Defensive Backs

[Avenger]

Hypothetically if we enter the 2012 season with our defensive back depth chart consisting of the following how would you feel? I think that it would be one of the better secondaries in the NFL.

P. Chung S
S. Gregory S
H. Smith S
S. Moore S/CB
M. Slater S/WR/ST
D. McCourty CB
R. Dowling CB
D. Kirkpatrick CB
B. Boykin CB/KR
K. Arrington CB
J. Edelman CB/WR/PR

 

[Sciz]

I'd be pretty worried about the front 7 with only one second round pick added.

 

[Avenger]

I'd be pretty worried about the front 7 with only one second round pick added.

secondary picks come from this mock that also gives us Curry and Irvin

22. Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama
27. Traded to Browns with 31 for 22 and 37
31. See above
37. Traded to Seahawks for 43 and 106
43. Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
48. Vinny Curry, DE/OLB, Marshall
62. Bruce Irvin, OLB, West Virginia (if Janoris Jenkins falls here Pats may take him)
65. Brandon Boykin, CB/KR, Georgia
93. Traded to Rams with 106 and 126 for 65
106. See above
126. See above

 

[Sciz]

secondary picks come from this mock that also gives us Curry and Irvin

22. Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama
27. Traded to Browns with 31 for 22 and 37
31. See above
37. Traded to Seahawks for 43 and 106
43. Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
48. Vinny Curry, DE/OLB, Marshall
62. Bruce Irvin, OLB, West Virginia (if Janoris Jenkins falls here Pats may take him)
65. Brandon Boykin, CB/KR, Georgia
93. Traded to Rams with 106 and 126 for 65
106. See above
126. See above

I still don't really think you upgraded the front 7 a lot. I don't like Curry and I dislike Irvin.

 

[Ron Sellers]

secondary picks come from this mock that also gives us Curry and Irvin

22. Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama
27. Traded to Browns with 31 for 22 and 37
31. See above
37. Traded to Seahawks for 43 and 106
43. Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
48. Vinny Curry, DE/OLB, Marshall
62. Bruce Irvin, OLB, West Virginia (if Janoris Jenkins falls here Pats may take him)
65. Brandon Boykin, CB/KR, Georgia
93. Traded to Rams with 106 and 126 for 65
106. See above
126. See above

I have nothing against Kirkpatrick or Smith.

However it seems to me a better way to improve the defense would be to focus closer to the line of scrimmage.

While I like the outside the box thinking, three picks in the top 65 on the secondary seems redundant. I would much rather use three picks on the front seven than the back four.

 

[supafly]

Hypothetically if we enter the 2012 season with our defensive back depth chart consisting of the following how would you feel? I think that it would be one of the better secondaries in the NFL.

P. Chung S
S. Gregory S
H. Smith S
S. Moore S/CB
M. Slater S/WR/ST
D. McCourty CB
R. Dowling CB
D. Kirkpatrick CB
B. Boykin CB/KR
K. Arrington CB
J. Edelman CB/WR/PR

Take out Smith, and Kirkpatrick...

Keep Boykin (or later value CB pick), add Markelle Martin.

The secondary will still be a lot deeper and can also improve with the additions of front seven picks. There are just too many holes in the positions of DT, DE, and OLB to mess with 3 early secondary picks.

I'd even feel a lot better if we only added Martin as a safety, and lost out on Boykin. Or they could pick a higher CB and use McCourty at safety in subs for another year. One way or another, I doubt there will be more than ONE pick in the secondary in the first 2-3 rounds.

 

[resdubwhite]

IS Boykin still there at 65?

 

[Avenger]

I have nothing against Kirkpatrick or Smith.

However it seems to me a better way to improve the defense would be to focus closer to the line of scrimmage.

While I like the outside the box thinking, three picks in the top 65 on the secondary seems redundant. I would much rather use three picks on the front seven than the back four.

Inside Linebacker is all set, as is defensive tackle with Wilfork, Love, Pryor and the addition of Fanene and Harrison, if we add a DT it should be a 3rd or 4th rounder like Josh Chapman from Alabama. DE/OLB is a need, but with Ninkovich, the addition of Trevor Scott and the assumed return of Andre Carter I think adding one or two from the draft and possibly another from another team's camp cuts we would be good in that department. We still have Cunningham, and Carpenter that could step up and make the team. Harrison Smith can also play sub package OLB.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I'm a broken record, but CB is all set.

CB: Arrington, Mccourty, Dowling, Moore, Allen.

If Barron is the next stud Safety (draftniks in the draft forum point at his complete game and he is underrated in coverage) then I support a trade up.

