The 2013 Prospect Thread

[manxman2601]

Re Kyle Long

Watched him in two games (Stanford and USC). I'm afraid that I wasn't at all impressed.

The Good:

He looks like very imposing as an interior lineman
He's plenty athletic enough.
Gets good jump off snap and gets to second level well.
Holds up pretty well in pass blocking in the pocket.
When he gets a good block, he does well with it. adjusts his hands in accordance with the defenders movements so that he doesn't end up holding or very subtly holds.

The Bad:

He might get to the second level well, but when he gets there he hasn't a clue what to do if his man is not standing right in front of him.
And even when his man is there, Long invariably misses the block. Time and time again, particularly in the Stanford game, it was the defender Long was trying to block that would make the tackle.
When he cut blocks, he just flops to the floor. Doesn't aim the cut block at all. Very weird.
He spends most of the game wandering around not looking as though he knows what he's doing. It looks to me as though the coaches have said to him: "go to this point and block what's there", the trouble is, if anything is not as he expects he flounders badly. I don't know whether this is down to rawness or whether he lacks the ability to process his thoughts quickly.
For someone of his size, I'd expect him to finish off his blocks much better than he does.

I do not see Long being a starter in the NFL anytime soon. My main concern is that him "looking lost" is down to a poor ability to compute in his mind what's going on and that's something that isn't fixable. It could however be down to a lack of experience and only interviews will determine that. His size and athleticism are real plusses and they give hope that he could be a real plus prospect once the awareness/intelligence issues are resolved so it's not all negativity.

I'd be disappointed if we took him in the 2nd round and I personally wouldn't take him until day three. Unless he interviews very well, I'd be very worried that he'd be a bust. However, there is certainly good physicality and athleticism there, just not a great deal of talent or intelligence/experience.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Re Kyle Long

Watched him in two games (Stanford and USC). I'm afraid that I wasn't at all impressed.

The Good:

He looks like very imposing as an interior lineman
He's plenty athletic enough.
Gets good jump off snap and gets to second level well.
Holds up pretty well in pass blocking in the pocket.
When he gets a good block, he does well with it. adjusts his hands in accordance with the defenders movements so that he doesn't end up holding or very subtly holds.

The Bad:

He might get to the second level well, but when he gets there he hasn't a clue what to do if his man is not standing right in front of him.
And even when his man is there, Long invariably misses the block. Time and time again, particularly in the Stanford game, it was the defender Long was trying to block that would make the tackle.
When he cut blocks, he just flops to the floor. Doesn't aim the cut block at all. Very weird.
He spends most of the game wandering around not looking as though he knows what he's doing. It looks to me as though the coaches have said to him: "go to this point and block what's there", the trouble is, if anything is not as he expects he flounders badly. I don't know whether this is down to rawness or whether he lacks the ability to process his thoughts quickly.
For someone of his size, I'd expect him to finish off his blocks much better than he does.

I do not see Long being a starter in the NFL anytime soon. My main concern is that him "looking lost" is down to a poor ability to compute in his mind what's going on and that's something that isn't fixable. It could however be down to a lack of experience and only interviews will determine that. His size and athleticism are real plusses and they give hope that he could be a real plus prospect once the awareness/intelligence issues are resolved so it's not all negativity.

I'd be disappointed if we took him in the 2nd round and I personally wouldn't take him until day three. Unless he interviews very well, I'd be very worried that he'd be a bust. However, there is certainly good physicality and athleticism there, just not a great deal of talent or intelligence/experience.

I don't think he's a 2nd day prospect either. He is currently playing out of position and I don't think anyone ever said he isn't raw. It makes sense that he isn't that polished.

 

[manxman2601]

I don't think he's a 2nd day prospect either. He is currently playing out of position and I don't think anyone ever said he isn't raw. It makes sense that he isn't that polished.

That's fine but CBS have him as a day 2 prospect and he's being spoken of as a high ceiling prospect. I don't want to knock other people's binkys because that's not cool but I saw someone that I think will struggle to succeed at the NFL level. But that's just me so take that for what it's worth. Would like to know what others like in him and whether they watched him in those games (particularly the Stanford one because he really did make a lot of errors there).

