Brandon Lloyd meeting with 49ers: Patriots are gonna blow it

[PatsFan2]

Here's the thing with a Mike Williams type receiver. Yes, he will "take the top off the defense" and "create underneath space". It will work the nuts against upper-mid tier defenses and lower. The issue is that really good defenses will always limit really good offenses. They will take away what you do really well and force you to adapt. Since the advent of the modern passing game, deep receivers have been consistently overvalued. They do make spectacular plays and are for lack of a better term intimidating. They will open things up against all but the best defenses. However, when you have an outside receiver who really just does deep defenses will take him away. It will be accomplished by either rush or really good coverage, but it is not an issue of "if" but of "when". It is much harder to consistently defend adaptability than it is to consistently defend awe-inspiring athleticism. What it comes down to in low scoring games is having a player that can execute a more diverse compliment of routes as it will enable you to make that one critical drive that those games come down to. That is our entire conversation for this team in a nutshell. They already will win the vast majority of games, but when competing against a defense that is going to dramatically slow you your ability to counterpunch is exponentially more important.

Jay i understand what you are saying but a Rookie IMPACT WR like Terry Glenn ain't coming through that door it is what it is. Ask not what we can do for Mike Wallace but what he can do for us.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

My biggest problem with Wallace is I don't see him doing enough of what the Pats do on offense to really fit. Sure he is a deep threat and he can stretch the field, but if that's all he can do he won't get on the field at all. A huge amount of Wallace's production is on deep, long developing plays, and he is especially effective when Big Ben rolls out and throws deep. The Pats don't do that. Its still a dink and dunk offense, with a lot of short, quick throws from Brady in the pocket. I just don't see that stuff from Wallace. If he can't be productive in this part of the offense, he won't get on the field and Brady certainly won't throw to him. While we always talk about the complexity of the scheme, I think the bigger issue is getting on the same page with Brady and gaining his trust. You bring a guy in that doesn't really do what this offense is built around and Brady will just ignore him, even if he is wide open. He clearly didn't trust Ocho, and rarely got the ball to him, even when he was open. I think this is the reason why Lloyd's style of play fits much better (although he looks to cost too much as well). He is a well rounded WR all over the field, that has the ability to be a deep threat.

You would think 2007 was ages ago, Brady can throw it deep all you need is to give him someone who isn't halfway retired. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees have made use of deep threat guys without scrambling, it is silly to say Wallace won't work without Ben, an average QB with half the brain and skill of Tom.

 

[shmessy]

Regarding Super Bowls:

When was the last time we won one? Oh yeah, it's been a while.

You're right, Einstein.

Guess we just didn't have the onfield talent in 2007.

 

[IllegalContact]

I wouldn't necessarily mind that on paper but it would kill their cap and I believe the Ravens would be able to match the offer unless it was insane.

Gaffney and Santana Moss may be cut. We know what Gaffney can do and if S. Moss is still fast, he might be a good/cheaper deep threat option.

Ideally I'd like the Pats to beef up the DL, re-sign Connolly and draft a Center.

well......the idea would work either way......wallace and webb would be matched, taking that $$ out of both teams cap space. but both guys are young, and a good chunk of the money can be put off until the cap goes way up.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Regarding Super Bowls:

You're right, Einstein.

Guess we just didn't have the onfield talent in 2007.

Not enough to get the job done, there were deficiencies which eventually became emploited. We are deficient at WR now, and the opportunity to address them is slipping away.

 

[jays52]

Jay i understand what you are saying but a Rookie IMPACT WR like Terry Glenn ain't coming through that door it is what it is. Ask not what we can do for Mike Wallace but what he can do for us.

Oh no doubt. I'm just speaking in the context of a Brandon Lloyd type vs a Mike Wallace type. I think the former is more valuable not over the duration of a season but in that critical drive that will need to happen in order to win a championship.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

All of this hand wringing over Brandon Lloyd? Yeah, most of the WR talent is off the FA board now but so what? BB will find the next Wallace in the draft.

This organization is peerless when it comes to finding quality WR talent in the draft.

 

[Jimke]

Could be that the Pats told Lloyd to go see what he can get in the market and if the numbers aren't too high, they'll match/come close to it.

