Per 98.5: Pats won't renew Brandon Lloyd's deal

[Rob0729]

Your Sammy Davis, Jr. routine is nothing if not entertaining.

That is a very compelling opinion piece. Granted, I was never arguing that Hartline is worth 6MM per, only that it would hardly shock me if some team decided to pay him that amount.

Further, none of this really serves to support your claim that Hartline could be signed for a fraction of what they're paying Lloyd.

Exactly. What players are worth is irrelevant on the free agent market. It is what the market rate is for the position. Based on last year's market, Hartline is very likely to get $6-7 million a year in a contract.

 

[JackBauer]

Exactly. What players are worth is irrelevant on the free agent market. It is what the market rate is for the position. Based on last year's market, Hartline is very likely to get $6-7 million a year in a contract.

Yup. Especially when you're a team like the Dolphins and can spend like it's going out of style.

 

[mgteich]

Are we concluding that $6M is too much and that paying Lloyd $5M of new money is fine? Or that $6M for two years for a solid receiver that fits better than Lloyd is too much and that $4M a year for the next two years to Lloyd is OK?

We have decisions to make regarding our top 2 receivers. Brady's extension has given us the opportunity to pay more for BOTH our top two receivers. Perhaps we can pay a couple of more to Welker and a couple of more to our #2.

 

[patsinthesnow]

2012 Brandon Lloyd:

74 receptions 911 yards 4 TDs

2010 Deion Branch (same age as Lloyd)

61 receptions 818 yards 6 TDs (12 games with pats, 4 games with Seahawks)

Lloyd was pretty much = to Branch before he ran out of gas. He won't be hard to replace.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

so we have no real #1 wr and no #2 with lloyd leaving...they better have some big time move ready that we don't see

 

[Rob0729]

Are we concluding that $6M is too much and that paying Lloyd $5M of new money is fine? Or that $6M for two years for a solid receiver that fits better than Lloyd is too much and that $4M a year for the next two years to Lloyd is OK?

We have decisions to make regarding our top 2 receivers. Brady's extension has given us the opportunity to pay more for BOTH our top two receivers. Perhaps we can pay a couple of more to Welker and a couple of more to our #2.

I am personally not concluding anything. I am just saying $6 million for Hartline seems to be the going rate if not a bargain for him based on the market.

I think if they can upgrade Lloyd at $6 million a year, I think it is worth it. The question is whether Hartline is truly an upgrade.

 

[Deus Irae]

Are we concluding that $6M is too much and that paying Lloyd $5M of new money is fine? Or that $6M for two years for a solid receiver that fits better than Lloyd is too much and that $4M a year for the next two years to Lloyd is OK?

We have decisions to make regarding our top 2 receivers. Brady's extension has given us the opportunity to pay more for BOTH our top two receivers. Perhaps we can pay a couple of more to Welker and a couple of more to our #2.

Until you give a list of reasonable alternatives to Lloyd, in the appropriate price range and available, these sorts of posts are useless.

 

[ivanvamp]

Until you give a list of reasonable alternatives to Lloyd, in the appropriate price range and available, these sorts of posts are useless.

Right now, we really have no idea what any FA wide receiver (or any other position, really) is going to end up signing for. All we know is that right now, Welker is not part of the Patriots (well, technically he still may be, I don't know when he officially becomes a free agent), and it looks like Lloyd is out. That's their top two WRs they need to replace. Like most everyone here, I believe that they will re-sign Welker now that they have the space to do so, but that still leaves a WR who had 900+ yards in receptions to replace. To do that cheaply won't be easy, unless they hit a home run in the draft.

 

[Deus Irae]

Right now, we really have no idea what any FA wide receiver (or any other position, really) is going to end up signing for. All we know is that right now, Welker is not part of the Patriots (well, technically he still may be, I don't know when he officially becomes a free agent), and it looks like Lloyd is out. That's their top two WRs they need to replace. Like most everyone here, I believe that they will re-sign Welker now that they have the space to do so, but that still leaves a WR who had 900+ yards in receptions to replace. To do that cheaply won't be easy, unless they hit a home run in the draft.

