Big News Masking Patriots Offseason Success

[Bostonian1962]

This has been a weird offseason to me. We've all been flooded with Manning, Manning and more Manning. We've been flooded with Tim Tebow to the Jets, and there has been non-stop Bounty-gate.

To me, in a normal offseason, we'd be hearing more about how well the Patriots have done. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the Free Agent winners don't exactly seem to do well the following season, but the Patriots have done well in a more subdued, and under the radar fashion, but regardless, not much has been said about it.

Cases in point:

The team has done a simply great job of improving things up and down the roster. By signing their own (Slater, White et al), and other (Cole) top notch special teamers, our special teams is better than that of the team that was within a play of winning the Super Bowl.

One of their weak points IMHO was the LDE position that Ellis was supposed to improve. Jonathon Fanene improves that position, even if he isn't an All Pro superstar. That position should be improved.

Brandon Lloyd should improve D. Branch's wide receiver position, and Stallworth and Gonzalez have the potential to make the depth off the hook.

Did we even have a 3rd TE last season. Daniel Fells was a starting TE for a playoff team, and will be our third best TE.

The team did not have a FB on the roster as good as either Larsen or Fiammetta. Another position improved. Granted we didn't use FBs for the most part, but two more good additions to the mix.

Trevor Scott "could" start for us, if he's fully healthy.

There is alot of work to go, and we all hope they hit pay dirt on every draft pick to help the defense and/or other areas. However, this has been a very quiet, but successful free agent period. The majority of these players are 30 or less on top of it all.

A Super Bowl team has gotten better in several areas, it's only March, and our team has 6 draft picks in the first four rounds.

Does anybody else feel like some rather high profile news has limited these facts? I'm actually good with that. P.S. - I read yesterday that based on last year's records, the Patriots have the 32nd hardest (read easiest) schedule in the NFL. No we didn't get the likes of Mario Williams, but how many areas did Buffalo improve?

Thoughts?

 

[TealSox]

On the surface, I thought along the same lines as yourself - insomuch that Patriots were fortifying their roster with mid-level talent from the free agent market. I agree that the signing of Jonathan Fanane should bolster that defensive line and that Gregory will provide some depth to the safety position. But (for the most part) many of these moves really propel this team to a higher level.

First of all, re-signing guys is important for continuity, but it doesn't make us better or worse IMO. (see Dan Connelly and Matt Slater)

Second, with the franchise tag on Welker, the Patriots needed to do something to address the long term success of the passing game - given Welker could very well be on a different team come next year. Enter Brandon Lloyd.

Follow that up with the fact that Deion Branch is showing age and "85" was a disappointment... Enter Stallworth and Gonzalez. Sure, this 'may' make the team better as it does give the team options going into the season (unlike last season with Taylor Price). Overall, these are gambles and not worth the bet.

Third, I look at the signing of Gallery. I like the signing, but if Brian Waters isn't coming back, does Gallery really improve the team (since he is just replacing Waters or however that pan outs)? Not to mention Light is sure to retire if you listen to the reports and Volmer had back issues.

Add to that, Solder isn't quite where I thought he would be. He got manhandled during the Super Bowl and was (only) 1 of the reasons the team failed to drive the ball late in the game. I do think that the signing of Fells will allow Solder to move to a more natural position. As I understand and saw it, Solder was in as a tight end fairly often and was effective as a blocker.

So in regards to the offensive line, I think it has potential, but at this point (albeit the offseason) it is a question mark.

In the end, I don't see how the team is better than last year... but I do see how the team is prepared for long term success.

 

[DefenseRules]

On the surface, I thought along the same lines as yourself - insomuch that Patriots were fortifying their roster with mid-level talent from the free agent market. I agree that the signing of Jonathan Fanane should bolster that defensive line and that Gregory will provide some depth to the safety position. But (for the most part) many of these moves really propel this team to a higher level.

First of all, re-signing guys is important for continuity, but it doesn't make us better or worse IMO. (see Dan Connelly and Matt Slater)

Second, with the franchise tag on Welker, the Patriots needed to do something to address the long term success of the passing game - given Welker could very well be on a different team come next year. Enter Brandon Lloyd.

Follow that up with the fact that Deion Branch is showing age and "85" was a disappointment... Enter Stallworth and Gonzalez. Sure, this 'may' make the team better as it does give the team options going into the season (unlike last season with Taylor Price). Overall, these are gambles and not worth the bet.

