The 2012 Combine Thread

[Snake Eyes]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

That same FA can be used to bring in a TE3, as can a lower round draft pick.

What late round TE prospect or FA has anything close to the talent of Fleener?

This is true of pretty much every team at pretty much every position. It's a rarity when teams can remain stacked with both high end starters, and high end starters as backups, at any one position for any real period of time. Welcome to the salary cap era!

Claiming that Fleener would be a backup, even if done repeatedly, does not make it true.

Using the logic that you, and others, have put forth, teams like the Saints, Patriots, Giants, Chargers, Rams, Lions, etc... should be trying to trade up to #1 overall so that they can draft Luck and run a QBBC system, especially since a QB could get injured

Horrible comparison, on many levels.

Instead of trying to force Fleener into a WR position, the team could draft a quality WR prospect. That makes much more sense.

What WR prospects out there are 6'6, 245lbs, and have the ball skills that Fleener does?

 

[Belichicknumber1]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Can someone tell me how Streeter has looked? I have been very interested in him cause of his size. Just wondering how is 40 and drills went thanks in advance :rocker: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker:

 

[borg]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Nice hijacked thread regarding backup TEs.
Moving on to the combine thread OP......I'm most interested in WRs/S. Floyd had incredible hand strength....but Hill was much smoooother in his breaks with incredible athleticism......couldn't help comparing this kid to a young freak Moss....without the production. In my dreams, a guy built like Hill is the Branch replacement. Maybe the Pats are fortunate that the kid has minimal production in a basic offense. If he was a producing stud, he wouldn't be available at the end of round 1. JPP was a physical freak without the bones.....and the Giants hit paydirt.
I say send Brady and McDaniels to Georgia on a "golfing trip" and check this kid out. Then draft him and let him diddle around with Revis twice a year. Wes says Thank you

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

What late round TE prospect or FA has anything close to the talent of Fleener?

Completely irrelevant, since you're not looking for a starting TE and don't need to spend the high pick on one.

Claiming that Fleener would be a backup, even if done repeatedly, does not make it true.

Except that, unless you think he's somehow going to beat out Hernandez or Gronk, it does make it true.

Horrible comparison, on many levels.

The comparison is fine. You don't like it because it shows how stupid the "get the TE!" argument is, but that's irrelevant.

What WR prospects out there are 6'6, 245lbs, and have the ball skills that Fleener does?

Since I don't want a 6'6", 245 pound, non-WR to be my WR, why would I care?

Here's a little note from Reiss:

If I had to sum up what coaches and scouts from around the NFL believe the Patriots need most, based on casual discussions at the combine, the answers are an outside receiver and more athletes on defense. Some feel too much pressure is placed on quarterback Tom Brady because of those deficiencies. I’d add a kickoff returner to the list.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4718369/quick-hit-thoughts-around-nfl-pats-92

Wide receiver and defensive players, not a backup tight end.

 

[Daigle]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

.... and maybe he's not, but Gronk is more than just a 'catching TE'.



"backup" v. "starter"..... sort of the whole point here, chief.



Apples to apples, as fans of any teams that have seen their QB go down know. Patriots fans should know this as well as any group, after all, given what we saw in 2008. Why, had Matt Cassel been an Andrew Luck, the Patriots might have won the Super Bowl even with Brady going down.



You're not sure of anything. You're making a guess, nothing more, and it's likely a lousy one given NFL history.



There's FA for TEs, and there's more need at positions other than backup TE, so those needs should be higher priorities.



So you've now chucked the idiotic "running into the ground" argument, right? I mean, since it was just a red herring and all....



No, you're screaming for using a top pick on a particular player, when there's no need for the Patriots to spend a high pick in an attempt to get a starting quality TE, but the team does need 1-2 starting quality WRs. There's a big difference.



That must be why you jumped on my post... because you just don't care.

Hate to break up your party but I think all of you could try and not post so aggressive and the thread would be alot nicer to read.

Considering what you actually post there are of course different ways of solving the aging WR issue. You all agree on the possibility of FA and draft. Both of you put up valid arguments but neither one of you knows how it would work. Nobody does, and while you are more than welcome to share your views on the best way forward its still just suggestions. So try and have that in mind when you two "discuss". We cant fill all holes with the draft obviously. In due time we will find out what BB does.

My two cents is that we should draft O-line in the first round, either Decastro or Konz and then choose best player available. Argument for that is that I think with hopefully Lloyd coming in we have alof of good tools to work with. What would open even more routes for our WRs and TEs is actually being able to run the ball better. Also you can never get too much pass protection.

If we end up picking player after need the need might still be there next year. So, best player, after we picked Decastro.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Can someone tell me how Streeter has looked? I have been very interested in him cause of his size. Just wondering how is 40 and drills went thanks in advance :rocker: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker:

Streeter didn't do anything to hurt himself. Ran a 4.34 (unoffical). Looked steady in the drills, but not amazing.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Completely irrelevant, since you're not looking for a starting TE and don't need to spend the high pick on one

There's no reason Fleener can't start, why can't I have him, Gronk, and Ahern on the field at the same time? I could also use them in committee to rest the one of the others, as well as for depth.

