Tim Tebow's Pastor "God is saving the Broncos"

[MP-Logick]

 

[vyrago]

There are probably hundreds and thousands of men playing this game or played this game and men coaching as well who go to church every sunday or other times of the week and give their whole lives up to Jesus but have been in the NFL for years and have never won a thing,some never even made the playoffs....

That does not make them any less worthy than Tebow .... this is something that never should be associated with Football,God does not favor one athlete over the other.

Remember when Dungy held up the SB trophy and said "God wanted the Colts to win?"...how many of us hurled that very minute?

This kind of self congratulatory crap just drive me nuts. When the lone person who survives the plane crash says god was looking out for me what is he/she saying about how god felt about all the passengers who were killed?

Did Dungy mean that god wanted the Bears to lose, or he didn't care about the Bears?

If I were a believer, I would want a fair-minded deity who knows what's important, not some hopped up football fan football.

 

[catsigater]

My biggest problem with "people of faith", is not with their "faith", but their incessant need to tell you about it. While our country was build on "faith", the founding fathers were wise enough to insist that it remain STRICTLY a private matter between and INDIVIDUAL and their beliefs.

Um, no they didn't. They viewed religion as a necessary condition of maintaining a democracy.

A religious upbringing was seen as indispensible to being a good citizen as being able to read. Of course they saw it as desirable those beliefs be spread throughout the population.

How could such a foundational requirement of civil and public life be kept a strictly private matter?

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

"Can the liberties of a nation be sure when we remove their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people, that these liberties are a gift from God?" Thomas Jefferson

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson

"It is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue." John Adams

"It is impossible that any people of government should ever prosper, where men render not unto God, that which is God's, as well as to Caesar, that which is Caesar's." William Penn

"The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments." Benjamin Rush Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of man and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice?

And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?" George Washington

 

[patfanken]

Um, no they didn't. They viewed religion as a necessary condition of maintaining a democracy.

A religious upbringing was seen as indispensible to being a good citizen as being able to read. Of course they saw it as desirable those beliefs be spread throughout the population.

How could such a foundational requirement of civil and public life be kept a strictly private matter?

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

"Can the liberties of a nation be sure when we remove their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people, that these liberties are a gift from God?" Thomas Jefferson

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson

"It is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue." John Adams

"It is impossible that any people of government should ever prosper, where men render not unto God, that which is God's, as well as to Caesar, that which is Caesar's." William Penn

"The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments." Benjamin Rush Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of man and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice?

And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?" George Washington

All fine quotes and estimable sentiments, But I find it intersting that in all these quotes these founding fathers refer to a "God" that is generic and can be interpreted as one sees fit. In not a single statement is ************ mentioned or even Christianity

That the same founding fathers also deemed it critical that the establishment of ANY religion be made explicitly in the Constitution. They understood too well that although the lessons of "religious principles" should be a goal of the body politic, the government's recognition of religion beyond protection of the individual's expression of one's personal belief is the first step to the road to tyranny

Just as we've seen the violence damage done by a corrupt interpretation of Koran, centuries of history has seen the New and Old Testaments interpreted to justify everything from violence, murder, intolerance and slavery.

Unless or until the clean separation of church and state which the Constitution clearly mandates and the founders so wisely implemented; is repaired, then what we see happening in the Muslim world will soon be happening here, only under the guise of Christianity instead of Islam. But Tyranny and intolerance is the same under any state religion. The politics are exactly the same.

 

[pherein]

Tebow is a born again Christian. He is saved. They feel it is their duty to let the unwashed masses know about Jesus. He's not going to stop talking about his personal saviour JC. That's how the born agains roll.

I wish someone would ask him about dinosaurs and how old the earth is. Good stuff.

That would be hilarious if other players started saying before every interview,

" First off I would like to thank evolution and dinosaurs "

It's just as silly and unnecessary ,lol

 

[jays52]

Gronk should open his post game by saying "First off, I'd just like to say Praise Odin...."

