Huge News: Redskins trade with Rams, will have #2 pick in draft

[FredFromDartmouth]

Synder is legitimate proof that fantasy football owners all over the country cannot build a championship caliber roster.

What I want to now is how idiots such as Synder got so much money? I have to assume that he sued his way to the top....

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Addendum - did I say Dan Snyder jinx?

I kind of meant "kiss of death."

This guy's seal of approval is the equivalent of the cover of SI, the cover of Madden, and the curse of the Bambino all mixed together with maybe a curse of the Mummy drizzled over it, and that Mayan 2012 prophecy for dessert.

But I still kind of like RG III.

 

[Ring 6]

I saw his interview w/Mooch on NFLN last week and dang he seemed promising - drew up the play Mooch drew up, didn't screw up anything but the name of the play LOL... every O in the right place.

It's too bad about this deal. Dan Snyder's seal of approval is the kiss of death.

I was in the National Press Building in 98 when there was a bomb threat at an egyptian publication's Washington bureau.

We got evacuated out of the building. Then that night on the news I saw the report on the incident...

"The package was taken to RFK Stadium," the report began, and I had to finish the sentence, "Thereby ending its career."

RIP, RGIII.

Okay seriously -- I REALLY like this kid, despite the Dan Snyder jinx.

But there is just such a long list of QBs that had analysts and draftniks signing their praises that got drafted as 'can't miss' 'franchise QBs' that failed miserably.
Alex Smith was better than Aaron Rodgers, and too smart to fail.
Tim Couch was more NFL ready than anyone in years.
Mark Sanchez was drafted #5 after a trade up and Trent Dilfer called him a born leader and the "Alpha Male"
Jemarcus Russell was a consensus must take #1 pick.
There was close to a 50/50 split on Peyton and Leaf (as well as Bledsoe and Mirer) and I think if Mannings father wasn't Archie the consensus would have been in Leafs corner due to size and arm strength.
Matt Leinhart would have gone #1 if he came out as a Jr.
David Carr was the 1st pick. Joey Harrington 3rd, Akili Smith 3rd.

There is as good a chance that he will never make it as there is that he will be a top 10 QB in the league.

 

[Banjo]

Remember, Redskins beat the Giants twice last year and always gave the Cowboys a hard time. They weren't a terrible team. They drafted a good defense. A guy like RG3 is just what they need to push them over the edge. Give him a good WR and improve the line a bit and he could easily have a Cam Newton-like rookie season.

Looking at their schedule, I'm thinking they could split the division games and win against the non-playoff teams. Wins in bold

Home games: New York Giants, Philadelphia, Dallas, Atlanta, Carolina, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Minnesota

Away games: New York Giants, Philadelphia, Dallas, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, St. Louis

That would leave them at 8-8. Not great, but then again that's where Dallas and Philly ended up too. It would certainly an improvement over 5-11 & 6-10 and it'd be something to build on.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Jury's still out in my eyes... after all, this time round the redskins have shanny in charge...

But then again, they've had the world's greatest college coach, their own last super bowl coach, whatever...

I've been living down here so long I started out hating the skins, while I was the only pats fan in town... then I sort of felt sorry for them... now I can't tell whether I want them to keep failing to continue to prove the Snyder point, or to root for something to work, just to show that no owner is so horrible that a team is eliminated on opening day.

But my gut says "nahhh." You have to understand what it's like here: every year there's another free agent savior, or another can't miss coach. You just can't point to something that's supposed to fix the skins and have anybody buy in. They hope, sure... but everyone in this town has a curse for Dan Snyder ready to let loose by week 10 of any given year.

 

[mgteich]

I would remind folks that two of the firsts are future picks. A 2013 first is generally considered equal to a 2012 2nd. A 2014 1st is generally equal to a 2012 3rd.

WASH trades the equivalent of a 2012 1st, 2nd, 2nd and 3rd.
Yes, I would say that it is two much. But it is not outrageous for a franchise quarterback on a rookie pay scale.

CLE offered 2 2012 1sts and a future 1st.

This was a bidding war.
===============

BTW, Cam Newton was clearly worth this compensation, especially with the rookie pay scale. Of course, he is now a proven commodity.

