Heavy on the Mayo

[Ring 6]

What i meant was that maybee Mayo can't call plays and make plays. Maybee its too much for him. Just becuase Bruschi could does not mean that Mayo can do the same. Just like not every QB can call plays like Peyton or Brady. I'm not saying that May can't do both things, just that some people can't do both. maybe it is too much pressure for him, maybe not. Saying that he can do it because Bruschi could is a bit like saying " Calling plays while sucessfully executing them should't be a problem for Sanchize, Brady can do it without any problems." Everyone is different and some aren't really playcallers but they are playmakers.

But i'm right with you that having Spikes and Hightower next to him will help him a lot. I'm not hating on Mayo, I beleive he will be a stud in our defense this year, I'm just saying that I don't think that "he can because he could" is a valid argument.

I really have no idea how being the guy who calls the defense would have any impact on what you do once the ball is snapped. I think you are reaching here.
I also don't get the 'Willis is a 'playmaker' Mayo isn't' comments.
People tend to consider 'playmaking' to be sacks or plays in the backfield on a blitz. Willis doesn't make many more of them than Mayo, yet Mayo has played his career in a defense that values doing your job, has rarely asked him to blitz, and by its basic conservative nature wouldn't put him in a position to make those type of plays in a 2gap system.
Its kind of like complaining that Gronkowski didn't have enough rushing yards.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

I also don't get the 'Willis is a 'playmaker' Mayo isn't' comments.
People tend to consider 'playmaking' to be sacks or plays in the backfield on a blitz. Willis doesn't make many more of them than Mayo, yet Mayo has played his career in a defense that values doing your job, has rarely asked him to blitz, and by its basic conservative nature wouldn't put him in a position to make those type of plays in a 2gap system.

Willis - 17 sacks, 5 INT, 40 PD, 31 STF, 12 FF, 2 TD

Mayo - 4.5 sacks, 2 INT, 14 PD, 13 STF, 4 FF, 0 TD


It's not hard to see why Willis is thought of as more of a play maker. It's because he is.


Willis gets more sacks, more INT's, more Passes Defended, more Forced Fumbles, and has 2 more Defensive TD's. Willis has 1 more year of experience, but even if you average those stats on a year by year basis, Willis is clearly more of a playmaker than Mayo.

Its kind of like complaining that Gronkowski didn't have enough rushing yards.

Actually, its nothing like that at all.

 

[Ring 6]

Willis - 17 sacks, 5 INT, 40 PD, 31 STF, 12 FF, 2 TD

Mayo - 4.5 sacks, 2 INT, 14 PD, 13 STF, 4 FF, 0 TD


It's not hard to see why Willis is thought of as more of a play maker. It's because he is.


Willis gets more sacks, more INT's, more Passes Defended, more Forced Fumbles, and has 2 more Defensive TD's. Willis has 1 more year of experience, but even if you average those stats on a year by year basis, Willis is clearly more of a playmaker than Mayo.




Actually, its nothing like that at all.

Well you missed the primary point, that they play different roles.
If you want to consider a LB who blitzes often and gets 3.5 sacks a season a great playmaker and a guy who rarely blizes and gets 1, thats fine, maybe the 1 Int a year vs .5 is your difference maker.
The point is these type of plays are rare for the position, and much more rare in this scheme for that position.
A ILBs ability in making plays starts with playing the running game.

 

[SwedishPat]

I really have no idea how being the guy who calls the defense would have any impact on what you do once the ball is snapped. I think you are reaching here.

Well, you have too be able to change the play pre-snap if you see something. You have to focus on much more if you call the plays. It can easily freeze players if they have to think "what play do we have next, what do I call if they change it up" and stuff like that. If you are good at it, you let all those thought go the second the ball is snapped, and then automaticly know when you huddle up. Some people can't and their play is limited because of it.

