Rate the defense

[TruthSeeker]

This is a horrible defense. Bill gambled on the haynesworth experiment and it failed badly.

What gamble? And how did it "fail badly"? I must have missed the part where the Patriots mortgaged their future and bet their present on Haynesworth. Just consider it a (2013) 5th round draft choice that didn't cut it.

Then again, perhaps you're right. We'll probably know in 2014 or 2015 when that lost 5th round pick comes back to bite us.

 

[Texxx]

I voted "mediocre" based off the fact that the Patriots were 15th in the NFL in PPG given up by team defenses. Not as bad as what is always being reported when they say that they're ranked like 31st or whatever it is. Realistically they're 15th.

Now the Pats great offense helps out their defense a lot though be scoring so much to where teams have to try and play catch up to where they have to pass more which makes it easier for the Patriots defense to scheme for the pass and makes other offenses more predictable and easier to stop. Playing with the lead is always a big advantage for any defense.

 

[EJ Blitz]

Mediocre, the addition/subtraction of players in the offseason were mostly all huge disappointments and we've gotten poor contributions from people that were supposed to be impact players this year. Yet they give up just enough points to stay competitive and ended 13-3. That is by definition, mediocre.

 

[PikesPeakPatsFan]

I'd say mediocre. Bend don't break is what they are trying for obviously. 3rd in the league at +17 takeaways. Middle of the pack with regards to points allowed. At the bottom in yards allowed. They give up big plays that have me screaming at the TV and cursing under my breath but then they come up with some key turnovers or red zone stops when I least expect it. I hate 3rd downs, particularly 3rd and long. In those situations, it seems that we nearly always give up a conversion. But then we stiffen in the red zone and hold the opponent to a FG or get a big turnover at a crucial moment. They are a scary unit to watch but at times they come up with some nice plays. I think mediocre describes them fairly well.

 

[Ring 6]

I voted "mediocre" based off the fact that the Patriots were 15th in the NFL in PPG given up by team defenses. Not as bad as what is always being reported when they say that they're ranked like 31st or whatever it is. Realistically they're 15th.

Now the Pats great offense helps out their defense a lot though be scoring so much to where teams have to try and play catch up to where they have to pass more which makes it easier for the Patriots defense to scheme for the pass and makes other offenses more predictable and easier to stop. Playing with the lead is always a big advantage for any defense.

It is a big advantage, but arguably, it is a disadvantage STATISTICALLY.
When you have a large lead and play a prevent style defense against a team that will throw 4 straight passes to get a first down, you will surely allow more yards and points than you would if running time off the clock wasn't your first objective. This fits the Packers and Saints too.
None of those 3 defenses are the worst few in the league if you teamed them with an average offense and they didn't give up garbage time stats.

 

[Rob0729]

Actually you can make the argument that the Pats' defense will be the better defense to take the field tomorrow night. Since everyone who trash this defense is in love with stats (well one stat), I will make this argument with stats:

- Denver is significantly worse than the Pats in opposing QB passer rating. Opposing QBs vs. the Pats have an 86.4 rating and they have an 93.1 rating vs. the Broncos.
- The Pats gave up 21.4 PPG while the Broncos gave up 24.4 PPG
- The Pats with the "worst secondary of all time" had 23 INTs this season. The Broncos with two future HOFers had 9.
- The Broncos have to pass rushing studs yet they only have one more sack than the Pats (41 vs. 40)
- The Pats' defense caused 21 fumbles while the Broncos caused 19.

The good news for you people who think the Pats defense sucks. The Broncos' defense sucks just as bad or worse.

This shows the perception vs. reality argument is alive and well. The perception is that the Pats' defense is one of the worst because they give up so many yards and the Broncos' defense is good because they won a lot of close game. The reality isn't the case.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

This season, our defense hasn't been squarely to blame for any of our three losses. Buffalo would be one I would argue that the defense had more than enough opportunities to not blow, but Brady was doing his best to help them blow it. Our offense may have never scored if we didn't force a pick out of Ben deep in his own end, and how many blown opportunities did we have in the first half of the Giants game? Brady threw a red zone pick, and Gost missed a 20-something yard field goal.

We've had lots of games where the defense held firm or made up for prior screw-ups while waiting for the offense to get rolling.

The bend but don't break is well and good, and our defense will do what it has done all year. Our issue is a lack of playmakers in the secondary. That's where Rodney, even in his old age, was immense. He could make the plays no one else did because he had 'it.' Except for stupid Tyree, although I've heard lots of people say that Asante was supposed to be on Tyree that play.

 

[VrabelJr]

Even with the benefit of hindsight, which safety would you have taken?

This. If you think 2012 is weak for Safeties take a look at 2011. Rahim Moore, Chris Conte, and Quinton Carter were the first three Safeties off the board.

 

[Double TE]

They took Ras-I Dowling, who was OK until the season ending injury. If McCourty is being move to a full time safety then we need a corner more than a safety right? Arrington is OK as the other corner I think?

 

[VrabelJr]

Honestly Dowling projects to more of a Safety than McCourty does. Dowling appears to be much better in Man coverage though so it's hard to move him there.

 

[IllegalContact]

mediocre.....that's what the PPG's say

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Good enough to finish the season with the #1 seed in the AFC.

Good enough to win is good enough for me.