If RGIII is close to the quality of cam Newton, this will be a great trade for WASH. Without a top QB, WASH has almost no chance in their division, projecting to 4th. With a top QB, WASH has a chance.

 

[EJ Blitz]

I love RG3, and I think that it was worth it for the Redskins to give up that much for. They needed a franchise QB in a division filled with good to great QBs. However, I feel like the 2014 1st rounder was a bit of a stretch. I think that they maybe could have dissolved that into maybe a 2nd and 3rd rounder, but they were in a bidding war and maybe got scared.

That being said, if the Pats pulled off something crazy like this I'd laugh, walk into my basement, turn off the lights and eat my shoes.

 

[Ring 6]

I would remind folks that two of the firsts are future picks. A 2013 first is generally considered equal to a 2012 2nd. A 2014 1st is generally equal to a 2012 3rd.

In some ways yes, but in other ways no.
Trading next years 1st for this years 2nd to get a player you want works if that player is very important to you. The 2 this year = 1 next year is because you are getting something now for something you can't use until later. Just as if I give you $100 today, you need to give me back $105 next year because I sacrifced having the money if I needed it. (I'm ignoring the complication of inflation due to relevance) But $105 is better than $100, and if I don't need the $100 I come out better.
The same with the pick. If I trade all my 2s for next year 1s year in and year out, I end up with better players.
From the standpoint of the Rams and rebuilding over a period of time, it is much better to get 3 consecutive ones than a 1, 2, and 3 now, because 3 years from now you end up with better players.
Put it this way. Pick a 2nd rounder from 2011 that worked out just as expected. Do you think anyone would trade a 1 this year for that guy? Of course not.

WASH trades the equivalent of a 2012 1st, 2nd, 2nd and 3rd.
Yes, I would say that it is two much. But it is not outrageous for a franchise quarterback on a rookie pay scale.

CLE offered 2 2012 1sts and a future 1st.

This was a bidding war.
===============

BTW, Cam Newton was clearly worth this compensation, especially with the rookie pay scale. Of course, he is now a proven commodity.

Wait, he was clearly worth Julio Jones (the 6th pick) PLUS Andy Dalton (the QB they could have taken in the 2nd) PLUS a high 1st this year and another first next year? Really?

If RGIII is close to the quality of cam Newton, this will be a great trade for WASH. Without a top QB, WASH has almost no chance in their division, projecting to 4th. With a top QB, WASH has a chance.

They have no chance this year with a rookie QB, and their chances to get better were dealt a huge blow by this trade. They could have kept their picks and signed a number of FA QBs who are likely to be better this year than Griffin.

 

[Deus Irae]

I would remind folks that two of the firsts are future picks. A 2013 first is generally considered equal to a 2012 2nd. A 2014 1st is generally equal to a 2012 3rd.

WASH trades the equivalent of a 2012 1st, 2nd, 2nd and 3rd.
Yes, I would say that it is two much. But it is not outrageous for a franchise quarterback on a rookie pay scale.

CLE offered 2 2012 1sts and a future 1st.

This was a bidding war.
===============

BTW, Cam Newton was clearly worth this compensation, especially with the rookie pay scale. Of course, he is now a proven commodity.

If RGIII is close to the quality of cam Newton, this will be a great trade for WASH. Without a top QB, WASH has almost no chance in their division, projecting to 4th. With a top QB, WASH has a chance.

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are worth 3 #1s and a #2. Is Phillip Rivers worth that much?

 

[mgteich]

IMHO, yes, If the 1sts are spread over three years. However, note that draftees are paid on a rookie scale and are worth less than these proven top stars.

Cam Newton would be worth this deal in a heartbeat.

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are worth 3 #1s and a #2. Is Phillip Rivers worth that much?

 

[Deus Irae]

IMHO, yes, If the 1sts are spread over three years. However, note that draftees are paid on a rookie scale and are worth less than these proven top stars.

Cam Newton would be worth this deal in a heartbeat.

Well, here's where we part company. I don't think Rivers is worth it. It's too soon to say Newton is, or isn't. He certainly wasn't last year.