Third, I look at the signing of Gallery. I like the signing, but if Brian Waters isn't coming back, does Gallery really improve the team (since he is just replacing Waters or however that pan outs)? Not to mention Light is sure to retire if you listen to the reports and Volmer had back issues.

Add to that, Solder isn't quite where I thought he would be. He got manhandled during the Super Bowl and was (only) 1 of the reasons the team failed to drive the ball late in the game. I do think that the signing of Fells will allow Solder to move to a more natural position. As I understand and saw it, Solder was in as a tight end fairly often and was effective as a blocker.

So in regards to the offensive line, I think it has potential, but at this point (albeit the offseason) it is a question mark.

In the end, I don't see how the team is better than last year... but I do see how the team is prepared for long term success.

I agree with your assessment, especially the last sentence. I'm not ready to give an opinion on where I think the team is at this point. I do think that the players that they have signed will improve their overall depth. I thought that the depth was weak at certain positions last year. WR was the weakest, IMO. After Welker and Branch, who else produced at WR for them last year? Its' a good thing that Gronk and Hernandez stepped up. As of today, IMHO, they still have a lot of work to do, especially on defense. I'm still in wait and see mode.

 

[Daigle]

Excellent posts and good points from all of you so far. Although as some of you say, we might not have improved every area significantly. Lets see what kind of passrush we have next year for example...

I am also worried about the O-line and age of some of them. Like you say, if Waters retire, say Light too, then we have some holes. The guys coming in might not be better certainly but I see them as different pieces in the puzzle we are trying to do and they certain look nice when we pick em up, its however how they fit that determines the success.

Summary: The guys we have so far brought in are more depth than cutting edge so far. Although some might be better, Lloyd as one example. They look to fit the system and seem good in theory. We still have holes and the ammount of holes might be higher later in the offseason.

Sidenote: No matter what everyone says, the o-line needs atleast another draftpick and I bet BB is getting one more this draft, either first or second round. I say first round, WR second, maybe some safety in third if the value is there.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Excellent posts and good points from all of you so far. Although as some of you say, we might not have improved every area significantly. Lets see what kind of passrush we have next year for example...

I am also worried about the O-line and age of some of them. Like you say, if Waters retire, say Light too, then we have some holes. The guys coming in might not be better certainly but I see them as different pieces in the puzzle we are trying to do and they certain look nice when we pick em up, its however how they fit that determines the success.

Summary: The guys we have so far brought in are more depth than cutting edge so far. Although some might be better, Lloyd as one example. They look to fit the system and seem good in theory. We still have holes and the ammount of holes might be higher later in the offseason.

Sidenote: No matter what everyone says, the o-line needs atleast another draftpick and I bet BB is getting one more this draft, either first or second round. I say first round, WR second, maybe some safety in third if the value is there.

Good points, as we have a long way to go. I like what they've done so far, as we sit here in March. If I'm as upbeat post-draft, I'll feel alot better. Time will tell.

 

[nabwong]

On paper we've improved. But we have a new OC (for majority of the offensive players) and new players. We won't know how good this team is until the 2nd quarter of the season. Players have to absorb the new playbook and also adjust to new opponents.

Take a look at the eagles last year. Players also have off years. McCourty, Clay Matthews, Philip rivers.

 

[JackBauer]

I think a key point is that you have a lot of young guys who should get better.

I think assuming no regression and McCourty getting his act together, this team should be easily better and more balanced than last year's team.

 

[DarrylS]

Have felt for the past couple of years that this team is being rebuilt on the fly and before our eyes it is being designed to be great for the future as well as now.

We have freed up a lot of cap room, so do not believe that BB is done doing what he wants to do this year...

 

[BAM!]

I am in the middle right now. While I think they have improved some positions with adding good depth and a solid starter (Lloyd) I also think that they really haven't done enough to address the defensive issues. Hiopefully the later will be addressed successfully through the draft.

Corner was an issue and while I have hope Ras-I will improve that, there is no evidence to this point that he will. McCourty struggled so much last year he was moved to safety. The pass rush suffered a hit with Anderson leaving and while Ninko showed steady improvement all year long, a significant inury to Carter was another big blow.

The perceived improvement of the WR position is nice but that IMO but the passing offense wasn't an issue last year. The Pats were 2nd in the league in Passing offense. I thnk the loss of BJGE, at least for the beginning of the year, is significant as Ridley and Vereen are unproven. Ridley shows flashes of being good but his ball security issues are a problem.

The O-line is still a concern and if Light retires will be more of a concern to me.

