A little early, but: should the Patriots try to re-sign Wes Welker?

[RobertWeathers]

I would be shocked, actually, if Woodhead is gone next year.

With Vereen, Demps, Ridley and Bolden already slated to be in the 2013 backfield? If he wants more than what the Pats value him for then he will be gone.

 

[PatsFan2]

I think some of us are secrectly putting Wes Welker in Calvin Johnson's territory!! I like Wes too but I dont think the Patriots is going to give a WR on the wrong side of 30 a four year contract. Yes Wes have Great short area quickness but that's all folks. A WR with different skill sets adds a dimension that Wes doesn't have.

 

[ATippett56]

And none are No Where as good as Vollmer...Vollmer might not be as expandable as some of us think.

Since 2003, the New England Patriots organization have a track record of selecting and developing offensive lineman in the the first three rounds of the NFL Draft.

 

[Ring 6]

AJ: Vollmer is a swing Tackle who can proctect a QB's blindside in a pinch. Who otherthan Vollmer could we insert at Left Tackle if Nate Solder goes down??? Vollmer has value and I think BB will value him.

Well considering we have 3 OTs (sometimes we keep a 4th but usually not) and we are discussing not bringing one back then the backup OT would be someone who isnt on the roster.
You can't overpay just because you have to find a backup.
I think Vollmer has value too, but that isn't enough, he has to have more value that the options with the money, and I don't think he does.

 

[ATippett56]

With Vereen, Demps, Ridley and Bolden already slated to be in the 2013 backfield? If he wants more than what the Pats value him for then he will be gone.

I agree 100%.

The New England Patriots offense survived the loss of running back BenJarvus Green-Ellis.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think some of us are secrectly putting Wes Welker in Calvin Johnson's territory!! I like Wes too but I dont think the Patriots is going to give a WR on the wrong side of 30 a four year contract. Yes Wes have Great short area quickness but that's all folks. A WR with different skil set adds a dimension that Wes doesn't have.

It was reported that the Pats offered WW 2y/$16m guaranteed then took it completely off the table. There is no way that they are giving him 4 years if they had issues with a 3rd year.

 

[PatsFan2]

Since 2003, the New England Patriots organization have a track record of selecting and developing offensive lineman in the the first three rounds of the NFL Draft.

But when healthy Vollmer is a Pro Bowler...most of those guys we developed are just or above average...Vollmer when healthy is GREAT!

 

[ATippett56]

And none are No Where as good as Vollmer...Vollmer might not be as expandable as some of us think.

The New England Patriots offense survived the loss of three opening day starters on the offensive line:

Light
Koppen
Waters

 

[ATippett56]

But when healthy Vollmer is a Pro Bowler...most of those guys we developed are just or above average...Vollmer when healthy is GREAT!

Sebastian Vollmer has been listed as questionable every week during the 2012 NFL Season with back issues.

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree 100%.

The New England Patriots offense survived the loss of running back BenJarvus Green-Ellis.

While I agree that the Patriots won't overpay for Woodhead, let's not use BJGE as the logic. BJGE wasn't the team's best back in 2010 (Woodhead was better), and Ridley made him redundant going into the offseason after 2011. Furthermore, Woodhead's role is different. He's the passing down/shotgun HB, and he's far better in that role than anyone else on the roster.

Bolden can't block
Vereen can't block, at all
Ridley isn't much of a blocker, and he can't catch

 

[PatsFan2]

On Vollmer we just have to agree to dissagree...I'll say this I love our mountain like formation when Gronk lines up on either side of Solder or Vollmer. That gives the N.E. Patriots a distinct advantage in the run game or playaction.

 

[mgteich]

What does it mean to "overpay" for Woodhead? Woodhead is probably worth more the patriots that to anyone else.

While I agree that the Patriots won't overpay for Woodhead, let's not use BJGE as the logic. BJGE wasn't the team's best back in 2010 (Woodhead was better), and Ridley made him redundant going into the offseason after 2011. Furthermore, Woodhead's role is different. He's the passing down/shotgun HB, and he's far better in that role than anyone else on the roster.

Bolden can't block
Vereen can't block, at all
Ridley isn't much of a blocker, and he can't catch

 

[aluminum seats]

With Vereen, Demps, Ridley and Bolden already slated to be in the 2013 backfield? If he wants more than what the Pats value him for then he will be gone.

Your second sentence is true of every player on the Pats' roster, so doesn't really mean much.

As for the other backs, Woodhead has demonstrated a skill set that doesn't appear to be there with these other guys.

Welker & Woodhead....seems like fan bases usually overrate the scrappy white guys, we seem to be underrating them. Weird.

 

[Deus Irae]

What does it mean to "overpay" for Woodhead? Woodhead is probably worth more the patriots that to anyone else.

The Patriots have numbers for values at each position. I can't tell you a precise number that's overpaying, because I don't have their books. However, Woodead is essentially the new Faulk, albeit with fewer snaps, so we've at least got a starting point.

 

[ATippett56]

While I agree that the Patriots won't overpay for Woodhead.

The proverbial fly in the ointment.

