idle thoughts....,immediate Philly impressions

[shmessy]

I'm not sure what to think of Guyton, to be honest. We all know that he is better suited to defend the pass, and is a liability against the run, but I'm not sure if he deserves quite as much of the knocks that he gets around here. He is hands down, currently the #1 whipping boy on this forum.

Amen to that. He is the new Reche Caldwell. Very unfairly put down. Is he Mayo? No. But he does some things quite well, makes the occasional spectacular speed play and has been pretty damn good value for a UDFA.

 

[shmessy]

1) 4) Ninko will be a major factor when the Pats climb the holy mountain and battle Tesus at Mile High. Hope Spikes is available for that game as well.

8 letters: F-L-E-T-C-H-E-R.

We need him back for that game bigtime.

 

[muslimman]

It was also obvious that Jackson saw the film and saw the likes of Sterling Moore blowing up receivers over the middle of the field. He looked like he was hearing footsteps all day and got benched because of it.

YES. This is what we have needed on our defense the past couple years. It was easily the favorite aspect of the old SB winning Pats (looking at you Rodney ). It seriously underrated when it comes to talking about defense, talk all you want about yards given up and pass rush and all that but I believe above all else a defense needs to play with a mean streak and confidence.

I unfortunately didnt get to watch this game but I really hope youre right on this and other WRs in the AFC get the same message DJax did. Moore obviously has his limitations and is no revelation at safety but I absolutely have been loving the hits hes been dishing out these past weeks since he started. :rocker:

 

[patfanken]

Amen to that. He is the new Reche Caldwell. Very unfairly put down. Is he Mayo? No. But he does some things quite well, makes the occasional spectacular speed play and has been pretty damn good value for a UDFA.

Shmess, you know I don't usually beat up players, but the Guyton era is OVER.....and well it should be.

I applaud Guyton's efforts in having a 4 year Career coming in as an UDFA. I also believe that his contribution as a special teamer and backup LB has been worth the investment. HOWEVER.....we all know that Guyton's main value is to be the team's coverage LB in sub packages. He has the speed and quickness to excel at the position. Yet after 4 years of development, he JUST hasn't progressed.

Its one thing to have speed, its another to have "football speed". I've come to the conclusion (and I think so have the Pats) that Gary cannot translate his natural speed on to the field. Call it what you want, instincts, football intelligence, or whatever, Gary doesn't seem to have any. Add that to the fact he is a liability in the run game, not a good tackler, and hasn't shown up much on special teams, and you wind up with the inevitable conclusion that the Pats have to move on from Gary Guyton

Fletcher from what I have seen in his brief shots on the field HAS that instinct, so while he doesn't have the speed of Guyton, he is more likely to be around the ball when its thrown in his area. Tarpanian is another guy I think the Pats are looking at for that sub-coverage LB. Unfortunately it won't be until next year before we can make any evaluation on him.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Great post, particularly #1. Which I agree with. Why does a team like the Patriots constantly get criticized when they continue to call plays and score when their up, but yet a team that is going to lose is credited for still trying? IMO if a team puts in their backups and continues to play football regardless of the score then it's acceptable, but when the starters are left in to do the same it is questionable due to the injury factor while backups are simply getting more reps.

I'm not a fan of calling timeouts to prolong a game whose outcome has already been decided. Everything else (even the onside kick if you must) are fair game, IMO, but using the timeouts is definitely the equivalent of continually throwing the ball to run up the score.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Mayo has been injured and has been playing out of position. Spikes is our starting MLB. Mayo and Ninkovich start outside. With both Spikes and Fletcher out. Mayo is starting out of position at MLB and Guyton is starting outside.

I'm not convinced that starting a MLB at MLB is playing "out of position".

 

[TruthSeeker]

Brady was only sacked once yesterday and only misfired on 10 passes.

There were 10 incompletions; that doesn't mean Brady misfired on the passes.

