Schefter: Ochocinco will stay with Patriots

[RIpats88]

Bess? Did I miss someone?

actually, its Britt Davis....Wide Receiver promoted from the practice squad

 

[Sicilian]

actually, its Britt Davis....Wide Receiver promoted from the practice squad

Ah, ok. I went back looking for the thread where we traded for Davone Bess, haha.

 

[ATippett56]

Why would Stallworth who caught 2 passes in 2010 and 22 in 2011, have a better chance of making the team than Gonzalez or even 85? Stalworth has barely been an NFL receiver since leaving here 4 years ago, catching a total of 41 passes. I think you are expecting the player he was in 07, and thats just not who he is.
Agreed that Gonzalez has an injury history, but if he is healthy he is a very good WR. He is either hurt or on the roster, he won't be cut healthy, unless the injuries have just taken away his speed and quickness, but I doubt BB signs him if that were the case.

There is no reason you couldn't have 6 WRs, making the offensive allotment 25. Then you have 25 O 25 D and 3 s/ts.

Based upon the 2011 NFL Season:

Stallworth 22 receptions > Johnson 15 receptions
Stallworth 22 receptions > Gonzalez 0 receptions

Chad Johnson - 34 years old
Donte Stallworth - 31 years old

As for special teams, three rosters spots need to be allotted for the long snapper, punter, place kicker in addition to Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater, Marquice Cole, Tracy White.

 

[patfanken]

From my perspective there are 2 outspoken groups about 85: Those that just don't like the guy, and those that do like him.
Both have pretty heavily skewed assessments of him IMO.
Being entirely unbiased about him, I am of course, in the middle of the outspoken factions.
I think it is ridiculous to say he was too lazy or stupid to learn the playbook. If it were either, he would have been gone a long time ago. That's just the way this team operates.
We all (or most of us) clearly understand that the Patriot passing game revolves around routes being dictated by reading the coverage, and I do not understand how anyone would be surprised that a 10+ year very successful veteran who never had to do it at any point in his career may struggle doing so.
There is no question, IMO, that the success 85 had in Cincy included being in a system that revolved around designing, calling, and executing plays to use his strengths to get him open. When he becomes a ''normal WR' the equation changes.
Is it possible that he learns a part of the game that came hard to him in his first year? Sure. Is there any reason to believe he can be as productive here as he was in Cincy? Not really, unless we redesign our offense to highlight him, and set up route groupings that are designed to free him up. We simply have too many better weapons than 85 to use them as decoy or complementary pieces for 85.
Does he have the skills to be a small piece of the receiving corps? I'd say BB must feel he does, providing he gains a better understanding of what he is seeing in coverage.

This is all I've ever asked in regard to Chad. I was as disappointed as anyone else how his season turned out. But I can at least understand how it came about, and have reasonable expectations that this one MIGHT improve. There was NEVER a need to attack the man on a personal basis. He's a guy who's caught over 11,000 yds of passes in the NFL. He doesn't have to prove anything to a few internet tough guys who need anger management classes.

A point I have made on several occasions that has gone relatively unnoticed is that regardless of who wins those last 3 WR slots, the best of them, barring injury, is STILL going to be just the 5th receiver option for Brady.most of the time. The point being that for all the emotion and anger we've expended on this topic, we are still just talking about little more than quality depth at WR position. The team isn't going to rise OR fall when the final names are revealed.

That being said, I can't help myself from making my own prediction of how an why it will work out the way I say it will

The fab 4

1. Welker - doing what he does
2. Hernandez - the ultimate hybrid receiver - all over the place
3. Lloyd - Takes Branches looks - upgraded our outside the hash threat
4. Gronk - the best traditional 2 way TE in the league

5. Edelman - backs up Welker and all the other things he does
6. Underwood - speed on the outside - beats out Stallworth and Branch because he's younger, has upside, and most importantly he plays STs
7. Johnson - He provides some outside threat opposite Lloyd, and back up in case of injury to Lloyd
8 Fells - #3 TE

JMHO

 

[patsfan13]

Due to his injuries in the recent past, Gonzalez seems like a long shot to make the team.

2012 New England Patriots Offense (24 proposed roster spots)

3 - QB
4 - RB
3 - TE
9 - OL
5 - WR

With regard to the five available roster spots at the wide receiver position:

Welker
Lloyd
Branch
Stallworth
Edelman/Gonzalez/Johnson/Underwood

Matthew Slater would be strictly utilized for special teams.

I agree with this approach, I think we will carry 26 on the D this year (10 DB, 8 LB & 8 DL).


I would change the QB slot to 2, my assumption is that Mallett with a full season + a full offseason will surpass Hoyer on the depth chart, feature Hoyer in preseason and if someone loses a QB look for a trade opportunity.

This would leave 6 for WR, my take:

Lloyd & Welker locks

Eldleman & Slater locks due to versatility and ST's

So for the other 2 slots: Branch, Stallworth, Ocho, Gonzalez, Underwood, Draft pick

The competiton in camp for those 2 slots will be firce. My initial instinct, Branch and Stallowrth.