I am not saying that, that is Mayos case. I am just saying that it is something that people can be limited by. Not that it is something that limits Mayo, just that I know that some people start thinking too much because of it, and it hurts their game. I know this because I coach and have seen people who sucks when they have to think too much. Once again, I have never said that this is the case with Mayo, just that it is affecting players. It could just be that offenses gameplan againts him as our others Lbs last year really wasn't playmakers. I think that Mayo will make som great plays this year and lead our defense, even if he doesn't call the plays. If he does, I think he will still be good. I don't think that playcalling limits him, I thinkt that it had to do about other players on the defense.

 

[DarrylS]

Well you missed the primary point, that they play different roles.
If you want to consider a LB who blitzes often and gets 3.5 sacks a season a great playmaker and a guy who rarely blizes and gets 1, thats fine, maybe the 1 Int a year vs .5 is your difference maker.
The point is these type of plays are rare for the position, and much more rare in this scheme for that position.
A ILBs ability in making plays starts with playing the running game.

Good point, from my view Mayo is a stud.. and because of so many weaknesses in our Defense, he has not been able to take as many chances as the fans would like.

People get all caught up in stats and the like, but for some reason we still win most games.. BB and the braintrust would not have rewarded him with a long term contract, unless they saw the value. Every time BB talks about him his work ethic and leadership are mentioned....

 

[randomk1]

Willis is the star player on what could be the best D in the NFL. He will obviously get more respect and i think it is deserved.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

Well you missed the primary point, that they play different roles.
If you want to consider a LB who blitzes often and gets 3.5 sacks a season a great playmaker and a guy who rarely blizes and gets 1, thats fine, maybe the 1 Int a year vs .5 is your difference maker.
The point is these type of plays are rare for the position, and much more rare in this scheme for that position.
A ILBs ability in making plays starts with playing the running game.

Incorrect.

I know exactly what your point is. Your point is wrong though.

Mayo and Willis have played very similar roles. The fact that you're trying to compare the difference in their roles to a Tight End not having Rushing Yards is laughable at best.

Willis doesn't just blitz more than Mayo. He's obviously much better in coverage as well, and at stuffing run plays..... its evident by his superior numbers in passes defended, Interceptions, and Tackles for Loss.

I'm a Mayo fan.... but I'm not a blind homer like you are. Willis is clearly the better player, and more of a playmaker.

 

[JackBauer]

Willis is clearly the #1 ILB in the league. Of course, he does play on a much better defense than Mayo has, so I'd wager that helps a bit.

I'm sure Mayo is torn up inside over the fact that he's only the 2nd best ILB in the league.

 

[Deus Irae]

Incorrect.

I know exactly what your point is. Your point is wrong though.

Mayo and Willis have played very similar roles...

No, they haven't. Willis has been a 1 gap LB who's been able to freelance a bit because of the talent around him. Mayo's been a 2 gap LB who's had to forego freelancing because the players around him aren't capable of adjusting as necessary.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Kind of off topic. But does anyone else find it unusual how Mayo's legs are so much skinnier than Welkers?

They're not. Perspective, distance, etc.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

Willis is clearly the #1 ILB in the league. Of course, he does play on a much better defense than Mayo has, so I'd wager that helps a bit.

49ers Defense was really only elite for 1 season (2011). Willis has been dominant since his rookie year.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Mayo is an excellent player, but Willis is a notch above. Willis is in the Singletary, Urlacher, Lewis category, not just a tackling machine, but a playmaker. Mayo is a tackling machine, yet isn't quite in Willis league, I'd say he's an early Tedy Bruschi type, Tedy became a playmaker later on in his career (about 4-5 years in). I think Mayo has the potential to be another Tedy Bruschi, I think Hightower has the potential to be more like Willis.

 

[Ring 6]

Incorrect.

I know exactly what your point is. Your point is wrong though.

Mayo and Willis have played very similar roles. The fact that you're trying to compare the difference in their roles to a Tight End not having Rushing Yards is laughable at best.

Willis doesn't just blitz more than Mayo. He's obviously much better in coverage as well, and at stuffing run plays..... its evident by his superior numbers in passes defended, Interceptions, and Tackles for Loss.

I'm a Mayo fan.... but I'm not a blind homer like you are. Willis is clearly the better player, and more of a playmaker.

The play different roles in different systems. Fan, homer, hater or whatever, that is just simple insight into what is asked of the player rather than judging with a statsheet.

