Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?'

[everlong]

They are also reviewing divorce. PFRI's least favorite pope ever.

Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?' ? CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

 

[RI Patriots fan]

They are also reviewing divorce. PFRI's least favorite pope ever.

Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?' ? CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

"Speaking to reporters on a flight back from Brazil, he reaffirmed the Roman Catholic Church's position that homosexual acts were sinful, but homosexual orientation was not."


BBC News - Pope Francis: 'Who am I to judge gay people?'


You're wrong....I love this Pope. I think he's great.

I also understand that nothing doctrinally will be "reviewed". Same sex acts are wrong and will always be wrong. Divorce and remarriage was wrong and will always be wrong.

Each is part of the Universal and ordinary teaching of the church and cannot be changed.


The world needs to change to what the church believes...not vice versa.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Yeahhhhh actually, the Church is wrong. But point taken, Francis still agrees with many of the wrong things the Church promotes. He is the bloody pope, after all.

However, he's reversed Benedict's pronouncement on those with a "deep seated" homosexual orientation, that's plain enough.

PFnV

 

[IllegalContact]

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Yeahhhhh actually, the Church is wrong. But point taken, Francis still agrees with many of the wrong things the Church promotes. He is the bloody pope, after all.

However, he's reversed Benedict's pronouncement on those with a "deep seated" homosexual orientation, that's plain enough.

PFnV

I don't think that's "plain enough" at all.

I think that when Francis was talking about those pushing their gay agenda, he was referring to those with deep seated homosexual orientation.

The bottom line is that any homosexual who wants to become a priest will have to fully embrace the church's teaching and that will be nearly impossible for those with a "deep seated" homosexual orientation.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

As I recall, a reporter asked him if there was a "gay lobby" within the Church, and he said there shouldn't be any lobbies in the church -- then explained that if a gay man is called to serve in the church, "Who am I to judge him?"

I don't recall seeing the words "push a gay agenda" anywhere in Francis' interview. Do you have a quote of him saying that anybody was "pushing a gay agenda"?

It was his predecessor, Benedict, who went off on people with "deep seated" homosexual leanings...

Reflections on the Instruction on the Admittance of Homosexuals into Seminaries :: Catholic News Agency

" The instruction just published [under Benedict] sustains that the Church “cannot admit in seminaries nor give access to the sacred Orders to those who practice homosexuality, who present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or supporting the so-called gay culture.”

Where does such an "instruction" fit into the machinery of the Church?

Francis was clear that his view was that having gay sex was a sin, not that being gay was a sin. This seems to be in contrast to the above "instruction" from the reign of Benedict.

PFnV

 

[RI Patriots fan]

As I recall, a reporter asked him if there was a "gay lobby" within the Church, and he said there shouldn't be any lobbies in the church -- then explained that if a gay man is called to serve in the church, "Who am I to judge him?"

I don't recall seeing the words "push a gay agenda" anywhere in Francis' interview. Do you have a quote of him saying that anybody was "pushing a gay agenda"?

It was his predecessor, Benedict, who went off on people with "deep seated" homosexual leanings...

Reflections on the Instruction on the Admittance of Homosexuals into Seminaries :: Catholic News Agency

" The instruction just published [under Benedict] sustains that the Church “cannot admit in seminaries nor give access to the sacred Orders to those who practice homosexuality, who present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or supporting the so-called gay culture.”

Where does such an "instruction" fit into the machinery of the Church?

Francis was clear that his view was that having gay sex was a sin, not that being gay was a sin. This seems to be in contrast to the above "instruction" from the reign of Benedict.

PFnV

I think Francis was clear that he wouldn't judge someone who was gay simply because they were gay. He also didn't say that he would change the policy implemented by Benedict.

That being said, I hope he does change it to allow for gay men who commit their lives to Jesus and who are willing to fully accept and embrace the entire truth of Catholic teaching on homosexuality.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Win a few, lose a few. He also said JPII hath spoken on the subject of women priests, so "lose a few" means "lose 50%."

I like the guy, but hey, the catholic church is a big boat to turn.

 

[Mrs.PatsFanInVa]

I also understand that nothing doctrinally will be "reviewed". Same sex acts are wrong and will always be wrong. Divorce and remarriage was wrong and will always be wrong.

Each is part of the Universal and ordinary teaching of the church and cannot be changed.

_Annulments: He said the church's judicial system of annulling marriages must be "looked at again" because church tribunals simply aren't up to the task. That could be welcome news to many Catholics who often have to wait years for an annulment, the process by which the church determines that a marriage effectively never took place.

_Divorce and remarriage: He suggested an opening in church teaching which forbids a divorced and remarried Catholic from taking communion unless they get an annulment, saying: "This is a time for mercy."

Pope Francis Reforms Threaten Some Catholics, Changes Not Welcomed By All

Sounds like changes to me.

Just the idea that you can do wrong things at one point in time, feel sorrow for having done so, repented but not changed the end result (still divorced and remarried) - and be accepted as a valid member of the faith.