 

[Run DMC]

God used to love little Tommy Brady before he slipped and fell on a NYC roofdeck when he hooked up with those 2 ho's before the game which shall not be mentioned. God's wrath came down on Tom and cause him to slip on the wet deck, causing his ankle to get jacked up and blowing our perfect season and ending our dynasty. God now loves Tim Tebow. Ain't it a *****?

 

[Jackson 2]

He has EVERY right to practice his beliefs. What he DOESN'T have right to do is impose those beliefs on those who don't want to hear it. Its not like when the Jehovah'a Witnesses come to your door and you have a choice to listen or not. We all know about his beliefs by now, so his constant claims of Heavenly thanks is nothing more than proselytizing, and its NOT his right to use a football game as a vehicle to spread his view of what's right as far a religion goes.

Up until now, our nation did a pretty good job of not allowing a predominant faith, yet every week we are subjected to being made uncomfortable watching a game we love by someone who is not only exalting a God not everyone believes in, but a very narrow religious interpretation of that God.

Its not right and its not healthy for the body politic

Look, my beliefs are a long, long way from Tim Tebow's, particularly when it comes to politics. As a "lapsed Catholic", I find his proselytizing annoying, but if he wants to spout that stuff, I'll do my best to ignore it. But, I do believe he has the right to express it as he does, whether I like it or not. My larger point is that if athletes who practice Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism or, God forbid (no pun intended), the Islamic faith did what he does as often as he does and as publicly as he does, I'm guessing the reaction from the public at large might be much less accepting. What bothers me more is the adulation he's getting for his accomplishments on the field, which is not commensurate with what he's actually achieved.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Unless or until the clean separation of church and state which the Constitution clearly mandates and the founders so wisely implemented; is repaired, then what we see happening in the Muslim world will soon be happening here, only under the guise of Christianity instead of Islam. But Tyranny and intolerance is the same under any state religion. The politics are exactly the same.

As a science guy and decidedly not a born again Christian adherent I find the hysterical fear of Christian domination happening here a boogeyman. We go to absurd lengths to separate Church and state these last few decades. The last 2 decades clearly show that far more worrisome are folks willing to slaughter me and my family for failing to observe Sharia.

This thread needs to be moved to the Politics section.

 

[catsigater]

All fine quotes and estimable sentiments, But I find it intersting that in all these quotes these founding fathers refer to a "God" that is generic and can be interpreted as one sees fit. In not a single statement is ************ mentioned or even Christianity

That the same founding fathers also deemed it critical that the establishment of ANY religion be made explicitly in the Constitution. They understood too well that although the lessons of "religious principles" should be a goal of the body politic, the government's recognition of religion beyond protection of the individual's expression of one's personal belief is the first step to the road to tyranny

Just as we've seen the violence damage done by a corrupt interpretation of Koran, centuries of history has seen the New and Old Testaments interpreted to justify everything from violence, murder, intolerance and slavery.

Unless or until the clean separation of church and state which the Constitution clearly mandates and the founders so wisely implemented; is repaired, then what we see happening in the Muslim world will soon be happening here, only under the guise of Christianity instead of Islam. But Tyranny and intolerance is the same under any state religion. The politics are exactly the same.

And your sentiments are surely estimable as well.

However, the quotes weren't supplied to push any religious agenda. Only to debunk the myth that the Founders' somehow wished to banish religion from the public square.

Nothing could be further from the truth, your views notwithstanding.

As far as this unfortunate sentence:

That the same founding fathers also deemed it critical that the establishment of ANY religion be made explicitly in the Constitution.

Perhaps you'd care to reword it. As it stands, it seems to argue against your larger point and to also be factually incorrect.

Far from deeming "it critical that the establishment of ANY religion be made explicitly in the Constitution," the Constitution explicitly proscribes the establishment of religion.

Perhaps that's what you meant to say.

 

[fair catch fryar]

In all seriousness though...can the religious nutters leave sports alone? there's plenty of other **** for them to **** around with.[/B]

Amen to that brother!!

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Um, no they didn't. They viewed religion as a necessary condition of maintaining a democracy.

