Snap counts vs. Titans (merged)

[patchick]

I wonder if Welker has checked out on the team mentally being exhausted and irritated with the lack of a contact extension.

IMO that's a pretty huge leap to take, just from Welker playing "only" 2/3 of the snaps in a game that featured a lot of time-killing running formations near the end.

 

[Ring 6]

Very interesting. One thing that stands out to me is this. Looking at the snaps for Mayo, Spikes and Hightower, there were only 2.2 linebackers out there per play. Was someone else playing linebacker, or were the Pats really in sub defense so much? If so, it's all the more impressive that they were so stout against the run.

Yes we played that much nickel.
DBs played 317 aggregate snaps on 65 plays.
That is 4.88 per snap.
Can't really get a percentage for base because we don't know how much was nickel.

 

[Metaphors]

Just because you don't see two guys draped all over a receiver doesn't mean he isn't getting doubled.

I understand that and I can only speak to a limited number of pull-away replays, but I only saw zone or single coverage (nobody else around) on Welker. If anyone has shots from the all-22 (haven't signed up for that yet), then maybe they can get a better picture of what Welker was facing.

I saw no indication that Welker wasn't trying hard. However, I think it is reasonable to wonder if at 31 years old and collecting 650+ hits over essentially just the last five years, the skill set that makes Welker unique is just starting to decline. We really haven't seen a player just like Welker before so we don't have a basis for knowing when his expiration date is.

Given their cap room, it was reasonable to pay $9M for this year even if Welker's production is dropping. This may explain why Welker didn't get the contract he was looking for in the off-season. He is still a key part of the offense and a deep post-season run likely depends on him making key plays at key times. I'm thinking he has enough left and his production will be significant (though not Welkeresque) when all is said and done.

 

[BradyManny]

Thought this was interesting, though unworthy of its own thread:

Charting base vs. sub defense - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

vs. Titans
Sub: 42 of 65
Base: 21 of 65
Short-yardage: 2 of 65

The Patriots played two different sub packages on Sunday -- a nickel with cornerback Ras-I Dowling replacing either linebacker Dont'a Hightower or linebacker Brandon Spikes, and a dime with Dowling and safety Tavon Wilson replacing Spikes and Hightower.

I love the defensive rotation we have so far. I feel very confident about this group of guys and the depth we have.

 

[jmt57]

Granted it was due to playing with the lead, but i thought it was interesting to note that the Pats used a 3 TE formation more often than a 3 WR formation, and a 1 WR formation more often than a 3 WR formation. Perhaps some of the angst about who the 3rd WR would be over the last couple of months was a bit of an over reaction.


Positional groupings: TEs dominate - espnBoston

2 WR/2 TE/1 RB -- 46 of 67
1 WR/3 TE/1 RB -- 8 of 67
3 WR/2 TE -- 7 of 67
1 WR/2 TE/1 FB/1 RB -- 4 of 67
3 TE/1 FB/1 RB -- 2 of 67​

 

[BradyManny]

Granted it was due to playing with the lead, but i thought it was interesting to note that the Pats used a 3 TE formation more often than a 3 WR formation. Perhaps some of the angst about who the 3rd WR would be over the last couple of months was a bit of an over reaction

Well, they still need a backup to Lloyd on the outside, IMO - but I am thrilled if they are going to use the TEs this much. Especially if they are going to have such an effective running game.

 

[patfanken]

Granted it was due to playing with the lead, but i thought it was interesting to note that the Pats used a 3 TE formation more often than a 3 WR formation, and a 1 WR formation more often than a 3 WR formation. Perhaps some of the angst about who the 3rd WR would be over the last couple of months was a bit of an over reaction.


Positional groupings: TEs dominate - espnBoston

2 WR/2 TE/1 RB -- 46 of 67
1 WR/3 TE/1 RB -- 8 of 67
3 WR/2 TE -- 7 of 67
1 WR/2 TE/1 FB/1 RB -- 4 of 67
3 TE/1 FB/1 RB -- 2 of 67​

I think it is telling that according to this there wasn't a single snap where the Pats were in a standard 3 WR set and only 8 snaps (11%) where they used a 3rd WR at all. (other than to rest one of the 2 starters.

Now doesn't that clear up why the Pats were so comfortable to let Branch and Gaffney go to the shadow roster and not waste a slot on them. In this offense, it is becoming quickly clear that the 3rd TE is of more use than the 3rd WR, and the 4th TE will ultimately have more value than the 4th WR

 

[BradyManny]

Now doesn't that clear up why the Pats were so comfortable to let Branch and Gaffney go to the shadow roster and not waste a slot on them. In this offense, it is becoming quickly clear that the 3rd TE is of more use than the 3rd WR, and the 4th TE will ultimately have more value than the 4th WR

It does and it doesn't. Brandon Lloyd played 57 snaps. If Brandon Lloyd got injured, is Matt Slater playing 57 snaps? Because he is your backup at that position right now.

The same reason we're carrying 4 tight ends for two tight end positions is the same reason we oughta carry more than one receiver capable of playing on the outside. Maybe Greg Salas is capable of playing the outside, but as of now, I don't know.

 

[BananaRepublican]

Tavon Wilson played much more than expected, and from my view spent a lot of time around the ball....

In a way I think they have redesigned the pass defense around Wilson. He is like Gronk to the offense. Even if he's not making the play he's the reason the play (alignment) exists as such.