S: Chung, Barron (r), Gregory, Dye (r)

Then use the other first and second on the front seven and there we go.

 

[Avenger]

I'm a broken record, but CB is all set.

CB: Arrington, Mccourty, Dowling, Moore, Allen.

If Barron is the next stud Safety (draftniks in the draft forum point at his complete game and he is underrated in coverage) then I support a trade up.

S: Chung, Barron (r), Gregory, Dye (r)

Then use the other first and second on the front seven and there we go.

If we trade up to draft a member of the Alabama secondary I would take Kirkpatrick over Barron, would likely not have to trade up as far, and is tall and can play corner or safety. You can never have too many quality defensive backs.

 

[NEPettyOfficer72]

Devin McCourty - Had a record breaking rookie season in talks with Ndamukong Suh, topping HOF Mike Hayne's interception record. Had a sophmore slump but still finished the season on a real solid note. Looks to be a pro-bowler if can stay healthy, regain his focus and keep his poise. Can also can play safety.

Kyle Arrington - Very solid corner who can play nickle. Tied last season with 7INT's which was the most in the NFL. Not an all-star but a good corner back who has a nose for the ball and brings some speed and versatility.

Sterling Moore - No longer under the radar, and played very solid when given opportunities. Made some key clutch plays down the stretch. Really detailed, physical and fundamental as well as being a versatile defensive back.

Ras-I Dowling - promising rookie with size, speed and physicality. If can stay healthy who knows what he can do. Also too could play safety.

Will Allen - steady, heady veteran that provides depth and has never really been below average. Solid threw out his career.

Julian Edelman - Slash man that has filled in well at slot corner. Obviously being a slot WR he knows some routes and has good quickness.

This position needs no extra help in my honest opinion.

 

[ExpatPack]

secondary picks come from this mock that also gives us Curry and Irvin

22. Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama
27. Traded to Browns with 31 for 22 and 37
31. See above
37. Traded to Seahawks for 43 and 106
43. Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
48. Vinny Curry, DE/OLB, Marshall
62. Bruce Irvin, OLB, West Virginia (if Janoris Jenkins falls here Pats may take him)
65. Brandon Boykin, CB/KR, Georgia
93. Traded to Rams with 106 and 126 for 65
106. See above
126. See above

Harrison Smith will be gone by the 43rd pick. You'd probably have to keep the 31st and use it on Smith if you want him.

 

[Deus Irae]

Assuming health for all current players and a return to the 3-4 base, defensive needs are

OLB
S
DE
DT
CB
ILB

In roughly that order (some might wish to switch OLB and S). CB could be an epic disaster again but, if the players are healthy, they've got it covered from a numbers/recent draft status standpoint.

I see no reason to play the up/down game if the returns are your choices. You're also probably off on Smith lasting to 43, IMO.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Inside Linebacker is all set, as is defensive tackle with Wilfork, Love, Pryor and the addition of Fanene and Harrison, if we add a DT it should be a 3rd or 4th rounder like Josh Chapman from Alabama. DE/OLB is a need, but with Ninkovich, the addition of Trevor Scott and the assumed return of Andre Carter I think adding one or two from the draft and possibly another from another team's camp cuts we would be good in that department. We still have Cunningham, and Carpenter that could step up and make the team. Harrison Smith can also play sub package OLB.

I don't know, I think you're over-estimating the need at CB and under-estimating the need at both DE and OLB. In addition I think your focus is too short-term, looking at only the 2012 season; the draft should be used with an eye beyond this season.

I see a lot of ifs in that strategy: the one that stands out the most is if the team can sign another team's camp cut that will at the same time still be productive for the Patriots. Then there is if Carter is healthy, signs, and is productive; if Cunningham shows more than he has the last two years; if Carpenter steps up; and if the team is not only able to draft Harrison Smith, but as a rookie he is able to learn the nuances of playing both safety and sub-package OLB.

Regardless of whether the formation is a 43 or 34, there will be a combined total of four defensive ends and outside linebackers on the field at any one time. Add in depth needed due to inevitable injuries, and to me those two positions are in most need of attention, other than safety. I don't know if the additions of Vinny Curry and Bruce Irvin would make an appreciable difference to those positions.

 

[patsinthesnow]

If we trade up to draft a member of the Alabama secondary I would take Kirkpatrick over Barron, would likely not have to trade up as far, and is tall and can play corner or safety. You can never have too many quality defensive backs.

I'd rather draft a safety to play safety, and wouldn't draft a CB conversion project until the late second round.

First round CBs are a very mixed bag and tend to suck their rookie year too.