Except that, unless you think he's somehow going to beat out Hernandez or Gronk, it does make it true

Fleener might be better than Ahern for a particular play and better than Gronk for another, or I can have all 3 of them at the same time if I want.

The comparison is fine. You don't like it because it shows how stupid the "get the TE!" argument is, but that's irrelevant.

- no one here is advocating spending the resources need to get to the #1 spot to draft to draft a TE.

- you can only have 1 starting QB but you can have multiple TREs on the field at the same time, we did this plenty in 2010.

Your comparison is simply bad, quit while you're losing.

Since I don't want a 6'6", 245 pound, non-WR to be my WR, why would I care?

Interesting, I always thought that a play who can do multiple things was a good thing, BB has stated that it's a good thing as well. Since Fleener can function very well in that role I really dont care what label people apply to him, whether it be TE or WR. Having Fleener would improve the team, and I think it would do so more than any other player likely to be available in the early 2nd.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

My two cents is that we should draft O-line in the first round, either Decastro or Konz and then choose best player available. Argument for that is that I think with hopefully Lloyd coming in we have alof of good tools to work with. What would open even more routes for our WRs and TEs is actually being able to run the ball better. Also you can never get too much pass protection.

If we end up picking player after need the need might still be there next year. So, best player, after we picked Decastro.

DeCastro and Cordy Glenn will both be gone by the time the Pats pick at 27. Konz is also likely to be gone at that point.

In all honesty, the Pats are going to go for BEST VALUE AVAILABLE like they always have. I don't foresee any issues like they had in 2006 because I believe that BB learned from that error.

 

[BradyToAmendola]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

I'd really like another receiver to help stretch the field and open things up even more for Welker and Gronk and Hernandez. Maybe not in the 1st round, but maybe someone like Nick Toon, Mohamed Sanu or Stephen Hill in the 2nd.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Hate to break up your party but I think all of you could try and not post so aggressive and the thread would be alot nicer to read.

Considering what you actually post there are of course different ways of solving the aging WR issue. You all agree on the possibility of FA and draft. Both of you put up valid arguments but neither one of you knows how it would work. Nobody does, and while you are more than welcome to share your views on the best way forward its still just suggestions. So try and have that in mind when you two "discuss". We cant fill all holes with the draft obviously. In due time we will find out what BB does.

My two cents is that we should draft O-line in the first round, either Decastro or Konz and then choose best player available. Argument for that is that I think with hopefully Lloyd coming in we have alof of good tools to work with. What would open even more routes for our WRs and TEs is actually being able to run the ball better. Also you can never get too much pass protection.

If we end up picking player after need the need might still be there next year. So, best player, after we picked Decastro.

Methinks DeCastro will not be available at 27.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

I'd really like another receiver to help stretch the field and open things up even more for Welker and Gronk and Hernandez. Maybe not in the 1st round, but maybe someone like Nick Toon, Mohamed Sanu or Stephen Hill in the 2nd.

If you want someone to "stretch the field", Sanu really isn't your guy. He's more of a possession receiver ala David Givens.

Nick Toon didn't really impress me during his combine workouts. He didn't stand out in a good or bad way.

 

[patfanken]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

DeCastro and Cordy Glenn will both be gone by the time the Pats pick at 27. Konz is also likely to be gone at that point.

In all honesty, the Pats are going to go for BEST VALUE AVAILABLE like they always have. I don't foresee any issues like they had in 2006 because I believe that BB learned from that error.

Time out guys. Since this thread is all about numbers let me throw out a couple that should DOMINATE this draft and FA season. The Pats had a top 3 offense, and a BOTTOM 3 defense.

So when you have limited resources and are charged to build a total team, not just a fantasy team. So where do you think that Pats should spend those very LIMITED resources, offense or defense?????

So DB tell me why are we even talking about taking a Offensive lineman in the first round?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

There's no reason Fleener can't start, why can't I have him, Gronk, and Ahern on the field at the same time? I could also use them in committee to rest the one of the others, as well as for depth.

1.) You don't TEBC when you've got an all pro and a matchup nightmare in the group. You go with 2 starters and a backup.

2.) Fleener isn't a wide receiver. Welker is more of a slot than a true WR. Why would you add yet another middle receiver to your starting lineup? Are you trying to get Brady to retire?

Fleener might be better than Ahern for a particular play and better than Gronk for another, or I can have all 3 of them at the same time if I want.

If Fleener was going to last until late in the draft, this wouldn't be an issue. Having to take him in the first or second is the problem. The team has needs in a year where those needs can be filled via the draft. Grabbing a luxury pick would be foolish.

- no one here is advocating spending the resources need to get to the #1 spot to draft to draft a TE.

- you can only have 1 starting QB but you can have multiple TREs on the field at the same time, we did this plenty in 2010.

Your comparison is simply bad, quit while you're losing.