 

[patfanken]

The play different roles in different systems. Fan, homer, hater or whatever, that is just simple insight into what is asked of the player rather than judging with a statsheet.

I agree with you point. But Willis is other worldly. IIRC there was a point midway through last season where he was leading his team tackles, sacks, AND interceptions. That's pretty awesome.

BTW- I don't understand why some people get on Mayo for NOT being Patrick Willis or Lawrence Taylor. Why can't people be happy having a plus LB who can play both inside and outside, is a tackling machine, and one of your top leaders. And if the lack of "big plays" is a problem, wait a minute, because his stat line on "big plays" is growing.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Mayo is an excellent player, but Willis is a notch above. Willis is in the Singletary, Urlacher, Lewis category, not just a tackling machine, but a playmaker. Mayo is a tackling machine, yet isn't quite in Willis league, I'd say he's an early Tedy Bruschi type, Tedy became a playmaker later on in his career (about 4-5 years in). I think Mayo has the potential to be another Tedy Bruschi, I think Hightower has the potential to be more like Willis.

Mayo is a different player than Bruschi. Bruschi was a smart playmaker who was always exactly where he was supposed to be. Mayo is much more of an athlete and has amazing range. I expect that if Mayo was surrounded by better talent, he would rack up significantly more "big plays'.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Mayo is a different player than Bruschi. Bruschi was a smart playmaker who was always exactly where he was supposed to be. Mayo is much more of an athlete and has amazing range. I expect that if Mayo was surrounded by better talent, he would rack up significantly more "big plays'.

People forget the type of "athlete" that Bruschi was, he was very athletic. In fact, I think he still owns some NCAA sack records. AND, he had great hands, was great at interceptions and forcing fumbles. Bruschi might have been the most underrated LB during his playing time.

 

[Reckedtrek]

Mayo is a different player than Bruschi. Bruschi was a smart playmaker who was always exactly where he was supposed to be. Mayo is much more of an athlete and has amazing range. I expect that if Mayo was surrounded by better talent, he would rack up significantly more "big plays'.

We could see this start to happen more often based on the defensive talent and foundation being built in training camp. There's lots to be excited about!

 

[MrNathanDrake]

The play different roles in different systems. Fan, homer, hater or whatever, that is just simple insight into what is asked of the player rather than judging with a statsheet.

They play slightly different roles in slightly different systems.

The difference is NOWHERE close to being comparable to a Tight End not having Rushing Yards like you suggested earlier.

The fact is they've both played Inside Linebacker in a 34 defense for most of their careers. Both play ILB in Nickel packages.

Both have been responsible for stopping runs, blitzing, dropping in coverage, etc.


And Willis has done it much much better. Stop trying to act like we're comparing a Linebacker to a Nose Tackle.


Willis IS a better player and more of a playmaker.... Anyone who disagrees is simply a bias homer.

 

[pats_premi]

Just wondering, if the Mayo will take his game to the next level now that Pepper Johnson is coaching the linebackers ? Players often say that they appreciate being coached by someone who has played game and sees the game through their eyes.

I guess if that is the case, then the teams perhaps should have position coaches/assistants that were ex-players ?

 

[Ring 6]

They play slightly different roles in slightly different systems.

The difference is NOWHERE close to being comparable to a Tight End not having Rushing Yards like you suggested earlier.

The fact is they've both played Inside Linebacker in a 34 defense for most of their careers. Both play ILB in Nickel packages.

Both have been responsible for stopping runs, blitzing, dropping in coverage, etc.


And Willis has done it much much better. Stop trying to act like we're comparing a Linebacker to a Nose Tackle.


Willis IS a better player and more of a playmaker.... Anyone who disagrees is simply a bias homer.

I didn't say Mayo was a better player, I said your extremely limited viewpoint is trying to compare certain statistics between players that have far different responsibilities in systems that ask very different things.
If you cannot recognize the difference between getting tackles for loss in a 2gap system and a 1gap system, or sacks in a blitzing system vs being a LB who almost never blitzes, you either are hiding from the facts or choosing to ignore them.