 

[Aßßynormal]

<snip>
It was also obvious that Jackson saw the film and saw the likes of Sterling Moore blowing up receivers over the middle of the field. He looked like he was hearing footsteps all day and got benched because of it.

Eagles | DeSean Jackson shying from contact
Mon, 28 Nov 2011 05:59:21 -0800

Philadelphia Eagles WR DeSean Jackson has been shying away from contact more and more. On the first touchdown that Jackson dropped in Week 12, he visibly flinched when he sensed New England Patriots LB Tracy White bearing down on him. It is a continuing issue. When asked if he thinks about his health on the field, Jackson said, "Always. You've got to keep your head on a swivel."

0 Comments | Share: Tweet! Share on Facebook | Source: Philadelphia Daily News - Rich Hofmann

Read more: NFL News and Rumors - Hot off the Wire Fantasy Football News



He just put a size 10 bullseye on his butt.

 

[patfanken]

Back up QB getting additional reps with the starters vs. an NFL defense....yawn at the outrage

Vince Young is NOT your usual back up QB. As a starter he's well over .500, and has taken his team twice to the playoffs. There are over a dozen teams that could add Young tomorrow and improve their QB situation.

I'm not outraged by Reid going for the score on that last drive, it was taking all the TOs. That was irritating, but it was the useless and dangerous onside kick at the end that sparked the outrage.
2) Philly showed that speed can burn our makeshift DB warriors

its 2011 in the NFL and there are open receivers. I am SHOCKED

3) Why not eliminate stats from 4 drives for every team every game?

My point is that the 400 passing yds is a very inflated figure. Especially if you consider the approximate 120 yds they got AFTER the Pats last TD. No one would be taking about the "suspect" Pats D if the Eagles had thrown for, say, 300 yds. CONTEXT does matter when you are evaluating.

4) Ninko will be a major factor when the Pats climb the holy mountain and battle Tesus at Mile High. Hope Spikes is available for that game as well
.
That game will be a rout, believe me. Tebow isn't going to rush against the Pats. They will be prepared for it. And Ninko has become a major factor in EVERY game the Pats play

5) Pats D controls the running output every game, despite being a react D. Mayo is a big part of that.

Amen to that. Another surprising outcome given all the injuries to Spikes and Mayo

6) Interesting how the Pats combatted the intense 1st qtr pass rush by going 5 wide with a no huddle. Tom Brady was tough as nails yesterday. Took a beating early, bulldozed when needed, scampered when available, and stayed mentally sharp throughout. IMO, one of his best efforts EVER.

That's an interest take, borg. It was my impression that after the frist quarter, the Pats OL controlled the Eagle rush pretty well in all formations

7) Going 5 wide settled the line down. Did Cannon get any reps?

Not that I saw, but I read today where he did get in at RT

8) BJGE had burst, but was being stopped on the first contact....as were all the RBs

I thought that by and large it wasn't a great day for the OL in creating holes for the RBs. The production was decent, around 120 yds, but to the eyes, it wasn't like it was against some of the other teams

9) It is that time of year when teams must rely on the depth of their roster and the resourcefulness of their front office. Comparing NE vs Philly.....BB wins the roster challenge

great point. No one does more with less than BB. The Pats are 8-3 playing a secondary made up of complete no names, most of whom weren't on the roster when the season started. That is an AMAZING accomplishment. It SHOULD be a big story, but because its the Patriots its "ho hum business as usual" I'm surprised some reporter didn't do a story on the production of the Pats secondary vs the high cost of the Eagle's I doubt that the starting Pats secondary make as much COMBINED for the year, as Nandi's WEEKLY check

10) a....a confident Sanchez wins games. He gutted out his early miscues and got it done

The kid is tough. You have to give that to him, but he just isn't a good thrower, and doesn't seem like he's ever going to be one. He needs a great team to advance, and the Jets aren't one.

......c.....Edelman....5'10" 198lbs...4.45 40yd dash.....the kid is a baller, a great tackler and I love that they blitzed him.....a floating S ?? It's fun to watch

Lots of fun...and intriguing I think he's a better than average punt returner. I think he'd be an excellent slot guy, and it looks like he'd also be a decent DB. I'd certainly rather have him out there than Sergio Brown.

