Waters' Locker Cleaned Out (Update: Reports Nameplate Taken Down)

[Joker]

Never!

RamRodRay: Mark "unlimited ceiling" Sanchez

McGinley: Sanchize the Franchise

Carlton: It's all Schotty's fault!

Hugh Douglas: Sanchez NFL MVP!

alright..I apologize, Mo...that was a rather low blow...

 

[robbomango]

The name Sanchez and





MVP


Don't belong in the same sentence. My keyboard won't even allow me to type it on the same line together. I'll try again.

Sanchez and M..V..V..V, M.V..V

It's like the Fonze trying to say he's sorry, it just ain't happening.

 

[Joker]

Fonzie???...Sancheese ain't even a knockoff, bargain basement Freddie Prinze from Chico and the Man

 

[PatsGirl2011]

Can the offensive line get any worse than the 2003 crew. I've seen worse, and Brady didn't get killed. The guys probably taken more hits than any active QB, but he is still standing and competes despite any limitations of the players in front of him.

 

[supafly]

Ever wonder how those things get started? LOL

I really still think that there are a ton of differences between the threads that are made claiming that trading people are the right thing to do (when they are clearly not), and the thread that I started where I did not take a stance and looked at the pros and cons of each side, MoLewisRocks.

I made it very clear on just about every other page that I did NOT want to trade Welker.

I tried to start a reasonable discussion--that is all. The subject matter was just too controversial and I won't make that same mistake.

I also used some speculation (which I clearly stated in the OP and thread title) on why I feared that it may happen, and that was too opinion based I suppose. However I never once claimed that Welker 'should be traded' like all of the other threads seem to do. As a matter of fact, I repeatedly stated that I did not want him traded, but only feared that it may happen.

Please be fair and try to see the differences, but as I've said before--to each his own.

 

[supafly]

Can the offensive line get any worse than the 2003 crew. I've seen worse, and Brady didn't get killed. The guys probably taken more hits than any active QB, but he is still standing and competes despite any limitations of the players in front of him.

I agree with some of what you're saying, PatsGirl2011. I also think that they've done just fine with worse in the past, and will be able to try and limit the exposure by doing some other things.

The worry is that even though it's proven that Brady's tough as nails and has repeatedly played through many injuries, there will sadly be a time when someone gets a hold of him and causes something negative to our season.

Belichick would say that the team will play with who they have, but at the same time I also think that a 9th offensive lineman will be added very shortly here.

 

[PatsGirl2011]

I agree with some of what you're saying, PatsGirl2011. I also think that they've done just fine with worse in the past, and will be able to try and limit the exposure by doing some other things.

The worry is that even though it's proven that Brady's tough as nails and has repeatedly played through many injuries, there will sadly be a time when someone gets a hold of him and causes something negative to our season.

Belichick would say that the team will play with who they have, but at the same time I also think that a 9th offensive lineman will be added very shortly here.

Injuries happen..the last time Brady was hurt it was a freak play. That could be Andrew Luck, Rodgers, or anyone. I do agree that BB will probably add a lineman, but I don't think the O-line is as bad as people think..

 

[borg]

Curran's sources say yesterday's Waters reports are inaccurate....but.....no details

Much undue ado about Brian Waters

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Curran's sources say yesterday's Waters reports are inaccurate....but.....no details

Much undue ado about Brian Waters

Laughed out loud when I read Curran's story. Was worried about who was going to carry Bob Kraft's luggage now that Zolak has a semi-real job. Think we know now...it's Tom E.

Bottomline is this - regardless of the reason why the fact remains that not having Brian Waters hurts this O-line significantly.
What hurts the O-line hurts the QB and when that happens this team suffers.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Curran's sources say yesterday's Waters reports are inaccurate....but.....no details

Much undue ado about Brian Waters

Personally I think this story makes total sense. Waters simply has no idea what the heck he wants to do. There is no way in freakin' heck the Pats would cut the salary of a ProBowl player. Restructure maybe (which Bedard implies).. but not a pay cut. Pats have made some poor decisions on players but mucking up this situation doesn't seem to fall in that catagory.

I'm also confident that they would not bury this guy with fines if he decides to come back.

Bedard and SMY are following the Howe storyline and imply that Waters verbally agreed to the restructuring but has yet to sign the revised contractual agreement. They also imply that the per game $ might actually be more than the $ from last year which seems like the Pats tried to do right by BW after an excellent 2011 season.

Patriots still waiting on return of guard Brian Waters - Patriots - Boston.com

 

[mrscruff]

where's my twenty bucks, Curran...

oh yeah..by the way...I read your tweets....I rarely bother with the rest of the gaggling geese but you are required reading as far as I'm concerned. Just wondering though, is there any way you could give Ordway a slap on the back of his fat head...?