I am not trying to be negative as there are a lot of things to be positive about. I just don't see how this team at this point is better than last years team. I do think their moves has set them up to be more flexible in the draft but think they need another 1st or 2nd round DB, OL, and DL talent.

 

[captain stone]

I am in complete, 100% agreement w/ everything in this post.

 

[jsull87]

This has been a weird offseason to me. We've all been flooded with Manning, Manning and more Manning. We've been flooded with Tim Tebow to the Jets, and there has been non-stop Bounty-gate.

To me, in a normal offseason, we'd be hearing more about how well the Patriots have done. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the Free Agent winners don't exactly seem to do well the following season, but the Patriots have done well in a more subdued, and under the radar fashion, but regardless, not much has been said about it.

Cases in point:

The team has done a simply great job of improving things up and down the roster. By signing their own (Slater, White et al), and other (Cole) top notch special teamers, our special teams is better than that of the team that was within a play of winning the Super Bowl.

One of their weak points IMHO was the LDE position that Ellis was supposed to improve. Jonathon Fanene improves that position, even if he isn't an All Pro superstar. That position should be improved.

Brandon Lloyd should improve D. Branch's wide receiver position, and Stallworth and Gonzalez have the potential to make the depth off the hook.

Did we even have a 3rd TE last season. Daniel Fells was a starting TE for a playoff team, and will be our third best TE.

The team did not have a FB on the roster as good as either Larsen or Fiammetta. Another position improved. Granted we didn't use FBs for the most part, but two more good additions to the mix.

Trevor Scott "could" start for us, if he's fully healthy.

There is alot of work to go, and we all hope they hit pay dirt on every draft pick to help the defense and/or other areas. However, this has been a very quiet, but successful free agent period. The majority of these players are 30 or less on top of it all.

A Super Bowl team has gotten better in several areas, it's only March, and our team has 6 draft picks in the first four rounds.

Does anybody else feel like some rather high profile news has limited these facts? I'm actually good with that. P.S. - I read yesterday that based on last year's records, the Patriots have the 32nd hardest (read easiest) schedule in the NFL. No we didn't get the likes of Mario Williams, but how many areas did Buffalo improve?

Thoughts?

First let me say i agree with you and there have been alot of positive good things about this off season.

The only negative for me is that we couldn't get Anderson back. I know the reasons e.g he was very well paid by Buffalo. But the loss of he and carter will be felt as that was 20 sacks worth of production last year between them... can someone like Scott step up? absolutely. All i am saying is we are significantly weaker at the OLB/DE position than last year. Our only known commodity is Ninko and maybe Cunningham if we go back to more of a base 3-4.

 

[mgteich]

Yup. Our one major step backwards is in the outside pass-rush. Last year we had Ninkovich, Carter and Anderson. As you said, this year, we have Ninkovich, Scott and Cunningham. Re-signing Carter would help a lot.

First let me say i agree with you and there have been alot of positive good things about this off season.

The only negative for me is that we couldn't get Anderson back. I know the reasons e.g he was very well paid by Buffalo. But the loss of he and carter will be felt as that was 20 sacks worth of production last year between them... can someone like Scott step up? absolutely. All i am saying is we are significantly weaker at the OLB/DE position than last year. Our only known commodity is Ninko and maybe Cunningham if we go back to more of a base 3-4.

 

[rookBoston]

The only negative for me is that we couldn't get Anderson back.

Well, if we'd re-signed Anderson, there's be no roster space for when BB drafts Nick Perry (27) and Andre Branch (31) and Shae McClellin (48) and Vinny Curry (63)... setting an NFL record for the most outside pass rushers ever drafted by a single in the first two rounds of the draft.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

No we didn't get the likes of Mario Williams, but how many areas did Buffalo improve?

Thoughts?

Buffalo got Mario Williams AND Mark Anderson.

They should now have a Giants-like defensive line, or at the very least a Top 5 DLINE.


That instantly upgrades their entire defense. Their secondary will look a lot better from those signings.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Buffalo got Mario Williams AND Mark Anderson.

They should now have a Giants-like defensive line, or at the very least a Top 5 DLINE.


That instantly upgrades their entire defense. Their secondary will look a lot better from those signings.

Assuming the two Williams do what they haven't done since 2009 and stay healthy, yes, they'll have a good line. They're still not versatile enough to raise the kind of hell that the Giants have on us. Ryan Fitzpatrick is still a turnover machine. He's turned the ball over what, like 4 times a game in our last three meetings?

