Big News Masking Patriots Offseason Success

[Mystery Pats Fan]

I think a key point is that you have a lot of young guys who should get better.

I think assuming no regression and McCourty getting his act together, this team should be easily better and more balanced than last year's team.

And of course there is the return of Ras Dowling at corner. I believe that there was a lot of optimistic vision of him last year before his injury took a season ending toll and we never got to see what he can do.

I for one have extremely high hopes for him and I believe that he will do very well opposite McCourty. If so, it will give the Pats a pair of starting cornerbacks that will have great potential. I expect McCourty will bounce back as his sophomore jinx year has passed.

And, if there is improvement inside at slot corner then this secondary can make a great turnaround. I am not concerned about the play of the safeties.

One addition I really like is that of Steve Gregory, a safety that from what I understand can play the slot corner position inside.

 

[supafly]

And, if there is improvement inside at slot corner then this secondary can make a great turnaround. I am not concerned about the play of the safeties.

One addition I really like is that of Steve Gregory, a safety that from what I understand can play the slot corner position inside.

The thinking with the drafting of Dowling is that they probably could improve 2 positions, rather than just 1.

Dowling is a much better outside CB, with better measurables and a tendency to play much more physically than Arrington.

Arrington will definitely be the slot CB, since that is where he excels and can play best.

If Dowling can play like he did in the first 2 games of the season and show something, then both of those positions will be greatly improved.

As far as the safeties go, you should be concerned about them, since they were the biggest reason for the secondary's decline (and the CB decline) in general. The CB and S positions go hand in hand, and an upgrade at S will certainly allow for the CB play to improve.

 

[WhiZa]

This time of year all the media wants to talk about is big FA signings and trades. Next month it will be all about how teams did in the draft. We won't start hearing about the Patriots being winners in the offseason until the summer went the media starts making their predictions for the upcoming season.

 

[The Scrizz]

compared to the roster at the end of the season, the pats are currently better at 2 positions: WR and TE

RB - minus BGJE....weaker
OL - add gallery, could lose light and waters.....the same or weaker
QB - the same
DL - weaker
LB - the same or weaker depending on how you interpret the loss of mark anderson
DB - the same....I'm not buying into the steven gregory hype

the defense scares me....in a bad way

Ridley = better than BJGE, plus a full year of our 2nd round pick = stronger (plus a couple of good looking FB)
OL = better as of right now, could get weaker pending Light (although full seasons of Cannon and Vollmer as well as an improved Solder could make it stronger or at least the same whether Light retires or not.)
QB - same
DL is weaker? I guess if you don't count Pryor and Brace returning. Carter has a good shot to be back as well, but that is up in the air. I would say losing Ellis is a net positive.
LB - Mark Anderson had what? A great 8 game stretch? I definitely want to see more LB talent but Scott and Cunningham don't make we feel any worse than Anderson. I also am looking forward to seeing what Carter can do in camp this year.
DB - Ridiculously better just by not having Sergio Brown on the field ever. Gregory looks like Rod Woodson compared to him. Ras I looked great in admittedly small sample.

 

[The Scrizz]

First let me say i agree with you and there have been alot of positive good things about this off season.

The only negative for me is that we couldn't get Anderson back. I know the reasons e.g he was very well paid by Buffalo. But the loss of he and carter will be felt as that was 20 sacks worth of production last year between them... can someone like Scott step up? absolutely. All i am saying is we are significantly weaker at the OLB/DE position than last year. Our only known commodity is Ninko and maybe Cunningham if we go back to more of a base 3-4.

We had already lost Carter. We made it to the SB without him. I hope he's back but he really has no bearing on whether the team is as good as the one that just went to the SB.

Anderson was as good as gone after the last 8 games. People are forgetting that when we picked up Anderson for the money we gave him he was not much more of a sure thing than Scott is now.

Fanane/Pryor definitely help the inside pass rush and some combination of Cunningham, Scott, and Carter (Markell) has a good chance to produce Anderson's numbers.

I would be more than happy facing the Giants again with our team right now against their team right now. Who have they lost and who have they signed?