Anyway, just my view and not worth taking too seriously

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

That's fine but CBS have him as a day 2 prospect and he's being spoken of as a high ceiling prospect. I don't want to knock other people's binkys because that's not cool but I saw someone that I think will struggle to succeed at the NFL level. But that's just me so take that for what it's worth. Would like to know what others like in him and whether they watched him in those games (particularly the Stanford one because he really did make a lot of errors there).

Anyway, just my view and not worth taking too seriously

Obvious athleticism and size, NFL bloodlines, scheme and team , and formerly late round value.

I'm watching ORE @ USC right now. I think I deleted Stanford accidentally.

 

[manxman2601]

Obvious athleticism and size, NFL bloodlines, scheme and team , and formerly late round value.

I'm watching ORE @ USC right now. I think I deleted Stanford accidentally.

These are all worthy attributes for initially researching prospects but at some stage talent/performance has to be part of an eval which I know you know. Remember how many people said "Barron is just an in the box safety" last year. We know they never watched any film.

On Stanford and USC. I watched Stanford game first and watched 1st half of USC game to make sure that Stanford game wasn't a one off. I saw nothing in the USC game to change what I saw of him in Stanford game. There is some OK stuff there, but nothing that makes me think he's special in any way. I would also add that I'm grading him as a Guard as there's nothing there to really help me judge him as an OT.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

These are all worthy attributes for initially researching prospects but at some stage talent/performance has to be part of an eval which I know you know. Remember how many people said "Barron is just an in the box safety" last year. We know they never watched any film.

On Stanford and USC. I watched Stanford game first and watched 1st half of USC game to make sure that Stanford game wasn't a one off. I saw nothing in the USC game to change what I saw of him in Stanford game. There is some OK stuff there, but nothing that makes me think he's special in any way. I would also add that I'm grading him as a Guard as there's nothing there to really help me judge him as an OT.

He seems like a better pass than run blocker. I know what your mean about the second level. He gets to the second level fine, but once he gets there he becomes anxious if there's no one to block immediately. He'll find the closest guy and kind of lunge at their feet. He also plays too high and straight up (at least for a guard.) These are things that could be fixed with more experience.

I have seen him take snaps at tackle, and he looked better, but it was a limited sample size. I wonder if that will hurt his stock. I doubt anyone is looking at him as a guard.

 

[mackenzie45220]

Wrote about McCoil
Dexter McCoil- 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report

 

[mayoclinic]

Wrote about McCoil
Dexter McCoil- 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report

I haven't seen this kid play, but I'm a little suspicious of 6'4" 220# safeties who are supposedly fluid and can cover. I keep wanting to find the next Rodney, but that kind of player is pretty darn rare. The fact that he has instincts, experience, long arms, and acts as the QB of the defense make him all the more interesting, but I'm still somewhat skeptical - it sounds too good to be true. And I'm a "half full" kind of guy. Maybe more than half full (or full of it, depending on your perspective).

 

[patsfaninpa]

I haven't seen this kid play, but I'm a little suspicious of 6'4" 220# safeties who are supposedly fluid and can cover. I keep wanting to find the next Rodney, but that kind of player is pretty darn rare. The fact that he has instincts, experience, long arms, and acts as the QB of the defense make him all the more interesting, but I'm still somewhat skeptical - it sounds too good to be true. And I'm a "half full" kind of guy. Maybe more than half full (or full of it, depending on your perspective).

The type of player Rodney became doesn't exist coming out of college. You have to have a big frame and build yourself up..cough cough....With superior NFL training techniques..cough couch...and more time to work out. Like JJ Watt. I remember an interview with Rodney where he said he was running a 4.4 forty when he signed with us. There are many guys on each team whom I wonder how they got to their current physique.

