Sources: Saints' GM could eavesdrop on opposing coaches during home games

[Ivan]

How is Goodell working WITH the NFLPA when he won't let them see all the evidence they need to make a proper judgement call ?

..and the only evidence they have seen puts them at odds with his ruling. Its like a police officer telling a jury "that man killed his wife, and we have the gun and tape of him doing it"..." Oh, but we can't show you that" lol

That's the first i have heard of him denying them access and if it is true then I think he's making a big mistake because he will need their approval to get this done in any kind of satisfactory way. Last i knew he was meeting with player reps about the matter and getting their input, including Brees. He can make the ruling on his own if he wants but would be really stupid to do so. Goodell needs to hand the penalties down before the draft to be fair to the Saints and he needs support from the Union to do so. He's up against is right now and needs to get it done.

 

[pherein]

That's the first i have heard of him denying them access and if it is true then I think he's making a big mistake because he will need their approval to get this done in any kind of satisfactory way. Last i knew he was meeting with player reps about the matter and getting their input, including Brees. He can make the ruling on his own if he wants but would be really stupid to do so. Goodell needs to hand the penalties down before the draft to be fair to the Saints and he needs support from the Union to do so. He's up against is right now and needs to get it done.

I agree, we are pretty confused by this also. Not that we have a draft anymore,lol.
Smith: NFLPA seeks 'direct evidence' prior to discipline

 

[MoLewisrocks]

My gut is the relationship with the NFLPA is the hold up. I am sure the last thing they want is to go to court again. I would guess the league wants to drop the hammer on these guys and somehow come out smelling like a rose with the union. I don't see how they could manage it, but it would not surprise me to think the arrogance of the league offices would make them think that the NFLPA should be on their side on this.

Pure speculation on my part. The joys of being a fan.

Yeah, because they deluded themselves into thinking on one hand the union would see the merit in protecting the majority of it's members from a small minority potentially aiming to injure a fellow competitor for compensation outside the framework of their collectively bargained contract...

The NFLPA has been given access to all the pertinent information in this matter. They are just rope a doping and stalling, same deal as HgH testing they agreed to allow 9 months ago to get a new CBA and the lockout ended...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I agree, we are pretty confused by this also. Not that we have a draft anymore,lol.
Smith: NFLPA seeks 'direct evidence' prior to discipline

The evidence had been available for them to see before that piece was written and since then Goodell's has had them all over to see whatever they wanted to see. Please pherein, you can't be that gullible. The NFLPA is just stalling because they don't want to cross any faction of their constituency no matter who is at fault or what is at risk (beyond their jobs). They claim to be champions of player safety on the one hand but they have to defend via appeal anyone Goodell punishes for violating league rules and in the process potentially undermining player safety. And what they intend to say in defense of any player disciplined for participating in this bounty or even pay for play program is coach made me do it (kind of like the dog ate my homework). That doesn't work for kids let alone grown assed men.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The quote continues:



From reading that article, while it may be true that Muller had a wiring device so he could eavesdrop on the Saints coaching staff, the inside source claims that Loomis re-wired the device to allow him to listen to opposing coaches. This un-named source needs to come out with proof that Loomis did do what he allegedly did. Otherwise I'm calling BS. Just like ESPN reported that we allegedly video taped the Rams walkthrough practice before the SB.

ESPN didn't report that until John Tomasse of the Herald reported he had solid confirmation through additional sources. Turns out his sources were crap. This is apples and oranges. ESPN is reporting on an allegation that has been acknowledged as having been made to a district attorney and the FBI...and they have verified the fact that the allegation was made and they are investigating the matter. ESPN doesn't have to prove a damn thing.

 

[PatsSox363804]

There are people on their forum now saying there is absolutely no way knowing the audio calls would be relevant in the next game because it would be too hard to decode, unlike the hand signals Nor would there be enough time to hear the call and relay it to the offense/defense, unlike the hand signals. Christ the hypocrisy is amazing.

 

[Deus Irae]

The quote continues:



From reading that article, while it may be true that Muller had a wiring device so he could eavesdrop on the Saints coaching staff, the inside source claims that Loomis re-wired the device to allow him to listen to opposing coaches. This un-named source needs to come out with proof that Loomis did do what he allegedly did. Otherwise I'm calling BS. Just like ESPN reported that we allegedly video taped the Rams walkthrough practice before the SB.

"This un-named source" doesn't need to do any such thing.

 

[stcjones]

Great points here. It really isn't just about getting "the play codes" that that wiretap would have been for. On Cowherd's show today some guy brought up that it would give them insight into what PLAYS they may be calling in certain situations....such as "If we don't get the first on 3rd and short here we are going with a fake punt" for example. Coaches don't just sit there rattling off "Alright Blue 44, roger left, frozen turkey" all game long....they do talk in PLAIN english a fair amount. Alot of former players verified that today.........I think this has the potential to get very bad for the saints.....They are becoming a very, very unethical and immoral franchise more every day....