A religious upbringing was seen as indispensible to being a good citizen as being able to read. Of course they saw it as desirable those beliefs be spread throughout the population.

How could such a foundational requirement of civil and public life be kept a strictly private matter?

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

"Can the liberties of a nation be sure when we remove their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people, that these liberties are a gift from God?" Thomas Jefferson

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson

"It is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue." John Adams

"It is impossible that any people of government should ever prosper, where men render not unto God, that which is God's, as well as to Caesar, that which is Caesar's." William Penn

"The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments." Benjamin Rush Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of man and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice?

And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?" George Washington

You missed a few:

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814



In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814



History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.




The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814





Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


Thomas Jefferson quotes


So yeah, whatever.

 

[fair catch fryar]

No, the fact is he puts it on himself by grandstanding his religion. I can't wait for one of the Muslim players to start praising Allah in his press conferences.

If they did then they would be labeled terrorists.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Um, no they didn't. They viewed religion as a necessary condition of maintaining a democracy.

A religious upbringing was seen as indispensible to being a good citizen as being able to read. Of course they saw it as desirable those beliefs be spread throughout the population.

How could such a foundational requirement of civil and public life be kept a strictly private matter?

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

"Can the liberties of a nation be sure when we remove their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people, that these liberties are a gift from God?" Thomas Jefferson

"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." Thomas Jefferson

"It is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue." John Adams

"It is impossible that any people of government should ever prosper, where men render not unto God, that which is God's, as well as to Caesar, that which is Caesar's." William Penn

"The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments." Benjamin Rush Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of man and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice?

And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?" George Washington

Is that why the founders added a small thing that defined a separation of church and state. This isn't 1776 either.

 

[catsigater]

You missed a few:

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814



In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814



History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.




The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814





Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782


Thomas Jefferson quotes


So yeah, whatever.

I'm aware of those quotes, and agree with much of the sentiments behind them. Has nothing to do with my original response.

The Founders never "insisted that religion remain STRICTLY a private matter between an INDIVIDUAL and their beliefs."

If they had, Jefferson surely wouldn't have been giving his opinions on religion in public, would he?

 

[catsigater]

Is that why the founders added a small thing that defined a separation of church and state.

They proscribed the establishment of a state religion. That's not the same as saying, religion should "remain STRICTLY a private matter between an INDIVIDUAL and their beliefs."

This isn't 1776 either.

No, it's not. But that has nothing to do with anything I've said as far as the Founders' views on the utility of a religious citizenry.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

He has EVERY right to practice his beliefs. What he DOESN'T have right to do is impose those beliefs on those who don't want to hear it. Its not like when the Jehovah'a Witnesses come to your door and you have a choice to listen or not. We all know about his beliefs by now, so his constant claims of Heavenly thanks is nothing more than proselytizing, and its NOT his right to use a football game as a vehicle to spread his view of what's right as far a religion goes.

Up until now, our nation did a pretty good job of not allowing a predominant faith, yet every week we are subjected to being made uncomfortable watching a game we love by someone who is not only exalting a God not everyone believes in, but a very narrow religious interpretation of that God.

Its not right and its not healthy for the body politic

My wife who is a deep devoted Christian woman always says the appropriate response when it comes to believing and those that dont or are unsure...it called "Don't Shove The Dove" and she is right.

You don't have the right to push others to believe...you let them find their way of life and beliefs on their own.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Because it's Xmas and the Salvation Army kettles are a bit low i hear God is going to lay some big coin on the Patriots and the over. Money is not manna and the lord needs some of the real stuff this time. Frank from Glostah is going to lay the money for God.

 

[catsigater]

My wife who is a deep devoted Christian woman always says the appropriate response when it comes to believing and those that dont or are unsure...it called "Don't Shove The Dove" and she is right.

You don't have the right to push others to believe...you let them find their way of life and beliefs on their own.

As Americans, we most certainly have the right of free speech, which includes the right to attempt to persuade others.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I don't have a problem with him. He's not over the top is he? Do we want him bleeped out like he was throwing F bombs? Tolerance should be universal....not just for Michael Vick.