A safety who might project is Kenny Vaccarro. I think Reid and Elam are better players right now. But, may not have the range you want in a safety.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The type of player Rodney became doesn't exist coming out of college. You have to have a big frame and build yourself up..cough cough....With superior NFL training techniques..cough couch...and more time to work out. Like JJ Watt. I remember an interview with Rodney where he said he was running a 4.4 forty when he signed with us. There are many guys on each team whom I wonder how they got to their current physique.

A safety who might project is Kenny Vaccarro. I think Reid and Elam are better players right now. But, may not have the range you want in a safety.

Could you be thinking of this quote?

"When the big TE's are coming, when the big Wr's are coming, when the big rB is coming, the 4.3 guys turn into 4.8 guys and us 4.6 guys turn into 4.3 guys". - Rodney Harrison.

 

[mayoclinic]

Updated top 50 from Rob Rang:

Big Board: No shortage of elite defensive lineman at top of draft - NFL, NFLDRAFT - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Of interest:

11. Sheldon Richardson, DT, Missouri
17. Johnathan Hankins*, DT, Ohio St.
20. Jesse Williams, DT, Alabama
21. Alec Ogletree*, OLB, Georgia
22. Dion Jordan, DE, Oregon
23. Jonathan Cooper, OG, North Carolina
27. Ezekial Ansah, DE, BYU
31. Anthony Barr*, OLB, UCLA

 

[mayoclinic]

Matthew Fairburn of Mocking the Draft profiles Dion Jordan:

2013 NFL Draft: Breaking down Dion Jordan's strengths and weaknesses - SBNation.com

 

[mayoclinic]

Missouri Southern St. DT Brandon Williams, the MIAA defensive player of the year, has accepted an invitation to the Senior Bowl:

Brandon Williams accepts invitation to play in 2013 Senior Bowl - KOAM TV 7 Joplin and Pittsburg

Williams is 6'3" 325#. He claims to run a sub 5.0 40. As the NT he finished second on the team with 68 tackles include 16.5 TFL and 8.5 sacks, and finished second in the MIAA in forced fumbles, so he has some quickness and playmaking ability as well as the ability to be a space eater. It will be very interesting to see how he does against better competition.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Forget Star and Hankins - if he declares - Nix III is the best DT in the class. Every time I watch him my jaw is on the floor. He's the closest thing to the Wilfork I've ever seen.

I'm officially releasing him as a binky.

--

I like Lewis-Moore, but I'm not sure he's much of an upgrade over Deadrick.

--

Did you guys watch Bama vs Miss St? Barrett Jones got run over by Spencer Nealy - a guy he has 30 pounds on. I'm not sure he;s worth a first round pick. Definitely not at guard. Cooper is roughly 50 times better as a first round guard.

--

Anyone know if Bradley Roby is thinking about declaring?

 

[mayoclinic]

Forget Star and Hankins - if he declares - Nix III is the best DT in the class. Every time I watch him my jaw is on the floor. He's the closest thing to the Wilfork I've ever seen.

I'm officially releasing him as a binky.

--

I like Lewis-Moore, but I'm not sure he's much of an upgrade over Deadrick.

--

Did you guys watch Bama vs Miss St? Barrett Jones got run over by Spencer Nealy - a guy he has 30 pounds on. I'm not sure he;s worth a first round pick. Definitely not at guard. Cooper is roughly 50 times better as a first round guard.

--

Anyone know if Bradley Roby is thinking about declaring?

1. I'm with you on Louis Nix, all the way. But he'll never last if he does declare. And he's not even the best prospect on ND's DL - as good as Nix is, and he's darn good, Stephon Tuitt is an absolute beast.

2. I agree with you about Barrett Jones. His versatility and intangibles are great. But his floor is about equal to his ceiling, and I'm not convinced he's a 1st round talent. I think Dallas Thomas and Brian Winter will make better guards, not to mention Jonathan Cooper.

3. Don't know about Roby. Nothing strong that I've heard yet.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

1. I'm with you on Louis Nix, all the way. But he'll never last if he does declare. And he's not even the best prospect on ND's DL - as good as Nix is, and he's darn good, Stephon Tuitt is an absolute beast.