 

[Bostonian1962]

I am in complete, 100% agreement w/ everything in this post.

Captain Stone, you, my friend, are a brilliant man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[IllegalContact]

exactly how is ridley better? they are not better until they show they are

OL is only better if everyone returns (meaning both light and waters) light retiring will be a huge hit on OT depth and there's nobody else around to offset that loss.

DL - no carter and no anderson....pryor and brace? seriously?

DB - at the end of your sentence, you need to say 'I hope'

I think you're a little blind when it comes to reality

Ridley = better than BJGE, plus a full year of our 2nd round pick = stronger (plus a couple of good looking FB)
OL = better as of right now, could get weaker pending Light (although full seasons of Cannon and Vollmer as well as an improved Solder could make it stronger or at least the same whether Light retires or not.)
QB - same
DL is weaker? I guess if you don't count Pryor and Brace returning. Carter has a good shot to be back as well, but that is up in the air. I would say losing Ellis is a net positive.
LB - Mark Anderson had what? A great 8 game stretch? I definitely want to see more LB talent but Scott and Cunningham don't make we feel any worse than Anderson. I also am looking forward to seeing what Carter can do in camp this year.
DB - Ridiculously better just by not having Sergio Brown on the field ever. Gregory looks like Rod Woodson compared to him. Ras I looked great in admittedly small sample.

 

[AzPatsFan]

With the perspective of watching what Bill Belichick has done, (and NOT done), in FA, I think Bill Belichick is revealing that he is really pretty high on his very young Defense. He seems to be adding strength to the Offense and expecting the Defense to improve with experience. In reality, he DOES HAVE a very young Defense, and there is lots of talent at every level.

He added only Gregory and Allen but he actually added Ras-I Dowling and Pat Chung too, two high picks, which he had for only a little portion of last season. So the secondary has already had a injection of returned talent, without the next Draft contributions. I always thought that over the top Safety play, or rather lack of it, was the source of blame for many of McCourty's "problems".

At LB he appears to have lost Mark Anderson, but he gets Cunningham back, added Trevor Scott, probably sees the return of Andre Carter. He also gets another year of development for Ninkovich and Spikes.

On the Defensive line he replaces lost Mike Wright with similar Fanene, gets an interior rusher in Mo Pryor back, hopefully sees further development of Love, Deadrick and Brace. Neither Wright nor Pryor were there for much of last season. Ellis is done and Warren may still be a Shadow Roster player, if Bill needs him.

If Belichick went into the Draft and added a Fanene, Pryor, Cunningham, Scott, Carter, Dowling, Gregory, Allen and Chung, the fans would be ecstatic. In effect, that is what has already happened.

Last season's Defense, despite the criticism, only allowed under 21 ppg. Allowing 17 ppg would put them in the Top Ten,and under 15 would make them a Top Three. That is less than 1 TD per game, allowed. Now add that list of talent, and what do you have?

 

[The Scrizz]

exactly how is ridley better? they are not better until they show they are

OL is only better if everyone returns (meaning both light and waters) light retiring will be a huge hit on OT depth and there's nobody else around to offset that loss.

DL - no carter and no anderson....pryor and brace? seriously?

DB - at the end of your sentence, you need to say 'I hope'

I think you're a little blind when it comes to reality

The reality is that there was no Carter in the playoffs. You are the one who said the team at the end of the season. So sorry you don't get to count Carter.

The reality is that you can't say the O-Line is worse, you can say they might be worse if Light and Waters retire and I could just as easily say that full years of Vollmer and Cannon plus any improvement from Solder make it better. Again, you used the words 'end of season' and 'currently' and don't want to stick to either one in your analysis but I have the reality problem.

The reality is that the biggest flaw BY FAR on the Pats D last year was the safeties. I saw enough in 2 games that Ras I is worth a hundred Sergio Browns and Gregory is better than Ihedigbo any way you slice it. There is no hoping involved here. Gregory, Dowling, and Will Allen are all better players than James Ihedigbo. Sadly Sergio Brown is still on the team if you'd like to stick him out there ahead of any of those guys.