I hear you. The point I'm trying to make to mgteich, on multiple threads now, is that just saying "replace Lloyd with a better player who costs the same amount" isn't a solution until we know who that player is supposed to be. It sure as hell wasn't Chad Johnson, which is the sort of example that mgteich seems to be ignoring.

 

[Jimke]

Percy Harvin's cap hit is less than 3m.

When he finally shows up. it will be only 1 million.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Until you give a list of reasonable alternatives to Lloyd, in the appropriate price range and available, these sorts of posts are useless.

When you factor in price and must be UFA, that removes mostly everyone (Bowe, Amendola, Alexander, Jennings, Cruz, Wallace, James Jones). Two names remain IMO.

Brian Hartline

Brandon Gibson

Not much out there...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I hear you. The point I'm trying to make to mgteich, on multiple threads now, is that just saying "replace Lloyd with a better player who costs the same amount" isn't a solution until we know who that player is supposed to be. It sure as hell wasn't Chad Johnson, which is the sort of example that mgteich seems to be ignoring.

and that's why I'm reluctant to kick the guy outa bed here because there is no known solution for his replacement at $6M or under except for the dreaded draft pick.

I would think that his quirky personality could be put on ignore by the Pats a lot easier than a megastar like Moss who would have a chance to lead younguns astray or de-focus them. Your crazy uncle Lloyd could just be a colorful character you ignore.

 

[JackBauer]

When you factor in price and must be UFA, that removes mostly everyone (Bowe, Amendola, Alexander, Jennings, Cruz, Wallace, James Jones). Two names remain IMO.

Brian Hartline

Brandon Gibson

Not much out there...

Nelson.......?

 

[patsinthesnow]

Nelson.......?

I was going to include him but didn't after thinking it over. You be the judge, is this enough evidence/production to say "here's 3-5 million a year, go start for us and replace Lloyd until a rookie can"

2010: 31 receptions 353 yards 3 TDs
2011: 61 receptions 658 yards 5 TDs
2012: Injured

 

[JackBauer]

I was going to include him but didn't after thinking it over. You be the judge, is this enough evidence/production to say "here's 3-5 million a year, go start for us and replace Lloyd until a rookie can"

2010: 31 receptions 353 yards 3 TDs
2011: 61 receptions 658 yards 5 TDs
2012: Injured

Sorry, didn't follow the chain. I don't mean to cite him as a Lloyd replacement, just a possible FA addition that wouldn't break the bank.

 

[SONS_OF_BELICHICK]

this doesn't make sense..and it's not like....we are saving tons of money....and WR is slim pickings......and ..its not like every receiver can learn our offense....

 

[Jimke]

Nelson.......?

Nelson will have to go thru the waiver process and won't make it to the Pats.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Re: Per 98.5: Pats wont renew Lloyds deal

Given that Hartline put up better numbers on a far worse team with a far inferior QB, I wouldn't worry too much.

You are assuming he can learn the offense and get on the same page as brady

 

[Ring 6]

But as a possession receiver he still has the size mismatch on CB's, and as far as speed goes I don't think there's much difference than a Lloyd or Boldin in that department. I would rather see him stay at TE but wonder where all the reps are going to come from for Ballard if he is going to play. In the end I think that Hernadez will be used much as he has been in a variety of roles and outside as WR will be one of those uses. It has been in the past and if they end up with a hole there, which i doubt they will, then he will see more use there than if they fill it adequately.

Its not the role, its the matchup. Hernandez doesnt line up outside with 2 TEs and a WR on the field to be covered by a corner. He would be mediocre in that role. Hernandez lines up outside when it causes a S or LB to be out there.
Hernandez and Ballard are completely different players.

 

[Ring 6]

and that's why I'm reluctant to kick the guy outa bed here because there is no known solution for his replacement at $6M or under except for the dreaded draft pick.

I would think that his quirky personality could be put on ignore by the Pats a lot easier than a megastar like Moss who would have a chance to lead younguns astray or de-focus them. Your crazy uncle Lloyd could just be a colorful character you ignore.

If Lloyd is going its not because of on field production or money, its because of other issues. That is clear.