 

[everlong]

That being said, I hope he does change it to allow for gay men who commit their lives to Jesus and who are willing to fully accept and embrace the entire truth of Catholic teaching on homosexuality.

So if you're gay and have inner loathing that's good enough for you.

 

[everlong]

The world needs to change to what the church believes...not vice versa.

They're either going to change or their numbers will continue to dwindle. People have splintered off for centuries but it's getting worse especially in the states. It could be a fringe religion in this country in another 25-50 years.

?Strong? Catholic Identity at a Four-Decade Low in U.S. | Pew Research Religion & Public Life Project

 

[Claremonster]

They are also reviewing divorce. PFRI's least favorite pope ever.

Pope Francis on gays: `Who am I to judge?' ? CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

What does he think about orgies? THAT is the question...

 

[everlong]

What does he think about orgies? THAT is the question...

He said it's not up to him to judge orgy-goers and PFRI would like him to say it's OK as long as the orgy-goers dedicate their life to Jesus and fully accept the church's view on orgy-goers.

I think today is a special day for orgy_goers.....actually every day is a happy day for them.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

What does he think about orgies? THAT is the question...

It wouldn't matter what the sin happens to be....we all have our own proclivities.

If someone decides to change their life for Christ and become a new creation then why not support them rather than abate them in that change.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The church can only change so fast. It can't admit that if you love someone of the wrong gender that's just fine by God, or why would he make you that way....

But Francis seems to be a good guy... he'll at least say "We'll allow you to take part in the celibate part, because, duh, it's all theoretical that way anyway." (Supposedly.) He seems willing to embrace the "love" part of his religion, but all in all, the church is still wrong.

Of course, it's a matter of whether the church will persist in being wrong, or change one day. Who knows. I mean, other than RI

There are gay Catholics who just "ignore that part." In fact, I've known one who sounds a lot like RI, albeit with a more artistic bent, a well-known (by poetry standards) poet, who's been writing these pathetic religious pieces for years now (He used to write lots of stuff meant to bother the straight folks, but now it's sort of passe...) He's every bit the dogmatist RI is.

But for younger gays? Come on. This church is essentially something to recover from, not something to accept.

What y'all need is reform Catholicism.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

The church can only change so fast. It can't admit that if you love someone of the wrong gender that's just fine by God, or why would he make you that way....

But Francis seems to be a good guy... he'll at least say "We'll allow you to take part in the celibate part, because, duh, it's all theoretical that way anyway." (Supposedly.) He seems willing to embrace the "love" part of his religion, but all in all, the church is still wrong.

Of course, it's a matter of whether the church will persist in being wrong, or change one day. Who knows. I mean, other than RI

There are gay Catholics who just "ignore that part." In fact, I've known one who sounds a lot like RI, albeit with a more artistic bent, a well-known (by poetry standards) poet, who's been writing these pathetic religious pieces for years now (He used to write lots of stuff meant to bother the straight folks, but now it's sort of passe...) He's every bit the dogmatist RI is.

But for younger gays? Come on. This church is essentially something to recover from, not something to accept.

What y'all need is reform Catholicism.

What y'all don't get is....."Catholicism".

The Church is not a club or a political institution. It makes a claim by which it must be supported entirely or ignored completely....that it was founded by God himself and given the fullness of truth by God himself.

There is no room for "reform" (as you so mistakenly put it) when it comes to doctrine because the church cannot be wrong when it speaks infallibly.
There is only room for obedience or dismissal. Either the church was founded by God himself or it wasn't founded by God himself.

If you're a gay Catholic and you're dismissing the church's teaching on homosexuality but "following" the rest of the faith, then you are missing the point entirely. It's like the "Traditionalists" in my church who want to dismiss Vatican 2. They just don't get it.

 

[everlong]

Even if you believe the church was founded by god himself it's been run by men for 2,000 years and men can be corrupt. There's lots of corruption and things wrong with the church thus lots of room for reform.

 

[DarrylS]

What y'all don't get is....."Catholicism".

The Church is not a club or a political institution. It makes a claim by which it must be supported entirely or ignored completely....that it was founded by God himself and given the fullness of truth by God himself.

There is no room for "reform" (as you so mistakenly put it) when it comes to doctrine because the church cannot be wrong when it speaks infallibly.
There is only room for obedience or dismissal. Either the church was founded by God himself or it wasn't founded by God himself.

If you're a gay Catholic and you're dismissing the church's teaching on homosexuality but "following" the rest of the faith, then you are missing the point entirely. It's like the "Traditionalists" in my church who want to dismiss Vatican 2. They just don't get it.

But you do, interesting..

Nobody is wrong, if everybody is right...

 

[Greatest I am]

If Pope Francis does not exonerate the gay lifestyle for consenting adults then he is not a moral man.

Regards
DL

 

[IllegalContact]

It's used car sales 101

if people ain't buying what you're selling, change your tune

live by the golden rule and pass by the gates as an at large bid