2. I agree with you about Barrett Jones. His versatility and intangibles are great. But his floor is about equal to his ceiling, and I'm not convinced he's a 1st round talent. I think Dallas Thomas and Brian Winter will make better guards, not to mention Jonathan Cooper.

3. Don't know about Roby. Nothing strong that I've heard yet.

1. He makes double teams look like blocking sleds, but that's why I'm releasing him as a binky. He'll never last. As good as Tuitt is I don't think he's better than Nix, just different. They're different positions with different roles, but I think they are equally beastly.

2. Yeah but what about center? I still think he might be the best center. I haven't done a ton of work on that position though. I bet Cooper would make a hell of a center.

Jones will be opposite Nix in the championship game. I fully expect Nix to pancake Jones, but if Jones plays well he could solidify himself as a first rounder.

 

[Sciz]

Anyone know if Bradley Roby is thinking about declaring?

I read a while ago that he wanted to stay another year and get his degree. If that's changed, then I'm a big fan, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

[mayoclinic]

1. He makes double teams look like blocking sleds, but that's why I'm releasing him as a binky. He'll never last. As good as Tuitt is I don't think he's better than Nix, just different. They're different positions with different roles, but I think they are equally beastly.

2. Yeah but what about center? I still think he might be the best center. I haven't done a ton of work on that position though. I bet Cooper would make a hell of a center.

Jones will be opposite Nix in the championship game. I fully expect Nix to pancake Jones, but if Jones plays well he could solidify himself as a first rounder.

I've said all along I think Jones' best position is center. It takes advantage of his processing ability and smarts. He's a tough and savvy guy, and centers usually don't need to be ultra athletic compared even with guards. He does have good size and strength, and can hold his own with bigger linemen. I think he'd be a very good center. I'm not sure he's worth a 1st round pick, but possibly. But I'd take Cooper over Jones any day.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

I read a while ago that he wanted to stay another year and get his degree. If that's changed, then I'm a big fan, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Ok. I like him too. I think he'll go pretty high next year. Probably only behind Purifoy. I wouldn't mind getting a talent like that at all.

I've said all along I think Jones' best position is center. It takes advantage of his processing ability and smarts. He's a tough and savvy guy, and centers usually don't need to be ultra athletic compared even with guards. He does have good size and strength, and can hold his own with bigger linemen. I think he'd be a very good center. I'm not sure he's worth a 1st round pick, but possibly. But I'd take Cooper over Jones any day.

I agree.

 

[manxman2601]

Forget Star and Hankins - if he declares - Nix III is the best DT in the class. Every time I watch him my jaw is on the floor. He's the closest thing to the Wilfork I've ever seen.

I'm officially releasing him as a binky.

--

I like Lewis-Moore, but I'm not sure he's much of an upgrade over Deadrick.

--

Did you guys watch Bama vs Miss St? Barrett Jones got run over by Spencer Nealy - a guy he has 30 pounds on. I'm not sure he;s worth a first round pick. Definitely not at guard. Cooper is roughly 50 times better as a first round guard.

--

Anyone know if Bradley Roby is thinking about declaring?

1. Louis Nix III: Yeah I'm very high on him too. I've come up with a new nickname for him: "Bowling Ball". That's what he puts me in mind of every time I watch. He's a small rotund ball shaped guy that just knocks everything down in front of him. Would be the best DT in the class if he declares. I'm really high on Kapron Lewis Moore but only for a 3-4. Think he's too tall and slender for our DT role.

2. Barrett Jones. I too saw Spencer Nealy give him a working over. I think Barrett Jones won't go until late round two or round three. I'm not overly impressed. He gets credit for being so versatile which is fair enough but the other reason for that is that he's not good enough to lock down one position for the Tide. And BTW, that Spencer Nealy game was Texas A&M, not Miss St.

3. Doubt Roby declares. Are Ohio State bowl eligible next year. Bearing in mind they went unbeaten this, if they are eligible next year, that's good incentive too return.