Do you get to count Anderson at DL and LB? Pick one. You originally grouped him at LB so I will keep him there. The DL is better with Fanane and the injured players returning (hopefully Carter being one of them eventually, but even if not, better than the DL at the end of the year).

As for Anderson, I liked him. And he was one of the most overpaid FA's this year. Again, Scott this year could be what Anderson was last year. I guess I just don't think Anderson was key to the defense. It seems you're just penciling him in for 10 sacks again when he had 8 and a half the 4 years before that. Which is 5 fewer than Scott had during that time frame and Scott did it in 3 years instead of 4.

Reality is also that the coach let BJGE walk without too much fuss. He is what he is. Dependable and replaceable. I believe Ridley is a more talented RB, based on what I saw. And I happen to also be a Vereen fan.

So based on your initial descriptions I would say OL is stronger right now. DB is stronger by any rational definition. DL is stronger unless you like Ellis and
Gerard Warren better than Pryor and Fanane.

LB is weaker until Scott/Cunnnigham/Markell Carter show anything but lets not act like Anderson was the 2nd coming.

RB may be slightly weaker today but who knows how they plan on using the 2 good fullbacks they picked up. I don't think it is but I will grant you it's possible.


I'll say one thing, this team in total is stronger than it was a few months ago and a hell of a lot stronger than it was on April 2nd 2011.

 

[Deus Irae]

With the perspective of watching what Bill Belichick has done, (and NOT done), in FA, I think Bill Belichick is revealing that he is really pretty high on his very young Defense. He seems to be adding strength to the Offense and expecting the Defense to improve with experience. In reality, he DOES HAVE a very young Defense, and there is lots of talent at every level.

He added only Gregory and Allen but he actually added Ras-I Dowling and Pat Chung too, two high picks, which he had for only a little portion of last season. So the secondary has already had a injection of returned talent, without the next Draft contributions. I always thought that over the top Safety play, or rather lack of it, was the source of blame for many of McCourty's "problems".

At LB he appears to have lost Mark Anderson, but he gets Cunningham back, added Trevor Scott, probably sees the return of Andre Carter. He also gets another year of development for Ninkovich and Spikes.

On the Defensive line he replaces lost Mike Wright with similar Fanene, gets an interior rusher in Mo Pryor back, hopefully sees further development of Love, Deadrick and Brace. Neither Wright nor Pryor were there for much of last season. Ellis is done and Warren may still be a Shadow Roster player, if Bill needs him.

If Belichick went into the Draft and added a Fanene, Pryor, Cunningham, Scott, Carter, Dowling, Gregory, Allen and Chung, the fans would be ecstatic. In effect, that is what has already happened.

Last season's Defense, despite the criticism, only allowed under 21 ppg. Allowing 17 ppg would put them in the Top Ten,and under 15 would make them a Top Three. That is less than 1 TD per game, allowed. Now add that list of talent, and what do you have?

A GM who knows he needs to improve his defense, a lot, but didn't have much to pick from in free agency.

 

[captain stone]

...or didn't want to spend the money needed to sign the good ones.

 

[ATippett56]

Even though I'm not sold whatsoever on the New England Patriots defensive additions, the New England Patriots have not suffered the major roster losses as compared to the Houston Texans (Demeco Ryans, Eric Winston) and the Baltimore Ravens (Jarret Johnson, Cory Redding, Ben Grubbs). Furthermore, the Pittsburgh Steelers have not upgraded their roster in unrestricted free agency.

 

[Sciz]

...or didn't want to spend the money needed to sign the good ones.

Which is exactly what all the best teams do in free agency.

 

[supafly]

Even though I'm not sold whatsoever on the New England Patriots defensive additions, the New England Patriots have not suffered the major roster losses as compared to the Houston Texans (Demeco Ryans, Eric Winston) and the Baltimore Ravens (Jarret Johnson, Cory Redding, Ben Grubbs). Furthermore, the Pittsburgh Steelers have not upgraded their roster in unrestricted free agency.

I would actually even consider lumping the Steelers in with the other teams that you listed as having roster losses.

They had to cut players to get under the cap, and haven't filled those positions.