 

[mgteich]

Every year, posters want to cut the special teamers. IMHO, they are starters and very important to the success of the team. I agree with your list of the most likely players to fill those positions this year. As in any other position, these players can be beaten out or upgraded. We also undervalue utility players, players who can play several positions. Edelman has been a backup slot receiver, our best nickel back, emergency receiver, punt returner, all depending on the needs of the week. He is making this team.

We often divide the roster for convenience (the number can vary, of course)
OFFENSE 25
DEFENSE 25 7 DL, 9 LB, 9 DB
SPECIALISTS 3

IMHO, this is just not right. There should be a category for Special Teams. The four players you indicate will have many, many more reps than the #9 OL, #3 QB, #5 WR, #3 TE, #7 DL, #5 OLB, #4 CB, #4 S and the #9 DB. I would argue that the four top STer's are more important to the team than any of the listed NINE positions.

So, IMHO, we have 44 "critical" traditional roster spots (offense, defense and specialists), 4 ST positions, and 5 positions that go to the 5 players who will add the most to the 48 man roster.

Obviously, a top STer could also provide depth at a position, but this would be a bonus. If a player is our top gunner, then his other roles are much less important.

The final five could include developmental players not likely to contribute this year. Most often, these players provide depth at various positions. For example, I have listed 3 corners and 3 safeties as critical positions. I believe that. These 6 will get almost all the reps. However, we also need depth. I would note that the 6 is somewhat of an illusion. Cole and Edelman could be considered depth at defensive back.

A DIFFERENT ROSTER LOOK
OFFENSE (21)
DEFENSE (20)
SPECIALISTS (3)
SPECIAL TEAMERS (4)
FINAL FIVE (5) These could be at any position.
These spots are often called the bottom of the roster.

BOTTOM LINE
1) Special teamers are very important.
2) The last five roster spots could go to players at almost any position.

Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater, Marquice Cole, Tracy White could be designated as special teams players. Marquice Cole provides flexibility since he has shown the ability to play cornerback for the New York Jets. By keeping another wide receiver on the roster, the New England Patriots defense will be allotted one less roster spot. A defensive player, such as Ron Brace, may end up a roster casualty.

 

[ATippett56]

I agree with this approach, I think we will carry 26 on the D this year (10 DB, 8 LB & 8 DL).

I think the New England Patriots will carry 25 on the defense during the 2012 NFL Season:

DL - 7
LB - 8
DB -10

I would change the QB slot to 2, my assumption is that Mallett with a full season + a full offseason will surpass Hoyer on the depth chart, feature Hoyer in preseason and if someone loses a QB look for a trade opportunity.

Based on the quarterback fiasco in Indianapolis last season, I'm not as comfortable with Mallett as you are.

This would leave 6 for WR, my take:

Lloyd & Welker locks

Eldleman & Slater locks due to versatility and ST's

So for the other 2 slots: Branch, Stallworth, Ocho, Gonzalez, Underwood, Draft pick

The competiton in camp for those 2 slots will be fierce. My initial instinct, Branch and Stallworth.

Barring injury prior to the start of the regular season, Branch and Stallworth are my front-runners to make the final 53.

Branch versus Gonzalez
Stallworth versus Johnson

 

[Triumph]

From my perspective there are 2 outspoken groups about 85: Those that just don't like the guy, and those that do like him.
Both have pretty heavily skewed assessments of him IMO.

Totally disagree.

HE has had every opportunity to excel on this team.

Being entirely unbiased about him, I am of course, in the middle of the outspoken factions.
I think it is ridiculous to say he was too lazy or stupid to learn the playbook. If it were either, he would have been gone a long time ago. That's just the way this team operates.

No, not really.

The Pats paid him all that money. It appears the Pats are exhuasting every last option before they cut him loose. They cannot be all that enamored with him either. Gonzalez, Stallworth were signed. Both players can think on their feet, Stallworth knows the offense and Gonzalez cant be a dim bulb after being in the Colts passing offense. It remains to seen if OC can think on his feet.

We all (or most of us) clearly understand that the Patriot passing game revolves around routes being dictated by reading the coverage, and I do not understand how anyone would be surprised that a 10+ year very successful veteran who never had to do it at any point in his career may struggle doing so.

Oh please.

The concept has been around for years. He had to be told where to line up in the SB. Enough excuses.

There is no question, IMO, that the success 85 had in Cincy included being in a system that revolved around designing, calling, and executing plays to use his strengths to get him open. When he becomes a ''normal WR' the equation changes.
Is it possible that he learns a part of the game that came hard to him in his first year? Sure. Is there any reason to believe he can be as productive here as he was in Cincy? Not really, unless we redesign our offense to highlight him, and set up route groupings that are designed to free him up. We simply have too many better weapons than 85 to use them as decoy or complementary pieces for 85.
Does he have the skills to be a small piece of the receiving corps? I'd say BB must feel he does, providing he gains a better understanding of what he is seeing in coverage.

