Defensive Backs

[goheels22002]

Cash spent un-earned: Leigh Bodden cap hit when released $3,000,000, for instance..

Resources burnt: Numerous high draft picks released by the team Meriwether, Butler, Wilhite, etc,

The point is there is a major problem with the pass defense/coverage, despite numerous attempts to resolve the issues that is a fact.

Curtis frick’n Painter lite this squad up!

Dan Orlovsky had a nice game against the Patriots. I think Curtis Painter was busy priming the garage doors.

 

[goheels22002]

No love to the offense?

I agree. The #1 pick should be an offensive lineman. #2 should be a DE/OL. After that, whoever is the best guy on the board.

 

[WhiZa]

dan orlovsky had a nice 2 minutes against the patriots. I think curtis painter was busy priming the garage doors.

ffy..........

 

[Ring 6]

I had to logout yesterday to feed my kids and put them to bed, but this could go on forever. I thought I’d post (what I thought was) an amusing limerick about an obvious situation, that the Pats secondary sucked last year.

I don’t have time to endlessly split hairs over pointless arguments for hours on end, so you win the argument, congratulations, the Pats secondary is great. You can also believe the sky is green and I’m sure can find some stats to back that up too. Have a nice day.

Well, of course you know none of that is my point.
My point was first that you severely overstated Bodden, Butler and Wilhite and the level of failure and decision making question.
Then secondly that you claimed you are holding BB accountable. My question was do you feel he is not accountable to his job and your complaints will make him more accountable?

There is no 'argument to win'. I am simply asking you to revisit your first comments and explain your second.
If you wish to post and not get responses to turn into discussion, then say so, and I will not make an effort.

 

[Ring 6]

No love to the offense?

We need upgrades in those 6 spots more than any spot on offense. I would be fine with a WR pick mixed in there because you don't just draft for this year and our WR corps is old.

 

[Kontradiction]

IS Boykin still there at 65?

I hope so. The additions of him and either Kirkpatrick or Barron would vastly improve this secondary. That said, BB will probably throw a monkey wrench into that plan and select Vinny Gumbatz, OC, out of New Jersey State.

 

[patfanken]

The secondary is all about talent. Although I am all for getting more of it, we should remember that just getting back Chung was a big factor in the Pats defense playing at a higher level in the playoffs than they did in the regular season. FYI the Pats had the 5th best passing D and the 5th best overall D in the playoffs.

Can you imagine the potential impact of just getting Dowling back will have, let alone adding Gregory, Barrett, and the improved play you'd expect from Arrington, McCourty, and Moore with another year's experience, and a full off season under their belts......AND at least one pick in the top 2 rounds added to the DB's

I think we often forget that especially when you are talking secondary, the sum is always greater than the individual parts. The sum was NEVER together last season. Safety was a disaster position. BB might have made the right moves getting rid of Merriweather and Sanders....at the time, but when BOTH Chung and Barrett were lost for most of the season, left us with a huge hole to fill. Ventrone and Brown were simply incapable. Ihedigbu was just marginally capable, and that is why no CB would ever get S support for most of the season.

I think my point is that this defense, without any help from the draft, is going to be much improved, count on THAT. That's not to mean it will suddenly become a dominant defense, but I do expect it go from the 30's back into the teens, And with this offense, that will be a big impact.

All that being said, that's not so say that I don't relish adding defensive help through the draft. If we use all our picks (and I hope we don't) I would be unhappy if 4 of them weren't defensive players. And if all we got out of this draft was a DB, DT/DE, OLB/DE, and 2 or three picks next year, I'd be thrilled any of the following realistic choices Barron, or Kirkpatrick- (requires trade up) McClellin or Branch - Still,Thompson/Reyes - or in the lower rounds one of TJohnson, Iloki, Jenkins, or Martin.

And although there are a lot of fans of guys like Boykins, Robinson, and Howsley, I really don't want to watch any more midget Pats CBs have guys covered only to lose the "battle for the ball". Butler's problem was less about being able to cover a receiver, and more about his inability to be physical enough to make a play on the ball when it got there.