Either way, Ocho should have a better year next year.

The last time the Patriots tried this they lost Deon Branch.

 

[Steve102]

All of this hand wringing over Brandon Lloyd? Yeah, most of the WR talent is off the FA board now but so what? BB will find the next Wallace in the draft.

This organization is peerless when it comes to finding quality WR talent in the draft.

say what? Am I missing the sarcasm?

 

[JackBauer]

Not enough to get the job done, there were deficiencies which eventually became emploited. We are deficient at WR now, and the opportunity to address them is slipping away.

We had plenty of talent to get the job done.

 

[Wilfork#75]

You would think 2007 was ages ago, Brady can throw it deep all you need is to give him someone who isn't halfway retired. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees have made use of deep threat guys without scrambling, it is silly to say Wallace won't work without Ben, an average QB with half the brain and skill of Tom.

Peyton and Brees also run very different systems, where they can plug WR's in and still run effectively. You certainly can't say that about the Pats. Whether that's because of the complexity of this system or because Brady has trust issues, its a real issue. A guy that just runs deep won't work here. And lets not compare Mike Wallace to Randy Moss. Moss was a great deep threat in 2007, and he had/did things that Wallace can't do. Moss not only had the speed, but also the height, physicality, blocking ability and route diversity to fit well in this offense. He also only cost a 4th round pick and was a lot cheaper than what Wallace will be. The problem with Wallace isn't about the deep routes, its about the other routes we don't know if he can run when he isn't going deep.

 

[Snake Eyes]

We had plenty of talent to get the job done.

Maroney couldnt break arm tackles, if he could the SB would have been very different. The O-line depth was also insufficient. They also couldnt recover once Colvin went down.

The fact remains that the team is paper thin at WR and nothing is being done to correct it. They struck gold getting a GOAT for a 6th round pick and they're giving him crap WRs to throw to.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

We had plenty of talent to get the job done.

No TEs in 07, now no WRs. One more SB with both and we come out on top.

 

[Nordberg]

Next year is going to be more of the same. Pats are going to be one of the top scoring teams in the league. They will go 12-4, win the division. Then they will run into a team that "clogs" the short middle of the field with their freed up safties....were Wes and the tights run their routes. Brady will then have know where to go with the ball.

Sick of this *****

 

[JackBauer]

No TEs in 07, now no WRs. One more SB with both and we come out on top.

It has significantly more to do with execution and luck, or a respective lack thereof, than it does with talent.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Peyton and Brees also run very different systems, where they can plug WR's in and still run effectively. You certainly can't say that about the Pats. Whether that's because of the complexity of this system or because Brady has trust issues, its a real issue. A guy that just runs deep won't work here. And lets not compare Mike Wallace to Randy Moss. Moss was a great deep threat in 2007, and he had/did things that Wallace can't do. Moss not only had the speed, but also the height, physicality, blocking ability and route diversity to fit well in this offense. He also only cost a 4th round pick and was a lot cheaper than what Wallace will be. The problem with Wallace isn't about the deep routes, its about the other routes we don't know if he can run when he isn't going deep.

But we have Welker who will catch a 100 short ones, Hernandez is good for 50+ and so is Gronk. We only need him for deep passes. The money issue I can see and obviously its not my money but Brady is retiring in a few years, you can save money but it will hold back an amazing career.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Next year is going to be more of the same. Pats are going to be one of the top scoring teams in the league. They will go 12-4, win the division. Then they will run into a team that "clogs" the short middle of the field with their freed up safties....were Wes and the tights run their routes. Brady will then have know where to go with the ball.

Sick of this *****

C'mon, you have to admit watching the same season over and over again is kind of fun, right?

 

[JackBauer]

The fact remains that the team is paper thin at WR and nothing is being done to correct it. They struck gold getting a GOAT for a 6th round pick and they're giving him crap WRs to throw to.

......................it's the second day of free agency.

 

[JackBauer]

C'mon, you have to admit watching the same season over and over again is kind of fun, right?

Yeah, watching this team make the playoffs every year is a real drag.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

......................it's the second day of free agency.

Actually not even close to 24 hours yet

Pathetic