The juice isnt worth the squeeze. Turn the page as BB says.

 

[Triumph]

Why would Stallworth who caught 2 passes in 2010 and 22 in 2011, have a better chance of making the team than Gonzalez or even 85?

Stallworth caught 5 more passes than Chad Johnson last year.

And, who was the Redskins QB again?

 

[Triumph]

Wow, so you have evaluated every first and second round pick BB has ever made and would have taken less than 4 guys who didn't work out long term? Wow. I am sure if you put that much work into your research and evaluation, you must have posted who you would have taken somewhere right?
I'd love to see your choices.

No, I didnt. Im not paid millions to do so. I figured the NE scouting department had watched hours of film on every player and took into consideration the talent level of the opposition before they committed to spending a high draft pick.

But, I will always call it the way I see it and I will never be an oblivious kool aid drinker beleiving that Bill Belichick can do no wrong. Terrible drafts set this team back just like great drafts have won them Championships and have the team heading in the right direction.

 

[Ring 6]

No, I didnt. Im not paid millions to do so. I figured the NE scouting department had watched hours of film on every player and took into consideration the talent level of the opposition before they committed to spending a high draft pick.

But, I will always call it the way I see it and I will never be an oblivious kool aid drinker beleiving that Bill Belichick can do no wrong. Terrible drafts set this team back just like great drafts have won them Championships and have the team heading in the right direction.

Kind of a silly answer when my comment related to you answering YES in response to

Do any of you people really think you know more about evaluatiing whether a player will contribute to the team more than BB does?

You kind of lose credibility when you make comments such as that.

 

[Ring 6]

Stallworth caught 5 more passes than Chad Johnson last year.

And, who was the Redskins QB again?

And who were the 3 receivers ahead of him catching 291 passes for 3800 yards and 36 TDs?

 

[Ring 6]

Totally disagree.

HE has had every opportunity to excel on this team.



No, not really.

The Pats paid him all that money. It appears the Pats are exhuasting every last option before they cut him loose. They cannot be all that enamored with him either. Gonzalez, Stallworth were signed. Both players can think on their feet, Stallworth knows the offense and Gonzalez cant be a dim bulb after being in the Colts passing offense. It remains to seen if OC can think on his feet.



Oh please.

The concept has been around for years. He had to be told where to line up in the SB. Enough excuses.



The juice isnt worth the squeeze. Turn the page as BB says.

Clearly you fall into the biased by dislike half.

 

[ATippett56]

BOTTOM LINE
1) Special teamers are very important.
2) The last five roster spots could go to players at almost any position.

2012 New England Patriots roster (speculative)

QB - 3 Brady, Hoyer, Mallett
RB - 4 Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead, Polite/Larsen
TE - 3 Gronkowski, Hernandez, Fells
OL - 9 Light, Vollmer, Solder, Cannon, Waters, Mankins, Gallery, Connolly, Wendell
WR - 6 Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Stallworth, Edelman, Slater

DL - 7 Wilfork, Deaderick, Love, Fanene, Pryor, Brace, 2012 NFL Draft Pick
LB - 8 Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher, White/Koutouvides, Ninkovich, Cunningham, Scott, 2012 NFL Draft Pick
CB - 6 McCourty, Dowling, Arrington, Moore, Allen, Cole
S - 4 Chung, Barrett, Gregory, 2012 Draft Pick

P - Mesko
PK - Gostkowski
LS - Aiken

New England Patriots - 2012 Team Roster - Rotoworld.com Fantasy Sports

At first glance, the weakest positions currently on the New England Patriots roster are the 3-4 defensive ends, the 3-4 outside linebackers, and safety.

 

[pork3]

At first glance, the weakest positions currently on the New England Patriots roster are the 3-4 defensive ends, the 3-4 outside linebackers, and safety.

What's new there.
I'd rather they just draft defense entirely with the hopes that they prove valuable to the team unlike the following assortment of characters we've drafted over the years:

Jermaine Cunningham/Ron Brace/Terrence Wheatley/Shawn Crable/Jonathan Wilhite

Cheers.

-Jamman

 

[Triumph]

Clearly you fall into the biased by dislike half.

Youve made enough excuses to drive the Chad Johnson band wagon.

 

[Triumph]

And who were the 3 receivers ahead of him catching 291 passes for 3800 yards and 36 TDs?

Stallworth did more than Chad Johnson on a bad team with a JAG at QB.

He may have made the difference in the Super Bowl. Johnson certainly didnt.

 

[Sciz]

Stallworth did more than Chad Johnson on a bad team with a JAG at QB.

He may have made the difference in the Super Bowl. Johnson certainly didnt.

Bad team = More opportunities

 

[Triumph]

Kind of a silly answer when my comment related to you answering YES in response to



You kind of lose credibility when you make comments such as that.

I never proclaimed that Maroney was the #1 RB on this team.

Somebody else has credibility problems.

 

[Triumph]

Bad team = More opportunities

Rex Grossman = Bad QB.