The depth is certainly nice, but let's all wait until after the draft or even late July when we see how well the Rookies have gotten their bearings before judging the offseason. Savvy vets certainly trump oblivious 2nd year ST-ers. Even if their savvy is mediocrity, mediocrity is better than Sergio Brown.

 

[IllegalContact]

compared to the roster at the end of the season, the pats are currently better at 2 positions: WR and TE

RB - minus BGJE....weaker
OL - add gallery, could lose light and waters.....the same or weaker
QB - the same
DL - weaker
LB - the same or weaker depending on how you interpret the loss of mark anderson
DB - the same....I'm not buying into the steven gregory hype

the defense scares me....in a bad way

 

[Dutchmaster617]

This has been a weird offseason to me. We've all been flooded with Manning, Manning and more Manning. We've been flooded with Tim Tebow to the Jets, and there has been non-stop Bounty-gate.

To me, in a normal offseason, we'd be hearing more about how well the Patriots have done. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the Free Agent winners don't exactly seem to do well the following season, but the Patriots have done well in a more subdued, and under the radar fashion, but regardless, not much has been said about it.

Cases in point:

The team has done a simply great job of improving things up and down the roster. By signing their own (Slater, White et al), and other (Cole) top notch special teamers, our special teams is better than that of the team that was within a play of winning the Super Bowl.

One of their weak points IMHO was the LDE position that Ellis was supposed to improve. Jonathon Fanene improves that position, even if he isn't an All Pro superstar. That position should be improved.

Brandon Lloyd should improve D. Branch's wide receiver position, and Stallworth and Gonzalez have the potential to make the depth off the hook.

Did we even have a 3rd TE last season. Daniel Fells was a starting TE for a playoff team, and will be our third best TE.

The team did not have a FB on the roster as good as either Larsen or Fiammetta. Another position improved. Granted we didn't use FBs for the most part, but two more good additions to the mix.

Trevor Scott "could" start for us, if he's fully healthy.

There is alot of work to go, and we all hope they hit pay dirt on every draft pick to help the defense and/or other areas. However, this has been a very quiet, but successful free agent period. The majority of these players are 30 or less on top of it all.

A Super Bowl team has gotten better in several areas, it's only March, and our team has 6 draft picks in the first four rounds.

Does anybody else feel like some rather high profile news has limited these facts? I'm actually good with that. P.S. - I read yesterday that based on last year's records, the Patriots have the 32nd hardest (read easiest) schedule in the NFL. No we didn't get the likes of Mario Williams, but how many areas did Buffalo improve?

Thoughts?

How good the Pats are doing? They just lost another SB to another overrated Giants team. It has been this way for years but now more than ever is the time the Pats have to earn praise not be giving it.

I love talking up the Pats and downing other teams but the media has no reasons to be pro NE, it would confirm the east coast bias when they haven't won since 04.

 

[jsull87]

compared to the roster at the end of the season, the pats are currently better at 2 positions: WR and TE

RB - minus BGJE....weaker
OL - add gallery, could lose light and waters.....the same or weaker
QB - the same
DL - weaker
LB - the same or weaker depending on how you interpret the loss of mark anderson
DB - the same....I'm not buying into the steven gregory hype

the defense scares me....in a bad way

OL- Could lose isn't the same as lost... so really it's undecided not the same or weaker. Light and Waters stay and we are stronger than last year.

How is the DL Weaker? we added a the DL from the Bengals. How are we weaker? and we should be getting Pryor back from injury. Don't see how this could be anything but stronger.

DB Same or stronger but this is un-judgeable at this stage. An argument for stronger could be made as Will Allen apparently had alot of success in the slot last year.

OLB and RB are definitely weaker after FA. RB will be judged with the progression of Vereen and Ridley. OLB/DE as i mentioned above, losing 2 10 sack guys is clearly a weaker position.

 

[Deus Irae]

How good the Pats are doing? They just lost another SB to another overrated Giants team. It has been this way for years but now more than ever is the time the Pats have to earn praise not be giving it.

I love talking up the Pats and downing other teams but the media has no reasons to be pro NE, it would confirm the east coast bias when they haven't won since 04.

Excellent point. Since the start of 2005, lots of NFL teams have compiled 86-26 records, gone to 3 AFCCGs and 2 SBs, and had an undefeated regular season....

 

[captain stone]

Well, if we'd re-signed Anderson, there's be no roster space for when BB drafts Nick Perry (27) and Andre Branch (31) and Shae McClellin (48) and Vinny Curry (63)... setting an NFL record for the most outside pass rushers ever drafted by a single in the first two rounds of the draft.

I could live very well with that draft, and that's no April Fool.