Darren Sproles - New Orleans Saints - 2013 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

7/28/2011: Signed a four-year, $14 million contract. The deal includes $6 million in guarantees. An annual $100,000 workout bonus is available in years two through four. 2013: $2.9 million, 2014: $3.4 million, 2015: Free Agent

 

[RobertWeathers]

Your second sentence is true of every player on the Pats' roster, so doesn't really mean much.

Of course it does. If another team puts a greater value on Woodhead than the Pats have, by way of not caving into external pressures and adjusting their value system because of another team assigns a greater value, he will be gone. See BJGE and other players as examples. If CIN did not put a higher value on him, he may have stayed as the Pats gave him some parameters for a deal and if he didn't think it was what the market offered, he was allowed to shop around for a better offer. I expect the same situation with Woody this offseason. Compared to the Pats, someone will "overpay" for him and with the current depth on the roster, the Pats will weigh their options.

As for the other backs, Woodhead has demonstrated a skill set that doesn't appear to be there with these other guys.

Deus is 100% right every other back on the roster can't pass block or pick up the blitz as well as Woody. However it is a teachable skill. Can they learn it? Hopefully the coaching staff is projecting that the current set of RBs can. Faulk was awful at it in 2000 and later became their best so it is possible to eventually become a good pass-blocking/blitz pickup RB.

Welker & Woodhead....seems like fan bases usually overrate the scrappy white guys, we seem to be underrating them. Weird.

I don't think anyone is underrating WW or Woody. They are both highly valueable players in this offense. However, there are two reasons why teams let players go. It's either an unwillingness to pay or the can't afford them. Woodys situation is the former where WW's could be the former, latter or both.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Patriots have numbers for values at each position. I can't tell you a precise number that's overpaying, because I don't have their books. However, Woodead is essentially the new Faulk, albeit with fewer snaps, so we've at least got a starting point.

I agree. However Faulk was a more versatile, productive player so his "value" is more than Woody. However, to your point we don't know how that relates to $$ the Pats are willing to spend as each year is different cap/salary-wise...

 

[aluminum seats]

Of course it does. If another team puts a greater value on Woodhead than the Pats have, by way of not caving into external pressures and adjusting their value system because of another team assigns a greater value, he will be gone. See BJGE and other players as examples. If CIN did not put a higher value on him, he may have stayed as the Pats gave him some parameters for a deal and if he didn't think it was what the market offered, he was allowed to shop around for a better offer. I expect the same situation with Woody this offseason. Someone will overpay for him and with the current depth on the roster, the Pats will weigh their options.



I don't think anyone is underrating WW or Woody. They are both highly valueable players in this offense. However, there are two reasons why teams let players go. It's either an unwillingness to pay or the can't afford them. Woodys situation is the former where WW's could be the former, latter or both.

On the first point, maybe I'm missing how Woodhead is different than any other player on the roster? If another team wants to pay more than the Pats, then usually that player will be gone.

On the second point, I think some people here are definitely underrating Welker. And Woodhead, to a lesser extent. No question. The two issues of payment are really the same thing, actually.

 

[Huckleberry1]

How is that different than what I said?


I didn't say you did.


You can't expect to pick a player and indentify him as the consequence of someone elses contract. There are numerous additions not made or subtractions made that were influenced by each of those deals.



We tagged Wilfork. So it DID happen. We couldn't tag both, we wouldn't pay both, one had to go. If there were no Wilfork on the roster, Seymour would very likely have been handled differently.


You do realize that 'blowing tens of millions' has to be part of cap management considerations, since every team in the NFL carries dead money, signs free agents who underperform and make draft choices that turn out badly, right?
Your answer is you can afford more, you just have to make no mistakes?
That is too Pollyannaish to not chuckle at.

The concern is clear and obvious. The risk with Welker is higher than normal, because of the combination of his age, the beating he takes, and the risk of losing a step. IMO, the benefits of Welker far exceed those risks though, but you can't just ingone them.


I have said nothing of the sort. AGAIN, I think Welker is high risk, but higher reward, and he should be paid.

The Patriots had other options on the DL if they wanted to keep Seymour, such as not paying Warren, so the speculation that it was a decision to sign Wilfork that led to Seymour leaving is just that, speculation.

While making mistakes is always a part of personel decisions there are riskier decisions, such as Ocho and Haynesworth that really don't need to be made, and if the only thing blocking them from getting Welker done is that they will have a little less money to take those risks then i have no problem with that. To me maximizing Brady's remaining years is the priority, not cap frugality. that doesn't mean they should blow money left and right like the Yankees or dodgers, it just means they should be more aggressive with their highest quality players to make sure they don't lose them. Teams should take different approaches depending upon the situation they find themselves in and my position in this all along has been that they are poised for championships and should solidify their position and improve it, not deliberately get worse.


As i said before, I think we agree on his value.

 

[ATippett56]

I don't think anyone is underrating WW or Woody. They are both highly valueable players in this offense. However, there are two reasons why teams let players go. It's either an unwillingness to pay or the can't afford them. Woodys situation is the former where WW's could be the former, latter or both.

Looking at the big picture, the wide receiver position is the greater need at this point in time based upon the following New England Patriots players currently under contract for the 2013 NFL Season.

Running Backs under contract:

Ridley
Vereen
Bolden
Demps
Larsen (fullback)

Wide Receivers under contract:

Lloyd
Slater (wide receiver in designation only)