 

[Kontradiction]

Good enough to finish the season with the #1 seed in the AFC.

Good enough to win is good enough for me.

Do you honestly believe that the defense is the reason we got the #1 seed as opposed to, say, Brady throwing for over 5,000 yards?

 

[Rob0729]

Do you honestly believe that the defense is the reason we got the #1 seed as opposed to, say, Brady throwing for over 5,000 yards?

Do you think the Saints' or Packers' defenses got them in.

Eli Manning passed for 4,933 yards and barely got in. Philip Rivers passed for nearly 4700 yards and didn't get in. Both of those teams played in as bad or worse divisions as the Pats' did.

This defense is middle of the pack. It isn't great. It isn't horrible. It is average to slightly below average.

TheGodInAGreyHoodie said it was good enough. That doesn't mean it was good. It means that they weren't giving up more than 23-24 points a game so the offense could win.

The fact of the matter with all the offensive numbers going through the roof this year, the defensive numbers have been equally as bad. People take that into effect. If there are three 5,000 yard passers and ten QBs who passed for over 4,000 yards; there are going to be a lot of bad defenses.

 

[mgteich]

I thought that using facts and reasoned argument was not disallowed on threads regarding our defense.

Actually you can make the argument that the Pats' defense will be the better defense to take the field tomorrow night. Since everyone who trash this defense is in love with stats (well one stat), I will make this argument with stats:

- Denver is significantly worse than the Pats in opposing QB passer rating. Opposing QBs vs. the Pats have an 86.4 rating and they have an 93.1 rating vs. the Broncos.
- The Pats gave up 21.4 PPG while the Broncos gave up 24.4 PPG
- The Pats with the "worst secondary of all time" had 23 INTs this season. The Broncos with two future HOFers had 9.
- The Broncos have to pass rushing studs yet they only have one more sack than the Pats (41 vs. 40)
- The Pats' defense caused 21 fumbles while the Broncos caused 19.

The good news for you people who think the Pats defense sucks. The Broncos' defense sucks just as bad or worse.

This shows the perception vs. reality argument is alive and well. The perception is that the Pats' defense is one of the worst because they give up so many yards and the Broncos' defense is good because they won a lot of close game. The reality isn't the case.

 

[Kontradiction]

Do you think the Saints' or Packers' defenses got them in.

No. Much like us, their offenses did in spite of their defenses.

Eli Manning passed for 4,933 yards and barely got in. Philip Rivers passed for nearly 4700 yards and didn't get in. Both of those teams played in as bad or worse divisions as the Pats' did.

Okay.

This defense is middle of the pack.

When you're the second worst pass defense in history, you're not middle of the pack.

It isn't great.

Nowhere near it.

It isn't horrible.

Thus far, it has been. Unless they're in the red zone.

TheGodInAGreyHoodie said it was good enough. That doesn't mean it was good. It means that they weren't giving up more than 23-24 points a game so the offense could win.

No, he actually attributed the one seed to the defense.

The fact of the matter with all the offensive numbers going through the roof this year, the defensive numbers have been equally as bad.

You say that as if every defense in the league has suffered because of the good offenses and rule changes. I didn't see the 49ers defense having much of a problem. Nor did I see Baltimore's defense having much of a problem. The Giants just held that powerhouse Atlanta offense with all of those weapons to two points. We haven't held an offense to single digit points all season. If this offense gets bogged down or Brady has an off day, we're in trouble.

 

[Rob0729]

When you're the second worst pass defense in history, you're not middle of the pack.

So you are predicting the Broncos could beat the Pats 480 yards to 400? This is not the second worst pass defense in history. Not even close. Not even the second worst this year. The Broncos are worse than the Pats in pass defense go look at the numbers beyond yards. The Pats have a better opposing QB passer rating than two teams currently in the playoffs. I know the media are too stupid to look past yards allowed , but one stat does not determine the quality of a defense.

You say that as if every defense in the league has suffered because of the good offenses and rule changes. I didn't see the 49ers defense having much of a problem. Nor did I see Baltimore's defense having much of a problem. The Giants just held that powerhouse Atlanta offense with all of those weapons to two points. We haven't held an offense to single digit points all season. If this offense gets bogged down or Brady has an off day, we're in trouble.

Three examples out of 32 teams and one of those examples was only for ONE GAME. Again there were ten QBs who passed for over 4,000 yards. The Pats faced two of them (Eli Manning and Tony Romo). Romo passed for 317 yards and Eli threw for 250 yards vs. the Pats. if defenses aren't horrible throughout the league this year, where are all these top QBs getting their yards? Because it certainly isn't from the Patriots.

 

[Rob0729]

I thought that using facts and reasoned argument was not disallowed on threads regarding our defense.

Sorry, the Pats gave up the second most yards in history - they are the worst defense ever. Better?

 

[Keyser Söze]

Sucks, I've never been so stressed out watching a Belichick defense.

 

[Richard Camembert]

We haven't held an offense to single digit points all year.

Chiefs, 34-3.

I picked mediocre. The eye test tells me they are horrid, and in particular the trail technique is laughably ineffective. Yet they have periods of effectiveness, sometimes for more than half a game. And I still think BB has been using the weak second half competition to create opportunities to develop their experience and performance in pressure situations. I'd put them at the lower end of mediocre.