Get in line behind Bobby Valentine.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I really still think that there are a ton of differences between the threads that are made claiming that trading people are the right thing to do (when they are clearly not), and the thread that I started where I did not take a stance and looked at the pros and cons of each side, MoLewisRocks.

I made it very clear on just about every other page that I did NOT want to trade Welker.

I tried to start a reasonable discussion--that is all. The subject matter was just too controversial and I won't make that same mistake.

I also used some speculation (which I clearly stated in the OP and thread title) on why I feared that it may happen, and that was too opinion based I suppose. However I never once claimed that Welker 'should be traded' like all of the other threads seem to do. As a matter of fact, I repeatedly stated that I did not want him traded, but only feared that it may happen.

Please be fair and try to see the differences, but as I've said before--to each his own.

What I was pointing out to you was the origin of the Brady-Barkley thread was a supposedly innocuous twitter comment from the guy you were thanking for offering his opinion as some sort of clarification. Controversey pays the bills in his business.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Awww, mo...you're like a terrier with a chew toy on that. Someday we'll hash it out and you'll say..."Realllly..."

I don't think so. Doesn't surprise me you still don't see that and will cling to your version of the story dispite it's being fairly debunked in short order. After all, in the long run it served it's purpose. Made you relevant enough to land on your feet with Comcast... I just wish your trade hadn't become so competitive and ratings driven. I miss solid reporting as opposed to breaking news and everyone who didn't mounting tortured counter spin on it. And say hi to Jonathan for me.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Gotta luv being a sports reporter these days where everyone reading/viewing has a forum on the net. Write something that can be interpreted by some as supporting the club's position...you're a shill for the Krafts. Write a piece advocating a player's position...you're a Pats org hater.

 

[Rob0729]

No problem.

My take is that they've been exceptionally accommodating to a player who has shown no inclination to return and has cold feet about leaving home. The reasons for his not wanting to leave have been quietly alluded to and I think it's wise to tread lightly on questioning his commitment to football too strongly because of that. Nobody's indicated if it's a family illness or some other dynamic but a wide berth has been given.

But the fact he's past the point where he was expected to come in - clearly - means they're at peace with moving on.

I've gotten indications from multiple people that the notion of a "pay cut" are too simple. And that's not hammering Jeff Howe. He's reporting what he's been told. Unfortunately, the backstory is too vague from both sides to figure out if either one is the bad guy in this or if there even is one.

Thanks Tom. It really didn't make sense that the Pats would make Waters take a paycut from a bargain of a $1.4 million salary. It also seems that they were Roman Phifering him too (making over and above accommodations to allow him to spend time with his family).

Of course yesterday we got a lot of spin from your brethren. Felger was on a rampage yesterday to paint the Pats are the cheap franchise that was trying to insult a 11 year veteran with a paycut and have to earn what he was originally contracted for with roster bonuses. Even when he had Greg Bedard on who contradicted that argument with that Water verbally agreed to a new deal which he heard had additional money than his current contract, Felger basically ignored it and went on with his mantra. No wonder why people thought the Pats were cheaping out on Waters.

I know the Pats are notoriously hard ball negotiators, but to make Waters take a pay cut from $1.4 million just seemed out of character. Usually they overpay the veteran older guys who don't command much money over market value (see Shaun Ellis last year) and play hard ball with the highly touted guys who command big dollars.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The cost of other players is irrelavant, according to Bedard, he agreed to a restructure, Bedard checked with him or his representatives and says thats a fact. I guess he was homesick last year, he has 5 kids and every year it was harder and harder for him to leave his family. They expected him in TC but I guess when the time came he didnt want to leave his family, he probably signed with us for a chance for a super bowl as he probably has enough money.
I think the team still thought he would eventually show up, now if hes asking for more money how can the team fork over more money to a guy who skipped TC. Maybe they work something out if he does want to win a super bowl and comes to that realization, but for now he aint here and they're planning the year without him.

When did Bedard say that, because it's not what he's put in print. Bedard said he had heard they were going to approach him about a restructure and it wasn't believed to be a problem. He never indicates where he got his information on either the approach or it not being an issue. He said the other day he has only talked to Waters once all off season. He had contended all off season that it was his belief Waters would be back but he had no direct knowledge. But he never said what he was basing that on. Could be team source, league source (often agent or someone in league office privy to potential negotiations - and as Jason indicated there would have been some question as to what a restructure in year 2 could even accomplish), a teamate or the player.

Obvioulsy Howe heard about the restructure at some point and decided to run with it now for some reason. Probably because he was putting 2 and 2 together. That said, he was dead wrong about the cap implications rationale.