Yeah, breaking the law and bugging private communications is just plain fun, videotaping hand signals that anyone in stadium could see is just plain evil.

Sorry, but Polian's explanation is stupid. So if say the opposing QB got injured during the game and the team is covering it up while he is still playing, Polian thinks that if they discussed it in the booth that Loomis couldn't understand coaches' terminology like "I think Cam Newton has a separated shoulder".

Sorry, there is so much more that goes on during the game that is private intell than just coaches speak. If Loomis recorded the talk, he could have every play call.

 

[stcjones]

I am on a car forum and this moron on there is a saints fan..this is what he has to say regarding this latest news.



He can't read and can barley write

Speaking of "Barley".....I could go for a Sam Adams Boston Lager right about now.......

 

[stcjones]

Schlereth is also a guy who, when someone brought up the Broncos the salary cap violations 90s in a discussion about the Patriots rule violation 5 years ago, claimed that "everybody did it" and acted like it was no big deal. Then he went on to say he felt "violated" by what the Patriots did.

He's either a moron or he does a great job acting like one.

Nope.....you have it right....he is a arrogant moron.....the worst kind!

 

[MoLewisrocks]

NFL.com news: State, feds investigating allegations against Mickey Loomis

 

[Wolfpack]

I would agree with that, but he has already passed judgement on this quite awhile back with the team, coach and GM. He had the evidence then. He's just dragging it out.

Which is different because, as I stated, the players have a union representing them ready to file appeals if anything is out of order and Goodell has to make sure his suspensions are 100% in line with the CBA. With the coaches and management, there are no such concerns so it is far easier.

 

[pherein]

The evidence had been available for them to see before that piece was written and since then Goodell's has had them all over to see whatever they wanted to see. Please pherein, you can't be that gullible. The NFLPA is just stalling because they don't want to cross any faction of their constituency no matter who is at fault or what is at risk (beyond their jobs). They claim to be champions of player safety on the one hand but they have to defend via appeal anyone Goodell punishes for violating league rules and in the process potentially undermining player safety. And what they intend to say in defense of any player disciplined for participating in this bounty or even pay for play program is coach made me do it (kind of like the dog ate my homework). That doesn't work for kids let alone grown assed men.

Im wondering when you knew that the NLFPA had been given all evidence?
Because according to them, they still have not.
I mean, pick a month march, still nothing
NFLPA to meet with NFL, review New Orleans Saints bounty findings - Jim Trotter - SI.com

april I posted

..and the only person who has changed his story so far has been Goodell

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/02042012/2/nfl-goodell-meet-nflpa-talk-bounty-punishment.html

"We've given the NFLPA two of our confidential reports, which we've shared with our clubs...and we'll have the meeting today," said Goodell. "Hopefully they'll get some more information, (and) we'll get a recommendation from them."

Goodell hopes to issue Saints player penalties 'very soon'

"I am not necessarily looking for their recommendation on discipline," Goodell added of the union. "I am looking for their recommendation on what we do to continue to make our game safer and to get this type of activity out of the game and get back to the point where we have respect for each other and the game itself."

Those are 2 opposite statements. Where did you read the NFLPA has received all they they ask for and are happy ?

I know both sides have motives, but only one side is changing their story, and its not the NFLPA

 

[Rob0729]

A day later, I am still a little skeptical of the ESPN report, but I am more amazed by the effort by many of the people in the media to say that even if it is true that Loomis couldn't have gained any information that could have gained a competitive advantage for the Saints. It just makes no sense.

Florio has now joined the defense of Loomis brigade. He even had the nerve to argue that don't use the "They wouldn't have done it if it didn't give them a competitive edge" argument considering he used it repeatedly for the Pats' in Spygate.

I am willing to believe that this story is complete and utter BS, but if it isn't I don't know how you can argue that Loomis couldn't have gained a competitive advantage by gaining sensitive information from the other team.

 

[stcjones]

Hey....I like the Falcons primarily because Matty Ryan came from Boston College!!! Had them going all the way to the NFC Championship last year losing to the Pack....however, they had too many holes on D and Matt couldn't get the chemistry going with Julio as well as everyone expected. Heck even Roddy's play fell off .....I don't quite know what happened to them....Anyways, agree with your take on everything here. Guys have been scoping out opponents since the league started....called gamesmanship. You can even film from certain areas in the stadium and most of them are keying in on the hand signals you can believe that. What BB violated was having the camera on field level....at least that is the most I have been able to learn from what the violation was. The saints potentially could have heard the actual playcalling or scheming VERBATIM......much of which is just talked about like you and I would talk about a play. That is extremely damaging and unethical/immoral. The Saints players were just NOT very good during those years and I don't think that even if they KNEW the next play coming....that they could have stopped it! The fact that their record being sorry ***ed during this apparent eavesdropping is really IRRELEVANT!!!

ok first off just wondering do y'all every knock on the falcons anymore?
-we finally got 4 back to back winning seasons and back to back playoffs.....yeah yeah I know we stunk in the playoffs. but at least we are doing better then a lot of teams right now.