Just my $.02

 

[RobertWeathers]

You think having Cam Newton over:
-Singing a FA
-Drafting the next best guy
-Drafting the best guy next year
-Developing what you have

is worth 3 1s and a 2?
Really?

Andy, you are a smart guy. You need to see the big picture here. The 'Skins STINK and have stunk for a decade. They have no identity. They have no character. The have no Pro-Bowl talent. They are overshadowed every year by the Iggles, 'Boys and Giants. They are simply not competitive. The have handed out the most $$$ in FA than any team. They do not have any QB's to develop. If in 2012 they can develop RGIII and he shows he is a perennial ProBowler and invigorate that franchise and fan base in the process, it'll be well worth it.

How many teams would rather have Cam Newton in 2012 than the QB they have, and would give up 3 1s for that right?

I think the answer will surprise you. By my count if CN has a better year in 2012, 20 or so NFL teams would take him over their current NFL QB in a heartbeat. It's a QBs league.

 

[RobertWeathers]

What have you been reading? Luck is widely considered the best prospect in a generation.
Before a good 2011 season Griffin wasn't even on the radar. Do we have to remind ourselves of the trackrecord of QBs who jumped way up on the strength of one good season?
That isn't in the same area code as a tossup.

I thought this article was very interesting.

Andrew Luck vs Robert Griffin III: Which QB Made the Stronger Case at Combine? | Bleacher Report

I do agree that Luck is the better prospect but it's not like there is a major gap between the two.

 

[RobertWeathers]

CAR went 6-10 last year.

IF RGIII can match Newton's monster year...........

CAR's defense is terrible. Their offense scored 25 a game. Not all Cam's fault.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Andy, you are a smart guy. You need to see the big picture here. The 'Skins STINK and have stunk for a decade.

so far so good.

They have no identity.

Double-plus untrue. They have a crystal clear identity: They are the guys who make the wrong moves every year in free agency and the draft, overpay at every turn, and pay first if you promise to play well for them later. They are the anti-Pats.

They have no character. The have no Pro-Bowl talent.

They always have a ton of pro-bowl talent two-to-five years removed from their pro bowl seasons. Now granted I don't know how they're going to pull that off w/RG-iiii...

They are overshadowed every year by the Iggles, 'Boys and Giants.

Sometimes they are overshadowed by fans throwing around a nerf ball or their own cheerleaders....

They are simply not competitive. The have handed out the most $$$ in FA than any team. They do not have any QB's to develop. If in 2012 they can develop RGIII and he shows he is a perennial ProBowler and invigorate that franchise and fan base in the process, it'll be well worth it.

This is why I hate the move: Because I like RG III. It just seems so unlikely that any move Washington makes -- especially such a flamboyant one -- will pan out.

It's not just politicians that move to Washington and become addle-minded spendthrifts out of touch with reality.

I think the answer will surprise you. By my count if CN has a better year in 2012, 20 or so NFL teams would take him over their current NFL QB in a heartbeat. It's a QBs league.

Ever watch "the Brady Six"? It is indeed a QB league. The draft, however, is what it's always been: a crap shoot. You really that sure about this year's big fat news headline, or is it just possible that having a bunch of available picks is the better strategy for such a situation, no matter how crying your need is?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Ever watch "the Brady Six"? It is indeed a QB league. The draft, however, is what it's always been: a crap shoot. You really that sure about this year's big fat news headline, or is it just possible that having a bunch of available picks is the better strategy for such a situation, no matter how crying your need is?

Good post with responses that were funny.

I think folks need to look at QBs at a couple of different levels.
1) Caretaker QBs
2) Playmaking QBs.

For 10+ years now, the 'Skins have failed to acquire/develop a QB. In that time the competition has developed/acquired Vick, Manning and Romo- playmaking QB's so IMO a caretaker QB isn't gonna cut it in this division unless they have a dominant defense.

You can make the case that good decisions are never born from desperation but the 'Skins have a defense that can compete and an owner that will spend of FAs.