It could be argued that they are just as bad off in free agency as the other 2 teams (BAL and HOU).

 

[IllegalContact]

you sure can say the OL is worse..........mankins has an issue with his knee, waters is a year older....they WILL be MUCH worse if light and waters retire. no OT depth (and given the fact that vollmer has been injured 2 of the 3 years he's been here, a full season is by no means a given)

you're right on carter (even though he was technically still part of the team), but they have lost anderson (as for DL or LB, he played both, so losing him is a subtraction on both....don't have to pick one)

so the pats let BJGE walk with too much fuss.....and that means they are better now because you say ridley is more talented (with a penchant for dropping the ball) and you like vereen? LOL.....reality

so far, outside of lloyd, every guy the pats picked up were let go or allowed to walk without too much fuss, so how good can they be (by your logic)

allen and dowling are CB's, and allen is washed up and won't be on the roster come september. and gregory is not the guaranteed upgrade you make him out to be.

scott is nothing right now and is another guy who could easily not be here by september. you have hope, but that's not reality

you are optimistic much more than realistic

The reality is that there was no Carter in the playoffs. You are the one who said the team at the end of the season. So sorry you don't get to count Carter.

The reality is that you can't say the O-Line is worse, you can say they might be worse if Light and Waters retire and I could just as easily say that full years of Vollmer and Cannon plus any improvement from Solder make it better. Again, you used the words 'end of season' and 'currently' and don't want to stick to either one in your analysis but I have the reality problem.

The reality is that the biggest flaw BY FAR on the Pats D last year was the safeties. I saw enough in 2 games that Ras I is worth a hundred Sergio Browns and Gregory is better than Ihedigbo any way you slice it. There is no hoping involved here. Gregory, Dowling, and Will Allen are all better players than James Ihedigbo. Sadly Sergio Brown is still on the team if you'd like to stick him out there ahead of any of those guys.

Do you get to count Anderson at DL and LB? Pick one. You originally grouped him at LB so I will keep him there. The DL is better with Fanane and the injured players returning (hopefully Carter being one of them eventually, but even if not, better than the DL at the end of the year).

As for Anderson, I liked him. And he was one of the most overpaid FA's this year. Again, Scott this year could be what Anderson was last year. I guess I just don't think Anderson was key to the defense. It seems you're just penciling him in for 10 sacks again when he had 8 and a half the 4 years before that. Which is 5 fewer than Scott had during that time frame and Scott did it in 3 years instead of 4.

Reality is also that the coach let BJGE walk without too much fuss. He is what he is. Dependable and replaceable. I believe Ridley is a more talented RB, based on what I saw. And I happen to also be a Vereen fan.

So based on your initial descriptions I would say OL is stronger right now. DB is stronger by any rational definition. DL is stronger unless you like Ellis and
Gerard Warren better than Pryor and Fanane.

LB is weaker until Scott/Cunnnigham/Markell Carter show anything but lets not act like Anderson was the 2nd coming.

RB may be slightly weaker today but who knows how they plan on using the 2 good fullbacks they picked up. I don't think it is but I will grant you it's possible.


I'll say one thing, this team in total is stronger than it was a few months ago and a hell of a lot stronger than it was on April 2nd 2011.

 

[AzPatsFan]

The thinking with the drafting of Dowling is that they probably could improve 2 positions, rather than just 1.

Dowling is a much better outside CB, with better measurables and a tendency to play much more physically than Arrington.

Arrington will definitely be the slot CB, since that is where he excels and can play best.

If Dowling can play like he did in the first 2 games of the season and show something, then both of those positions will be greatly improved.

As far as the safeties go, you should be concerned about them, since they were the biggest reason for the secondary's decline (and the CB decline) in general. The CB and S positions go hand in hand, and an upgrade at S will certainly allow for the CB play to improve.

I disagree. For half a year the Pats played with no major league Safeties at all, as Chung was unavailable, along with Barett. When Chung came back for a few games the results were very evident. Plus everyone discounts the conversion of Edelman to a FS. College QB conversion to FS is a common situation, and Edelman has the receivng hands for the INTs, sure wrapup tackling, and fine ST contributions to allow him to develop as a fine 3rd or 4th Safety. IMHO his first exposure there was very welcome.