 

[mgteich]

OK, so we use TE's more than WR's. So, we need 3 of each, plus backups.

At TE, we have the Hooman as a backup, along with an OL as the emergency #5 TE, and a TE on the Practice Squad, the PUP list and the short term IR list.

Our #3 WR is Edelman. Our backup WR is Salas. Our emergency backup is Slater. We have a WR on the Practice Squad.

The question is not about the number as much as the quality of the #3 WR and the quality of the backup. This board has not been happy about the prospect of having Edelman as our #3 WR, or of Edelman in the role of the backup on the outside (perhaps Salas is really ready for that role). Most of us believe that Gaffney or Branch would represent an upgrade.

Granted it was due to playing with the lead, but i thought it was interesting to note that the Pats used a 3 TE formation more often than a 3 WR formation, and a 1 WR formation more often than a 3 WR formation. Perhaps some of the angst about who the 3rd WR would be over the last couple of months was a bit of an over reaction.


Positional groupings: TEs dominate - espnBoston

2 WR/2 TE/1 RB -- 46 of 67
1 WR/3 TE/1 RB -- 8 of 67
3 WR/2 TE -- 7 of 67
1 WR/2 TE/1 FB/1 RB -- 4 of 67
3 TE/1 FB/1 RB -- 2 of 67​

 

[mgteich]

The situation is simpler than this. Wilson is our dime back, instead of a corner.

In a way I think they have redesigned the pass defense around Wilson. He is like Gronk to the offense. Even if he's not making the play he's the reason the play (alignment) exists as such.

 

[ATippett56]

OK, so we use TE's more than WR's. So, we need 3 of each, plus backups.

At TE, we have the Hooman as a backup, along with an OL as the emergency #5 TE, and a TE on the Practice Squad, the PUP list and the short term IR list.

The tight ends currently on the New England Patriots roster:

Gronkowski
Hernandez
Fells
Hoomanawanui
Shiancoe (Injured Reserve "Exempt")
Ballard (PUP)
Silvestro (Practice Squad)

The wide receivers currently on the New England Patriots roster:

Lloyd
Welker
Edelman
Salas
Slater (wide receiver in designation only)
Taylor (Practice Squad)

Official Website of the New England Patriots | Team - Players

Comparatively speaking, the New England Patriots seem a little thin at the wide receiver position.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Yes we played that much nickel.
DBs played 317 aggregate snaps on 65 plays.
That is 4.88 per snap.
Can't really get a percentage for base because we don't know how much was nickel.

Thanks to Reiss -- the Pats were in sub for 42 of 65, were in base for 21 and short yardage for 2. But what's interesting is that a lot of sub was dime:

"The Patriots played two different subpackages on Sunday -- a nickel with cornerback Ras-I Dowling replacing either linebacker Dont'a Hightower or linebacker Brandon Spikes, and a dime with Dowling and safety Tavon Wilson replacing Spikes and Hightower."

It's that that limited Spikes and Hightower's reps rather than one of the DEs playing linebacker.

 

[mgteich]

I agree. i would add a wide receiver in place of the 16th front seven defensive player.

But it does depend on your evaluations of Edelman and Salas. Perhaps the team considers them as equal to Fells and Hooman.

The tight ends currently on the New England Patriots roster:

Gronkowski
Hernandez
Fells
Hoomanawanui
Shiancoe (Injured Reserve "Exempt")
Ballard (PUP)
Silvestro (Practice Squad)

The wide receivers currently on the New England Patriots roster:

Lloyd
Welker
Edelman
Salas
Slater (wide receiver in designation only)
Taylor (Practice Squad)

Official Website of the New England Patriots | Team - Players

Comparatively speaking, the New England Patriots seem a little thin at the wide receiver position.

 

[Ring 6]

In a way I think they have redesigned the pass defense around Wilson. He is like Gronk to the offense. Even if he's not making the play he's the reason the play (alignment) exists as such.

No, he is a backup safety who sees a decent amount of playing time

 

[Ring 6]

Thanks to Reiss -- the Pats were in sub for 42 of 65, were in base for 21 and short yardage for 2. But what's interesting is that a lot of sub was dime:

"The Patriots played two different subpackages on Sunday -- a nickel with cornerback Ras-I Dowling replacing either linebacker Dont'a Hightower or linebacker Brandon Spikes, and a dime with Dowling and safety Tavon Wilson replacing Spikes and Hightower."

It's that that limited Spikes and Hightower's reps rather than one of the DEs playing linebacker.

It would appear from that break down that we played about 27 snaps in nickle and 15 in dime.

 

[Mike the Brit]

It would appear from that break down that we played about 27 snaps in nickle and 15 in dime.

Sounds right.

Big thanks to the Reiss blog, not just for breaking down the obvious (plays by individuals) but for tracking how that relates to formations (e.g. they explained why I saw Cannon and Vollmer on the field at the same time)

 

[mgteich]

Didn't Cannon play RG after Connolly was injured?

Sounds right.

Big thanks to the Reiss blog, not just for breaking down the obvious (plays by individuals) but for tracking how that relates to formations (e.g. they explained why I saw Cannon and Vollmer on the field at the same time)

 

[Mike the Brit]

Didn't Cannon play RG after Connolly was injured?

Indeed -- not that Nantz and Simms mentioned it ...