......d.....Desean Jackson???? If his head was screwed on better, this could have been a different game

Not different, just a little closer

......e...The Ocho no show deserves ALL the critique. Highest paid WR on the roster, former NFL star. Spent draft pick. Belichick needs to reexamine his evaluation process that lead to this major mistake. For now, moving on....but over the offseason, BB needs an intervention regarding his WR evaluations over the past few years.

Lets wait til the end of the season before we evaluate this trade. Who knows, if he comes up big in the playoffs, then it will be well worth it.

......f....McCoy and Forte....wow....could they put up extreme numbers as an every down Patriot.

For the Patriots OR any other team they'd play for. Those guys are just flat out GOOD. I was very surprised that he didn't get more of a chance to make plays. Maybe its a good sign for the pass defense that they essentially controlled him in the passing game. I saw one particular play where Edelman had great coverage on him

 

[Patspsycho]

Amen to that. He is the new Reche Caldwell. Very unfairly put down. Is he Mayo? No. But he does some things quite well, makes the occasional spectacular speed play and has been pretty damn good value for a UDFA.

Shmess, you know I don't usually beat up players, but the Guyton era is OVER.....and well it should be.

I applaud Guyton's efforts in having a 4 year Career coming in as an UDFA. I also believe that his contribution as a special teamer and backup LB has been worth the investment. HOWEVER.....we all know that Guyton's main value is to be the team's coverage LB in sub packages. He has the speed and quickness to excel at the position. Yet after 4 years of development, he JUST hasn't progressed.

Its one thing to have speed, its another to have "football speed". I've come to the conclusion (and I think so have the Pats) that Gary cannot translate his natural speed on to the field. Call it what you want, instincts, football intelligence, or whatever, Gary doesn't seem to have any. Add that to the fact he is a liability in the run game, not a good tackler, and hasn't shown up much on special teams, and you wind up with the inevitable conclusion that the Pats have to move on from Gary Guyton

Fletcher from what I have seen in his brief shots on the field HAS that instinct, so while he doesn't have the speed of Guyton, he is more likely to be around the ball when its thrown in his area. Tarpanian is another guy I think the Pats are looking at for that sub-coverage LB. Unfortunately it won't be until next year before we can make any evaluation on him.

First and foremost, Guyton shies away from contact. He does not relish contact and as a linebacker that's a huge deficient to have as a knock on your resume. He almost begs to be taken out of the play and is easily defeated by a trap block, shows an unwillingness to shed his blocker and make the play. In the Giants game, he was easily taken out by the kick out block on that crucial RB touchdown that put the Giants up. Also on last week's interception, while many of you saw Love's fantastic blowup block, there was Guyton running alongside Arrington and doing nothing other than having the best seat in the house on the play.

He does have football smarts, speed, and a nose for the play (when he choses to), but his mental toughness is inconsistent, sometimes he's there, sometimes he's not, and I have rarely seen him put in 100%. His tacking technique is poor and his attitude towards tackling is even worse.

That being said, he will not be on the team next year. Tarp is going to take his place.

 

[shmessy]

There were 10 incompletions; that doesn't mean Brady misfired on the passes.

Precisely.

Obviously, Kontradiction sees the Tiquan Underwood pass attempt as Brady's "misfire".

We all saw Gronk and Welker let a couple go right through their hands also.

 

[doesntmatter1]

With regard to Guyton, I see no indication that White has passed him on the depth chart or that Belichick wouldn't want him back, depending on price. He is an inexpensive backup player (yes, a JAG) who can start if needed.

According to Mike Reiss, Gary Guyton played 11 of 73 snaps while Tracy White played 64 of 73. And he didn't play at all in the jets game. To me its a night and day difference. The reason no one else can tell is because white and guyton physically look alike on the field and their numbers are close, but if you have the trained eyes of a guyton hater like me he actually glows when he is on the field lol.