I haven't seen anyone do more than speculate that he may be asking for more money. And it could well be he is just refusing to take a paycut they thought he would be OK with for some reason... The team may have felt it had a quid pro quo deal in place. Only it's apparent nothing was in writing. They obviously wouldn't want to admit to agreeing to allow him to skip camp, it's so un-system, even for $500K in potential insurance. But he has no reason to trust them when they spent the off season trying to replace him at no small cost. Including paying a former #2 draft pick who never lived up to his potential $400K in advance on a $1.8M one year deal.

What if he reports on their terms or even the prior terms now and they choose to go with their young guys until or unless proven insufficient and he has no way of earning back his new per game or existing LTBE incentives while they sit on him as a cheap backup? With millions banked and concerns about being away from his family for 5+ months, why would any player take that deal unless they are one of the maladjusted ones we are all so concerned about lately who can't make it in life once their stage is taken away...

 

[zipster9]

When did Bedard say that, because it's not what he's put in print. Bedard said he had heard they were going to approach him about a restructure and it wasn't believed to be a problem. He never indicates where he got his information on either the approach or it not being an issue. He said the other day he has only talked to Waters once all off season. He had contended all off season that it was his belief Waters would be back but he had no direct knowledge. But he never said what he was basing that on. Could be team source, league source (often agent or someone in league office privy to potential negotiations - and as Jason indicated there would have been some question as to what a restructure in year 2 could even accomplish), a teamate or the player.

Obvioulsy Howe heard about the restructure at some point and decided to run with it now for some reason. Probably because he was putting 2 and 2 together. That said, he was dead wrong about the cap implications rationale.

I haven't seen anyone do more than speculate that he may be asking for more money. And it could well be he is just refusing to take a paycut they thought he would be OK with for some reason... The team may have felt it had a quid pro quo deal in place. Only it's apparent nothing was in writing. They obviously wouldn't want to admit to agreeing to allow him to skip camp, it's so un-system, even for $500K in potential insurance. But he has no reason to trust them when they spent the off season trying to replace him at no small cost. Including paying a former #2 draft pick who never lived up to his potential $400K in advance on a $1.8M one year deal.

What if he reports on their terms or even the prior terms now and they choose to go with their young guys until or unless proven insufficient and he has no way of earning back his new per game or existing LTBE incentives while they sit on him as a cheap backup? With millions banked and concerns about being away from his family for 5+ months, why would any player take that deal unless they are one of the maladjusted ones we are all so concerned about lately who can't make it in life once their stage is taken away...

Patriots are much better WITH Waters. We all know that. Most folks agree.

Our OL is thin. $1.4m is very cheap for a starter that you can trust. If Waters want a bump in pay raise, it would not be unreasonable. $1.7m? $2m?

It is NOT like he is getting paid to be a backup.

Patriots (or BillB) is stupid. Protect Brady with the best players, period!

 

[Rob0729]

Patriots are much better WITH Waters. We all know that. Most folks agree.

Our OL is thin. $1.4m is very cheap for a starter that you can trust. If Waters want a bump in pay raise, it would not be unreasonable. $1.7m? $2m?

It is NOT like he is getting paid to be a backup.

Patriots (or BillB) is stupid. Protect Brady with the best players, period!

From Tom E Curran:

I've had multiple sources tell me the notion of a pay cut is inaccurate.

My take is that the team's been exceptionally accommodating to a player who has shown no inclination to return and has cold feet about leaving home. I also heard rumblings that, at some point in the offseason, Waters was offered much more to return than the $1.4M but he didn't budge.

Much undue ado about Brian Waters

So if Curran's report is true, how are the Pats stupid? How much money do you offer Waters to come back? $4 million? $6 million? $8 million? It sounds like Waters' decision may not be financially motivated and he just doesn't want to leave his family.

 

[RayClay]

Awww, mo...you're like a terrier with a chew toy on that. Someday we'll hash it out and you'll say..."Realllly..."

There have been questions about stories from "sources", and i particularly questioned the absurdity of Green Ellis as the starting running back. Mea Culpa.

I do think, in the latest imbroglio, people are discounting the physical nature of the impasse. Family, money or whatever, a great physical lineman needs to get out of bed every morning and some days I bet that's not too easy.

Hard to keep football players from playing when those juices start flowing, but there comes a time when the body doesn't respond, no matter how much positive thinking occurs. If Waters was "really ready", not just in shape, I have to think something would have happened.

I can't help thinking about the retirement of Hanna when he had one less healthy limb than Minty Pythons Black Knight.

Is there a possibility that a part time agreement is implied by this point, which would necessitate a non guaranteed deal contingent on a number of games played, agreeable to both sides, meaning he must miss game 1?

 

[Marqui]

It sounds like Waters' decision may not be financially motivated and he just doesn't want to leave his family.

So why doesn't he just retire?