---------------------------------------------
as for this saints are worse then the spygate. y'all just saw hand signals, while they heard word for word.
-funny thing is they had barely one winning season and the other two were 8-8. LMBO that is pathetic to cheat and still suck at it. (regardless cheating is cheating.....even if you suck at it. LOL
- with them hearing falcons/panties/bucs they could actually start to learn what was what and plan ahead of time what to do if the heard a certain play.
- Loomis could call down and say if something was going on. injuries, tactics later, etc. it exceeds more then jst knowing plays.

now yes they do not have video proof of this crap. but for it to hit so big, I believe there is something. with the FBI getting involved, they will find out.....just like Nixon with the water gate kind of.

but with it being a 3 1/2 months to pre season, draft, bounty hand outs to players, meetings, looking into evidence, etc.....then I believe we will not get an answer until next off season.

 

[condon84]

ESPN didn't report that until John Tomasse of the Herald reported he had solid confirmation through additional sources. Turns out his sources were crap. This is apples and oranges. ESPN is reporting on an allegation that has been acknowledged as having been made to a district attorney and the FBI...and they have verified the fact that the allegation was made and they are investigating the matter. ESPN doesn't have to prove a damn thing.

You're right, ESPN doesn't have to prove a thing. But I will wait and see what the investigation uncovers before I judge the Saints organization. I just can't stand ESPN's propensity for sensationalizing and driving news instead of just reporting it. The OTL piece may in fact just be reporting news but I know ESPN will run non-stop side pieces, talking heads talking about this, etc. etc. until the sun don't shine. Maybe I just hate ESPN.

 

[Rob0729]

ESPN didn't report that until John Tomasse of the Herald reported he had solid confirmation through additional sources. Turns out his sources were crap. This is apples and oranges. ESPN is reporting on an allegation that has been acknowledged as having been made to a district attorney and the FBI...and they have verified the fact that the allegation was made and they are investigating the matter. ESPN doesn't have to prove a damn thing.

Actually, the Mike Fish column on Matt Walsh was one of the worst cases of journalism that ESPN or any major news source ever did. Matt Walsh was outed by the NY Times and ESPN rushed to put out Fish's interview with Walsh that they had been sitting on for months because Walsh made some very vague and damaging claims without providing one shred of proof that his claims were true and even what damning evidence he had. ESPN sat on the story because they refused to pay Walsh for access to the evidence. The second the NY Times mentioned Walsh, they posted the story even though they couldn't confirm Walsh had any evidence against the Pats and that evidence was anything of any significance.

 

[stcjones]

There was no walkthrough taped. That has been proven.
What the Patriots were guilty of was filming coaching signals from a different spot than where it is allowed, because Bill Belichick interpretted the ruling to be that it only mattered if the tape was used during that game, which never happened.
You should really get your facts straight.

"What the Patriots were guilty of WAS FILMING COACHES SIGNALS FROM A DIFFERENT SPOT THAN WHERE IT IS ALLOWED" Yes....someone who gets it!!!! This is exactly the point and why it burns my ***** that all these mediots keep saying "Boy I wish we could have gotten our hands on those videos and seen what was on them before the Commish destroyed them" Why???? We know what is on them.....SAME THING that EVERY OTHER team has on their videos that they obtained FROM THE LEGAL/approved areas in the stadium.....coaches hand signals and formations!!! Why do they continue to make it out like the Pats and BB were the only one's who ever tried to get an edge by "stealing signals" Its been going on since American Football began......goes on in Pro baseball too.....

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Actually, the Mike Fish column on Matt Walsh was one of the worst cases of journalism that ESPN or any major news source ever did. Matt Walsh was outed by the NY Times and ESPN rushed to put out Fish's interview with Walsh that they had been sitting on for months because Walsh made some very vague and damaging claims without providing one shred of proof that his claims were true and even what damning evidence he had. ESPN sat on the story because they refused to pay Walsh for access to the evidence. The second the NY Times mentioned Walsh, they posted the story even though they couldn't confirm Walsh had any evidence against the Pats and that evidence was anything of any significance.

But none of it had legs until Tomasse penned his hatchet piece on Saturday specifically claiming the existence of a walk through tape filmed by Walsh...which of course never existed.

 

[Jackson 2]

But none of it had legs until Tomasse penned his hatchet piece on Saturday specifically claiming the existence of a walk through tape filmed by Walsh...which of course never existed.

I believe that without Tomase's Saturday column, the Specter and Walsh love-fest would likely have never happened. The timing of it, combined with ESPN's relentless coverage of it virtually all afternoon before kick-off and then the loss to the Giants provided the perfect storm to propel it to the front pages everywhere. I could be wrong, but that's what I believe. It remains my worst sports memory ever, by far, and I go back to the fifties as a kid and a fan.