Also to supafly, I love your posts but the reason that Guyton has more impact plays than mayo is because he is targeted far more often and eventually he makes a play. It is the same thing as a db with a lot tackles. The intermediate middle portion of our field is attacked relentlessly when he is playing zone.

I too hate that we get criticized for running up the score when losing teams do the exact same thing. You would think they would stop after anquan boldin broke his face in a meaningless game against the jets a few years back.

 

[supafly]

Also to supafly, I love your posts but the reason that Guyton has more impact plays than mayo is because he is targeted far more often and eventually he makes a play. It is the same thing as a db with a lot tackles. The intermediate middle portion of our field is attacked relentlessly when he is playing zone.

Thanks doesntmatter1, that's much appreciated.

While I think you are certainly making a fair and valid point and I agree with you on some level, just to put it into perspective..

Gary Guyton had more passes defended last year than Kyle Arrington (6 to 5), and we can all certainly assume that Arrington was targeted a lot more times than Guyton was!!

 

[Sciz]

Guyton was a good player last year. Unfortunately, he seems to have regressed, to the point where he has lost snaps to Tarpinian and White. Not a good sign, and I definitely don't see him back next season.

 

[supafly]

Guyton was a good player last year. Unfortunately, he seems to have regressed, to the point where he has lost snaps to Tarpinian and White. Not a good sign, and I definitely don't see him back next season.

I tend to agree with you, on all points. I personally do not think Guyton is a very good player---overall. But with that statement, also comes the other side of the coin that he has done his job in some aspects, and even done it well at times. I would also believe like you, that Belichick would probably like to see someone else without such obvious flaws in certain areas step up and replace Guyton.

As much as I really do not care for his football skills overall, I found it pertinent to take a deeper look into his 4 year UDFA career here, and was very pleasantly surprised at finding that he has played well to his strengths. The problem seems that he also has many flaws.

I still don't 100% agree with his being the constant whipping boy here, but we all have our opinions, so I am simply stating mine. I also hope that someone else will step up and have a better skillset, as a whole; but in the meantime, I am not going to assume (like so many others) that he has lost his job to Tracy White...at least not for a couple more weeks.

One of the greatest things about this forum is that we all have our own opinions on which players are ok, which are good, which players we don't like etc...and that is what usually leads to such interesting discussions and better overall knowledge about the situation.

 

[grandpajim]

I'm not gonna bother making a new thread for it so i'll hijack yours.


Does NE have the best no huddle in the NFL ?

Every time we go to it the opposing defense is in trouble. They either don't get lined up properly,can't get guys off the field,matchups became a far bigger problem and the high pace just gasses every D. The philly pass rush became extinct in the no huddle. Really liking that we are executing well in the no huddle and i think this is a good sign for the playoffs.

I know I'm a little slow on the uptake than many on this board but a point someone else recently brought up really struck me as insightful was our no huddly isn't to hurry up the offence like the run-n-gun since Brady ususlly takes most of the clock time, but rather using Bradys great defense evaluating skills to "lock in" a miss-match with the defensive personnel by keeping them on the field, unable to subsitute.

 

[supafly]

I know I'm a little slow on the uptake than many on this board but a point someone else recently brought up really struck me as insightful was our no huddly isn't to hurry up the offence like the run-n-gun since Brady ususlly takes most of the clock time, but rather using Bradys great defense evaluating skills to "lock in" a miss-match with the defensive personnel by keeping them on the field, unable to subsitute.

That's absolutely what it's about 100%, gpajim.

By going into no-huddle, we can keep the defensive personnel from not being able to switch their players up, and that is what leads to the mis-matches that you speak of.

It's single handedly the greatest benefit of running the no-huddle, and also the #1 reason why they do it.

Some other added benefits which are not necessarily the reasons why they run it are catching the defense with too many men on the field, and also tiring the defenders out; but the #1 main reason it's used is to create a mis-match in the personnel that the defense has out there.