2011: Peterson, Amukamara, J. Smith
2010: Haden, K. Jackson, Mccourty, K. Wilson, P. Robinson
2009: M. Jenkins, V. Davis
2008: L. McKelvin, D.R Cromartie, Talib, M. Jenkins, Cason
2007: Revis, Hall, A. Ross
2006: T. Hill, A. Cromartie, J. Joseph, K. Jennings

Stiff
average CB (no better than Arrington)
very good CB
All Pro
HoF

Now, some stiffs and average CBs could improve like Mccourty, Peterson, Amukamara, etc.

 

[AzPatsFan]

You guys have no perspective.

The Pats secondary is one of the leagues best right now. I concede the acknowledged need for a young FS candidate. That is not based on last year's performance statistics, but rather its "muddling on" despite the loss of all its Safeties early in the season. Considering that they played very wekll to end upo in hte midle of the only real defensive stat that matters.

When BB gave up on Meriwether's inconsistancies, and then cut Sanders for being so out of shape for a team captain, he didn't plan on losing Barrett to IR and Chung for most of the season immediately thereafter. Nevertheless they "muddled through" to a Super Bowl.

This Defense is very young, and it will just have to continue to "muddle on" for a few more years, letting the Offense do the majority of the work and to carry them to the Superbowl before they fully mature, and then carry the Offense.

He added quite a few vet FAs to raise the experience level somewhat, and will add more depth in next weeks draft. Still it takes a few years playing together before the inherent talent plays together and "jells".

 

[supafly]

You guys have no perspective.

The Pats secondary is one of the leagues best right now.

I honestly didn't see too many (if any) posts that debated this, AZ.

 

[VJCPatriot]

You guys have no perspective.

The Pats secondary is one of the leagues best right now. I concede the acknowledged need for a young FS candidate. That is not based on last year's performance statistics, but rather its "muddling on" despite the loss of all its Safeties early in the season. Considering that they played very wekll to end upo in hte midle of the only real defensive stat that matters.

When BB gave up on Meriwether's inconsistancies, and then cut Sanders for being so out of shape for a team captain, he didn't plan on losing Barrett to IR and Chung for most of the season immediately thereafter. Nevertheless they "muddled through" to a Super Bowl.

This Defense is very young, and it will just have to continue to "muddle on" for a few more years, letting the Offense do the majority of the work and to carry them to the Superbowl before they fully mature, and then carry the Offense.

He added quite a few vet FAs to raise the experience level somewhat, and will add more depth in next weeks draft. Still it takes a few years playing together before the inherent talent plays together and "jells".

That vaunted secondary you speak of also gave up the gamewinning drive to the Giants when all the marbles were on the line. There's a difference between 'muddling' along and building a championship team. A lot of it had to do with injuries in all fairness. BB was playing street free agents in the biggest game of the year. And eventually they got exploited.

McCourty has to play better and Dowling has to stay healthy. Gregory is a questionmark but BB signed him for a reason. Safety is still a big need though and the Pats will be exploring that area. There are a number of needs on defense and we'll just have to see how the draft falls. I would love to see a 'balanced' draft where de, olb, cb, and s were all addressed but it likely doesn't shake out that perfectly. You have to draft the best players available because there's no such thing as too much depth in the NFL.

Ridley could be our future bellcow or he could go down with an injury halfway through the season. Is Vereen the answer or will we be glad that BB drafted a Doug Martin instead of a 'need' area?

 

[supafly]

That vaunted secondary you speak of also gave up the gamewinning drive to the Giants when all the marbles were on the line. There's a difference between 'muddling' along and building a championship team. A lot of it had to do with injuries in all fairness. BB was playing street free agents in the biggest game of the year. And eventually they got exploited.

McCourty has to play better and Dowling has to stay healthy. Gregory is a questionmark but BB signed him for a reason. Safety is still a big need though and the Pats will be exploring that area. There are a number of needs on defense and we'll just have to see how the draft falls. I would love to see a 'balanced' draft where de, olb, cb, and s were all addressed but it likely doesn't shake out that perfectly. You have to draft the best players available because there's no such thing as too much depth in the NFL.

Ridley could be our future bellcow or he could go down with an injury halfway through the season. Is Vereen the answer or will we be glad that BB drafted a Doug Martin instead of a 'need' area?

I tend to agree in the vein of being forced to use guys like Molden etc in the SB.

I think the potential to upgrade the depth will carry over to a much more successful group of secondary players overall.

 

[JohninLynn]

Even jag Q.B.’s with little time
Torched our backfield in nickel or dime
All the cash spent un-earned
And the resources burned
Are tantamount to arson - a crime!