The key for them will be their ability to find players in the middle rounds. In their last two drafts, the results seem mixed.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

It should also be noted that of those 22 appearances
4 were by the #1 pick
5 by other first rounders
11 (fully half) were drafted in the 6th round later or not at all, or not drafted as a QB (Gannon)

So while you may have shown that, whether its the chicken or the egg, great QBs and SB berths are very common, but you haven't shown that drafting this years great QB prospect and SBs are related at all.

No argument. That's why I said "f you think that RGIII is one of those kind of guys and you're willing to roll the dice, then it's definitely worth it."

We're talking about "eye of the beholder" here. In this case, the "beholder" is a guy who's been notoriously wrong about how he spends draft picks and money.

I honestly don't know if Griffin is worth it and lean about 55--45 that he isn't, but that's close enough that I'm not going to slam Snyder for this. But even a broken (analog ) clock is right twice a day, so maybe it's Dan's turn.

On the other hand, from everything I've seen and heard about Luck and about how other's perceive him, I'd be 75--25 that he would have been worth it (I don't think it gets much better than 75--25 when it comes to decisions like this, so you're always taking a risk).

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, you are a smart guy. You need to see the big picture here. The 'Skins STINK and have stunk for a decade. They have no identity. They have no character. The have no Pro-Bowl talent. They are overshadowed every year by the Iggles, 'Boys and Giants. They are simply not competitive. The have handed out the most $$$ in FA than any team. They do not have any QB's to develop. If in 2012 they can develop RGIII and he shows he is a perennial ProBowler and invigorate that franchise and fan base in the process, it'll be well worth it.

Actually I am the one looking at the big picture, you think that fan excitement over drafting an unproven rookie is the big picture?
How about building a winning team?
The team you described (which is overly exaggerated negatively btw) is devoid of players. Trading their next 3 #1 picks plus a 2 to get one guy is foolhardy.

Last year the Browns were in the #6 slot.
For the picks the Rams will have they would have gotte
Julio Jones (the 6th pick)
Andrew Dalton (with their 2nd)
Jaball Sheard (Clevelands 2nd)
and couldpick Justin Blackmon with this years 1 in trade
and still have a 1 next year

Are you seriously telling me you would not trade Cam Newton for
Dalton, Jones AND Blackmon plus still have a 2nd round DL and next years 1 also?

THAT is the trade the Redskins just made using last years draft.
If you would rather have Newton than all those players there is no point discussing this further.

I think the answer will surprise you. By my count if CN has a better year in 2012, 20 or so NFL teams would take him over their current NFL QB in a heartbeat. It's a QBs league.

Wait, you think there are 20 NFL teams that would trade their QB and their next 3 1s for Cam Newton? Can I get some of what you are smoking?

 

[Ring 6]

I thought this article was very interesting.

Andrew Luck vs Robert Griffin III: Which QB Made the Stronger Case at Combine? | Bleacher Report

I do agree that Luck is the better prospect but it's not like there is a major gap between the two.

Dude, its the Bleacher Report. The Bleacher Report is a bunch of fans writing articles.
And you first said it was a toss up, now you cite a fan writing an article about combine workouts to say there isnt a major gap?
There is a gap as wide as the Grand Canyon. You could not find a single qualified NFL executive who would take Griffin over Luck. Luck is unanimously considered a once in a generation propsect, while Griffin wasn't even on the radar before having a good year.
Leaf was closer to Manning and Mirer closer to Bledsoe that Griffin is to Luck in terms of the decision of who to draft. Hell Rodgers was closer to Smith and he dropped to 24th or so,

 

[Ring 6]

IMHO, yes, If the 1sts are spread over three years. However, note that draftees are paid on a rookie scale and are worth less than these proven top stars.

Cam Newton would be worth this deal in a heartbeat.

If Cleveland who was in the 6 spot last year made this deal, the Panthers could have had
Andrew Dalton (with their 2. I know they traded it, but the Rams havent)
Julio Jones (Cle 11 #1)
Justin Blackmon (Cle 12 #1)

Are you saying Newton is worth Dalton AND Julio Jones AND Blackmon?
On top of that they would have gotten Clevelands 2 also (Jabaar Sheard) and would still have next years 1.

Newton and no WRs vs Dalton and 2 top 6 picked WRs plus another 1 and 2.
There is no way in the world Newton is worth that trade.