 

[WhiZa]

We need upgrades in those 6 spots more than any spot on offense. I would be fine with a WR pick mixed in there because you don't just draft for this year and our WR corps is old.

You heard Matt Light retired and Vollmer is coming off a back injury and is scheduled to be a FA after this year? OT is a pretty big need.

 

[JohninLynn]

Well, of course you know none of that is my point.
My point was first that you severely overstated Bodden, Butler and Wilhite and the level of failure and decision making question.
Then secondly that you claimed you are holding BB accountable. My question was do you feel he is not accountable to his job and your complaints will make him more accountable?

There is no 'argument to win'. I am simply asking you to revisit your first comments and explain your second.
If you wish to post and not get responses to turn into discussion, then say so, and I will not make an effort.

I may have confused you with another poster, not trying to ruffle any feathers, just having a little fun. It’s true that I don’t have the inclination or the time to present a well thought out position. Maybe I’ll stick to poking fun at the Jets around here, they’re pretty low-hanging fruit anyway!

 

[Ring 6]

You heard Matt Light retired and Vollmer is coming off a back injury and is scheduled to be a FA after this year? OT is a pretty big need.

I don't think it is. We have Solder at LT. Vollmer was healthy by the SB, and there is no reason we cannot re-sign him. We have Cannon as his 'heir apparent' if necessary. We also could move Gallery to RT if needed.
Over the years, BB has done well with young, late round guys, ps guys, etc at RT.
Everyone of those 6 defensive positions is a bigger need IMO.

 

[JackBauer]

Can you imagine the potential impact of just getting Dowling back will have, let alone adding Gregory, Barrett

You're not the lone offender when it comes to this, but I'm sort of at a loss as to why we should be anticipating the return of a guy who has never done anything and, when he was on the field last year, pretty much sucked.

 

[Leemo]

Devin McCourty - Had a record breaking rookie season in talks with Ndamukong Suh, topping HOF Mike Hayne's interception record. Had a sophmore slump but still finished the season on a real solid note. Looks to be a pro-bowler if can stay healthy, regain his focus and keep his poise. Can also can play safety.

Kyle Arrington - Very solid corner who can play nickle. Tied last season with 7INT's which was the most in the NFL. Not an all-star but a good corner back who has a nose for the ball and brings some speed and versatility.

Sterling Moore - No longer under the radar, and played very solid when given opportunities. Made some key clutch plays down the stretch. Really detailed, physical and fundamental as well as being a versatile defensive back.

Ras-I Dowling - promising rookie with size, speed and physicality. If can stay healthy who knows what he can do. Also too could play safety.

Will Allen - steady, heady veteran that provides depth and has never really been below average. Solid threw out his career.

Julian Edelman - Slash man that has filled in well at slot corner. Obviously being a slot WR he knows some routes and has good quickness.

This position needs no extra help in my honest opinion.

Deluded.

Arrington is average, Will Allen who knows what he can do? Edelman was a liability back there, Dowling may be great but he could just as easily end up injured again. We definitely need atleast one CB at some point i n the first 3 rounds

 

[Ring 6]

Deluded.

Arrington is average, Will Allen who knows what he can do? Edelman was a liability back there, Dowling may be great but he could just as easily end up injured again. We definitely need atleast one CB at some point i n the first 3 rounds

Here is how I would describe it.
I could be comfortable with 1-2-3 of McCourty, Dowling, Arrington, and Allen seems like a decent vet to fill the #4 role and play if necessary due to injury.
I would be VERY happy if we added another corner that would fit in anywhere from 1 to 3, move each down a spot.
Arrington as a #4 becomes a positive. Dowling as a 2 or 3 WITH another guy in the mix if he is injured is great. McCourty as 1 or 2 with Dowling and another guy similar to the 2 of them is great too.
I am ok going into the season with this group, and I would be excited if we added another guy in the talent range of Mc and Dowling.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Deluded.