Again, the comparison is fine and you just don't like it because it kills much of your argument. If you want to feel 'better' about it, call the trade up to get Griffin III instead of Luck, since his numbers reflect an athlete that could potentially be helpful at several other positions.

Interesting, I always thought that a play who can do multiple things was a good thing, BB has stated that it's a good thing as well. Since Fleener can function very well in that role I really dont care what label people apply to him, whether it be TE or WR. Having Fleener would improve the team, and I think it would do so more than any other player likely to be available in the early 2nd.

You're claiming that Fleener can be a legitimate starting WR in the NFL. How often have 240lb+ college TEs made such a transition?

Also, the "would do so more than any other player" is extremely unlikely given the current Patriots needs.

 

[Husse]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

So, Brockers only did 19 reps in the bench press. Did it hurt his stock?

 

[borg]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Just one pass catcher with speed...is that too much to ask. And since the fast guy will be heading down field...lets make that receiver tall....and since Brady has trouble with the deep ball...how about having a receiver that can out leap the midget DBs.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Time out guys. Since this thread is all about numbers let me throw out a couple that should DOMINATE this draft and FA season. The Pats had a top 3 offense, and a BOTTOM 3 defense.

So when you have limited resources and are charged to build a total team, not just a fantasy team. So where do you think that Pats should spend those very LIMITED resources, offense or defense?????

So DB tell me why are we even talking about taking a Offensive lineman in the first round?

Ken - it helps to read who I was replying to. Daigle was the one talking about talking an O-line in the first. That being said, you also seem to be over-looking some potential issues on the Pats O-line in that Light and Waters are both talking about potentially retiring. Add to that, the Pats do not have a bonifide center since Wendell really isn't the answer and McDonald is untested beyond the 2 games.

Now, going one step farther, there are PLENTY of good free agents at positions of need for the Patriots. There are a bunch at WR, Guard, Center, The D-line and OLB. The one position that there really isn't a lot is Safety. And there aren't a LOT of good safeties in the draft either.

Now, I understand that the Pats look at VALUE when they draft. They don't look solely at need. They don't look SOLELY at Best Player available. Now, if the Pats rate a Cordy Glenn a 7 or 8 while rating a Devon Still only a 6, the Pats are taking Glenn and there is nothing you nor anyone else can do about it.

So, while the Offense WAS the #3 offense in the league, there are plenty of question marks about it going forward that talking about an O-lineman in the 1st is not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Time out guys. Since this thread is all about numbers let me throw out a couple that should DOMINATE this draft and FA season. The Pats had a top 3 offense, and a BOTTOM 3 defense.

So when you have limited resources and are charged to build a total team, not just a fantasy team. So where do you think that Pats should spend those very LIMITED resources, offense or defense?????

So DB tell me why are we even talking about taking a Offensive lineman in the first round?

If the right offensive lineman came about and by some miracle Decastro or Konz are still on the board you take one. You could make an argument that those two are rated higher than most of the defensive players in this draft.

 

[captain stone]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

Doug Martin out of Boise St. not doing well in the RB receiving drills.. Dropped 2 easy ones..

Davin Meggett is totally jacked as well.. 5'8 3/4 and 211 lbs.. Any relation to Dave Meggett???

EDIT: Just saw that he is, in fact, the son of DAVE MEGGETT...

Now that makes me feel old (again).

 

[Snake Eyes]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

1.) You don't TEBC when you've got an all pro and a matchup nightmare in the group. You go with 2 starters and a backup.

2.) Fleener isn't a wide receiver. Welker is more of a slot than a true WR. Why would you add yet another middle receiver to your starting lineup?

Ok, so Vincent Jackson is a beast of a receiver at 6'5, 235lb, yet Fleener would obviously stink in that role, though he's already performed just fine when lining up wide, because he's an inch taller and 10lbs heavier

Again, the comparison is fine and you just don't like it because it kills much of your argument. If you want to feel 'better' about it, call the trade up to get Griffin III instead of Luck, since his numbers reflect an athlete that could potentially be helpful at several other positions

Having RG3 play a different position would be stupid because of the opportunity costs in the trade cost as well as the fact that whomever else would likely be much less effective at the QB position.

The value of Fleener would have to be weighed against the option of getting someone else, what do they provide relative to him. Assuming he's available in the early-mid 2nd we'd have to compare what's available to the value of Fleener, and I think he has more value that most of the players mocked to those spots, if you disagree that's fine, go ahead and make your case why other guys would have more impact.

Finally, does Ahern have additional value because he can line up wide and also run the ball? I always thought the Marshall Faulk had extra impact because of his ability as a receiver, does Cam Newton cause problems for the defense because of his ability to run with the ball?

Being able to do many things is a good thing, both Gronk and Ahern have lined up wide, why would BB be so stupid to use a non-WR as a WR with those two?

 

[skinnydog]

Re: * The 2012 Combine Drills!! *

So, Brockers only did 19 reps in the bench press. Did it hurt his stock?

I hope so.