. With that said, unless our O improves, these top offenses are going to score on us, likely quite a bit. They're too good and they'll get too many possessions not to.
 
Aus, I see your point. The Patriots have played two, seemingly, below average offenses. You believe they haven't been tested in a manner that provides enough proof of their effectiveness (or lack of). While I choose to be optimistic by looking at it from the standpoint of 'the 2 opponents so far were the 2 opponents so far, the performance was the performance, they are what they are as of the finish of week 2', again I see the point of view you are coming from. But my view of the D as of week 2 isn't based solely on optimism. I'm also seeing it from a comparison to last season's D. And last season (and the last several years) the Patriots' passing D, at least as I remember it, had a very bad habit of making sub par QBs look above par from a stats perspective. This year, so far, the Patriots have done something I don't recall them doing in quite a while; two weeks in a row they made 2 seemingly sub par quarterbacks actually look sub par, both on the field and in the stat columns (i'll accept that is wrong if someone recalls them doing this last year -- this is just to the best of my recollection).

Man I'll tell you what, and again maybe I recall incorrectly, to me last year's pass D was scary. I just had no faith in them (towards the end of the year that definitely started to change). It wasn't just opposing receivers getting open or even getting quite open on occasion (which happens), there would be too many times where receivers were virtually uncovered, running freely, and running freely more than just 5 to 7 yards downfield. Simply put, last year's pass D was making the job of the opposing QB too easy too often (fortunately the potency of our O would often render their poor play moot). So while I do see your point on the Patriots pass D not yet facing top offenses, when I look at these first two games, see how many many more times the D had to be on the field than in the past, see how nearly every opposition's possession in the fourth quarter was probably a game deciding possession, to then see mostly competitive coverage, to see passes actually defensed/broken up in critical spots, to see the opposing QB's stats reflect their actual abilities, I'm very pleased and optimistic with the pass D so far.

Lastly, as far as playing the Saints or Denver to see where the pass D is at, I'm not proclaiming our pass d is like a brick wall. But let's keep perspective, these offenses score on just about anyone. What I'll be interested most in (in terms of stats), does the pass D give up 350/400 yards like it was nothing (like last year) or do they put up a higher bar of difficulty for the big numbers to be achieved. With that said, unless our O improves, these top offenses are going to score on us, likely quite a bit. They're too good and they'll get too many possessions not to.
I'm not going to disagree with anything you've put forward TheBostonStraggler but as you said, I'm waiting to see what sort of improvement they'll show against Matt Ryan and Drew Brees before I get really excited. That's all.
 
These whiners are always moving the goalposts. They are truly never happy.

It's not just this board, either. It seems every sports team forum does it.
 
I'm not going to disagree with anything you've put forward TheBostonStraggler but as you said, I'm waiting to see what sort of improvement they'll show against Matt Ryan and Drew Brees before I get really excited. That's all.

Let's not forget Dennard's court appearance tomorrow...
 
You want to hang your appraisal on the games played. That's fine. I'm not willing to hang my hat on that because the teams they played have not demonstrated offensive proficiency in some time.

I've already said I'm pleased with the apparent strides the defense appears to be taking. I'll hold off on the universal praise when they bring those performances against the Bengals, Falcons and Saints. I've been a proponent for an elite D for some time. The moment they get there I'll go tantric.

How can you "hang your appraisal" of 2 games on anything but two games.
You seem to want to read my comments and pretend they say something else.
The defense played fantastic in these two games. That is my comment.
If you wish to diminish that by guessing how they will play in other games its a different topic and wouldn't really be pertinent to my comments which once again are about the actual play of the defense on the football field.
 
Let's not forget Dennard's court appearance tomorrow...

I'd almost like Dennard have to serve his 10-12 days now, and get it over with. It would certainly kill all the "Oh My God. The Sky is falling as the
Chciken Littles run around in circles.

But he won't. The lawyers will earn a few more bucks delaying it for a minimal amount of time, until the season is over.
 
I'd almost like Dennard have to serve his 10-12 days now, and get it over with. It would certainly kill all the "Oh My God. The Sky is falling as the
Chciken Littles run around in circles.

But he won't. The lawyers will earn a few more bucks delaying it for a minimal amount of time, until the season is over.

Let's hope you're right, but I wouldn't bet too much money on that.

To this point his lawyers have been able to move it 2x, at a whopping 10 day pace each time.

Eventually, they may run out of 10 day postponements.

If it was as clear as we're hoping for, then the prosecution wouldn't have had much use in charging him with a violation of probation ahead of hearing the outcome of his new charges. They decided to violate him ahead of the outcome of his case for a reason, and that's because they're going after him and believe that he's broken the law already. If the judge allows for all of these postponements until after the DUI case is heard, it would defeat the purpose entirely. We'll have to see whose "side" she takes.

As I said, I would think that you may be right---but there are also factors that are hinting towards a possibility that it gets heard sooner than that.
 
in todays NFL unless you got Adrian Peterson in the back field your not going to win a game by running the football, the big stat was 189 yards less then 50% comp and 0 TD's and 3 INT's through the air and the JETS were on the field for 34 min IMO that's great defense

To this point, we can feel that there's definitely been some improvement in the defense.

We were able to withstand 2 games in a period of about 100 hrs (media keeps calling it "5 days" but I'm not sure why? Sun-Thurs. is a 4 day period) vs teams that had the capability to run the ball effectively, and QBs who could tuck it down and scramble for big gainers.

That alone shows a decent enough defensive performance in my eyes. They were able to pressure the QB effectively, and most importantly--continue to cause turnovers, which has consistently shown the highest relationship to winning games.

The secondary hasn't been tested "enough" to this point, so it's only natural for some to be skeptical until they see that done vs better competition. In the meantime, it's not a bad way to start off your first 2 games and get a feel for live game speed again.
 
To this point, we can feel that there's definitely been some improvement in the defense.

We were able to withstand 2 games in a period of about 100 hrs (media keeps calling it "5 days" but I'm not sure why? Sun-Thurs. is a 4 day period) vs teams that had the capability to run the ball effectively, and QBs who could tuck it down and scramble for big gainers.

That alone shows a decent enough defensive performance in my eyes. They were able to pressure the QB effectively, and most importantly--continue to cause turnovers, which has consistently shown the highest relationship to winning games.

The secondary hasn't been tested "enough" to this point, so it's only natural for some to be skeptical until they see that done vs better competition. In the meantime, it's not a bad way to start off your first 2 games and get a feel for live game speed again.

Pretty well said.
On the tested comment, has any team been "tested" after 2 weeks of the season? We can only look at what has transpired so far then add a shot of optimism, right?

Something I would note for those planting their flag in 'the QBs we faced suck, so the Patriots D is probably not what the scores have shown'.

EJ: 27 of 39 for 296 yards
EJ against the Patriots: 18 of 27 for 150 yards

Geno: 24 of 38 for 256 yards
Geno against the Patriots: 15 of 35 for 214 yards

Ultimately, in the 2 games not against the Patriots, they had decent if not good passing games (stats wise). When playing the Patriots. their passing stats were lousy (don't remember being able to say that last year).
Bottom line reality: Either the Patriots are now 2 for 2 in the lucky department where these QBs simply lost the ability to pass to uncovered receivers (when they could do it against the other two teams), or the Patriots pass D played well. It's either one or the other....
 
The D was in fact stellar. They too the field 5 times in the last 17 1/2 minutes with a 3 point lead supported by an offense that got 2 first downs in tha 1 1/2 minutes and gave up nothing.
What did you want from the D.
Crack me up, 12 carries for 52 yards is now considered walking all over them.ink

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