 

[supafly]

I disagree. For half a year the Pats played with no major league Safeties at all, as Chung was unavailable, along with Barett. When Chung came back for a few games the results were very evident. Plus everyone discounts the conversion of Edelman to a FS. College QB conversion to FS is a common situation, and Edelman has the receivng hands for the INTs, sure wrapup tackling, and fine ST contributions to allow him to develop as a fine 3rd or 4th Safety. IMHO his first exposure there was very welcome.

What exactly do you disagree with? Because it sounds like we're both saying the exact same thing.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

With the perspective of watching what Bill Belichick has done, (and NOT done), in FA, I think Bill Belichick is revealing that he is really pretty high on his very young Defense. He seems to be adding strength to the Offense and expecting the Defense to improve with experience. In reality, he DOES HAVE a very young Defense, and there is lots of talent at every level.

He added only Gregory and Allen but he actually added Ras-I Dowling and Pat Chung too, two high picks, which he had for only a little portion of last season. So the secondary has already had a injection of returned talent, without the next Draft contributions. I always thought that over the top Safety play, or rather lack of it, was the source of blame for many of McCourty's "problems".

At LB he appears to have lost Mark Anderson, but he gets Cunningham back, added Trevor Scott, probably sees the return of Andre Carter. He also gets another year of development for Ninkovich and Spikes.

On the Defensive line he replaces lost Mike Wright with similar Fanene, gets an interior rusher in Mo Pryor back, hopefully sees further development of Love, Deadrick and Brace. Neither Wright nor Pryor were there for much of last season. Ellis is done and Warren may still be a Shadow Roster player, if Bill needs him.

If Belichick went into the Draft and added a Fanene, Pryor, Cunningham, Scott, Carter, Dowling, Gregory, Allen and Chung, the fans would be ecstatic. In effect, that is what has already happened.

Last season's Defense, despite the criticism, only allowed under 21 ppg. Allowing 17 ppg would put them in the Top Ten,and under 15 would make them a Top Three. That is less than 1 TD per game, allowed. Now add that list of talent, and what do you have?

It's hard to believe a 6.5 sack guy like Fanene could be signed at such a modest cost. Now if only Pryor could stay healthy.

Interior pressure is the key since that actually works against elite offenses.

 

[Huckleberry1]

you sure can say the OL is worse..........mankins has an issue with his knee, waters is a year older....they WILL be MUCH worse if light and waters retire. no OT depth (and given the fact that vollmer has been injured 2 of the 3 years he's been here, a full season is by no means a given)

you're right on carter (even though he was technically still part of the team), but they have lost anderson (as for DL or LB, he played both, so losing him is a subtraction on both....don't have to pick one)

so the pats let BJGE walk with too much fuss.....and that means they are better now because you say ridley is more talented (with a penchant for dropping the ball) and you like vereen? LOL.....reality

so far, outside of lloyd, every guy the pats picked up were let go or allowed to walk without too much fuss, so how good can they be (by your logic)

allen and dowling are CB's, and allen is washed up and won't be on the roster come september. and gregory is not the guaranteed upgrade you make him out to be.

scott is nothing right now and is another guy who could easily not be here by september. you have hope, but that's not reality

you are optimistic much more than realistic

And then if Brady has another sucky year, and Lloyd and Solder, and Welker, and Ridley all get hurt, and go on IR with Mayo and Chung, and Wilfork and Mesko, and Belichick geys really distracted by his girlfriend and his son gets a DWI, and the Dolphins and Jets and Bills all go undefeated.

When will Kraft finally get rfid of this crappy front office and coaching staff and end our misery.

Another horrible sucky year coming our way.

 

[Huckleberry1]

...or didn't want to spend the money needed to sign the good ones.

They are so frigging cheap. If they weren't we would have Suh, and Larry Fitzgerald, and Calivn Johnson, but nooooooooooooooo, instead Kraft has to hoard his money and force us to watch his crappy team every year. We deserve so much better.