Arrington is average, Will Allen who knows what he can do? Edelman was a liability back there, Dowling may be great but he could just as easily end up injured again. We definitely need atleast one CB at some point i n the first 3 rounds

Antonio Cromartie, Sean Smith, Terrance McGee, Kevin Thomas, Jason Mccourty, Kareem Jackson, Derek Cox, Keenan Lewis, Jimmy Smith, Nate Clements, Sheldon Brown, Antoine Cason, Stanford Routt, Tracy Porter, Ron Bartell.

(I'm aware we don't play CB 1/CB 2, but LCB/RCB)

Those are all the #2 CBs in the AFC. I don't know about you, but I prefer Arrington over most of those guys. Arrington is a solid starting CB, covering the other teams #2 target. However, since Mccourty sucked chunks, he was the one covering Demaryius Thomas, Boldin, and Cruz (and did a good job) He doesn't give up many big plays or TDs, and is oppurtunistic. I hope one of Mccourty/Dowling step up to be our #1 lockdown corner. Andy, to say it'd be nice for Arrington the be the #4 CB is nuts IMO, no 2nd round rookie would outperform him and Mccourty/Dowling have something to prove before they hop him as well.

 

[Mystery Pats Fan]

For NEPettyOfficer72: You posted the following.

"Kyle Arrington - Very solid corner who can play nickle. Tied last season with 7INT's which was the most in the NFL. Not an all-star but a good corner back who has a nose for the ball and brings some speed and versatility."

With due respect for your opinion, can I ask you if you actually saw all of the Pat's games or did you just read the stats?

Arrington is, without a doubt, the weakest link in the secondary, while at the same time being the luckiest.

Yes, he had seven interceptions. Five, of which, landed in his arms as he was standing in open territory all by himself. One actually landed on his chest as he was laying on the ground. His coverage abilities totally stinks.. in fact, Ellis Hobbs makes Arrington look bad. And that is saying something because Hobbs, like Arrington, sucked at man coverage.

That being said, Belichick probably saw the same thing and moved him off of the corner, where he could cover our grandparents, and move him into the slot corner position. result, just as bad as he gave up completions for first down like they were stealing candy from a babyl

He does,, however, have good abilities at running with the football after the catch which probably is the reason that so many, like you, think he is a good player. Running with the ball after an interception is a type of play that people see, but sometimes dont really know how the interception, itself, occured.

At this stage of the 2012 season, I would not be surprised if he is not on the 53 man roster as the season begins.

 

[Mystery Pats Fan]

For NEPettyOfficer72: You posted the following.

"Kyle Arrington - Very solid corner who can play nickle. Tied last season with 7INT's which was the most in the NFL. Not an all-star but a good corner back who has a nose for the ball and brings some speed and versatility."

With due respect for your opinion, can I ask you if you actually saw all of the Pat's games or did you just read the stats?

Arrington is, without a doubt, the weakest link in the secondary, while at the same time being the luckiest.

Yes, he had seven interceptions. Five, of which, landed in his arms as he was standing in open territory all by himself. One actually landed on his chest as he was laying on the ground. His coverage abilities totally stinks.. in fact, Ellis Hobbs makes Arrington look bad. And that is saying something because Hobbs, like Arrington, sucked at man coverage.

That being said, Belichick probably saw the same thing and moved him off of the corner, where he could cover our grandparents, and move him into the slot corner position. result, just as bad as he gave up completions for first down like they were stealing candy from a babyl

He does,, however, have good abilities at running with the football after the catch which probably is the reason that so many, like you, think he is a good player. Running with the ball after an interception is a type of play that people see, but sometimes dont really know how the interception, itself, occured.

At this stage of the 2012 season, I would not be surprised if he is not on the 53 man roster as the season begins.[/b]

.......ten characters

 

[JackBauer]

Someone got a picture of a broken record handy?