End of an era at Penn State.

[BradyFTW!]

If he knew he was raping children and helped to hide the fact, then he is an accessory. The question is did he have direct knowledge or just heard a rumor.

As PatsfaninPhilly points out, there are inconsistencies in his testimony and others. That means also he might have purgered himself. That might mean that JoePa knew a lot more than he is letting on. Granted proving that is another thing.

Someone telling you what they saw with their own two eyes is not a RUMOR. Are you kidding? And let's not forget that Sandusky retired in 1999. At age 55. Why? This was after the 1998 allegations. Hmmmmm, I wonder why that would be......

There is a lot more to this story.

There may well be more to the story, and if there is, then it may turn out that Paterno acted illegally on those grounds. But not calling the police over a crime that someone told you they saw is not a criminal offense. Never has been, and I sincerely hope that it never will be, because that would be ridiculous.

Moral failing and criminal offense are not synonymous terms. Paterno absolutely should have done more, and he deserves every bit of the fallout that's occurring right now, but that does not, in of itself, make him a criminal. Anyone on this thread who would like to see the law rewritten to make it a crime, I would suggest that you step back for a minute and think about what the implications of that would be. Have you ever had indirect knowledge of a crime that may or may not have occurred, and chosen not to report it to the police? Then apparently you're a criminal too.

 

[DarrylS]

There may well be more to the story, and if there is, then it may turn out that Paterno acted illegally on those grounds. But not calling the police over a crime that someone told you they saw is not a criminal offense. Never has been, and I sincerely hope that it never will be, because that would be ridiculous.

Moral failing and criminal offense are not synonymous terms. Paterno should have done more, but he was not legally obligated to report what he was told to the police.

It is a criminal offense, it is a misdemeanor, not to report a suspected case of child abuse in Pennsylvania and just about every state in the nation.

If a subordinate comes to you and suspects child abuse, you should tell him of the obligation to report and then report it yourself.

Everyone in the Penn State chain of command had the legal obligation to report these allegations.. it is always better to err on the side of good judgement, than to allow this crap to happen to children.

049 Pa. Code § 42.42. Suspected child abuse—mandated reporting requirements.

(b) Staff members of public or private agencies, institutions and facilities. Licensees who are staff members of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, and who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse. Upon notification by the licensee, the person in charge or the designated agent shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with subsections (a), (c) and (d).

 

[Deus Irae]

It is a criminal offense, it is a misdemeanor, not to report a suspected case of child abuse in Pennsylvania and just about every state in the nation.

If a subordinate comes to you and suspects child abuse, you should tell him of the obligation to report and then report it yourself.

Everyone in the Penn State chain of command had the legal obligation to report these allegations.. it is always better to err on the side of good judgement, than to allow this crap to happen to children.

049 Pa. Code §*42.42.*Suspected child abuse—mandated reporting requirements.

The police have already said that Paterno is not criminally liable for any failure to report, because he followed the law.


The truth of the matter is that nothing that's publicly known has shown Paterno in any kind of definite wrong. He's being hung out to dry on the basis of a mythical "moral duty" to report.

 

[BradyFTW!]

A lot of EGO is involved. The ADMINISTRATION is the most at fault for not BANNING him completely.


Joe SHOULD have gone to the authorities... so shouldn't the others that I mentioned[AD, VP,P Janitors]. Joe PHUCKED up, but at least he had the decency to REPORT to some SUPERIOR channel [ the Janitors did so, but the Scumbag administration did NOTHING]. The Cops should HAVE been #1, but everything looks BEAUTIFUL in hindsight. Joe should have gone to the Cops. I WOULD have.

Without in any way supporting what Paterno did (I think he's a scumbag), I can attest firsthand to the fact that it's very difficult to turn in a good friend. It's obviously what Joe should have done, and for someone who hasn't been in a situation anything like that, I can see how it would seem like the easiest choice in the world. But it isn't, especially when you aren't certain that your friend is guilty.

 

[BradyFTW!]

It is a criminal offense, it is a misdemeanor, not to report a suspected case of child abuse in Pennsylvania and just about every state in the nation.

If a subordinate comes to you and suspects child abuse, you should tell him of the obligation to report and then report it yourself.

Everyone in the Penn State chain of command had the legal obligation to report these allegations.. it is always better to err on the side of good judgement, than to allow this crap to happen to children.

049 Pa. Code §*42.42.*Suspected child abuse—mandated reporting requirements.

The text that you quoted doesn't say what you seem to think it says. Bolded for emphasis:

(b) Staff members of public or private agencies, institutions and facilities. Licensees who are staff members of a medical or other public or private institution, school, facility or agency, and who, in the course of their employment, occupation or practice of their profession, come into contact with children shall immediately notify the person in charge of the institution, school facility or agency or the designated agent of the person in charge when they have reasonable cause to suspect on the basis of their professional or other training or experience, that a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity is a victim of child abuse. Upon notification by the licensee, the person in charge or the designated agent shall assume the responsibility and have the legal obligation to report or cause a report to be made in accordance with subsections (a), (c) and (d).

By escalating the report up the chain, Paterno fulfilled this particular obligation.

 

[DarrylS]

The police have already said that Paterno is not criminally liable for any failure to report, because he followed the law.

The Campus Police???

Without regard the statute is clear, he had the responsibility to report this to the appropriate authorities....

His silence perpetuated the abuse.. he has a lot of responsibility for what happened in Happy Valley.

 

[DarrylS]

The text that you quoted doesn't say what you seem to think it says.

Sure it does worked in Child Welfare systems for about 30 years, this is boilerplate across the country..

If you suspect child abuse you have the responsibility to report it.. his silence allowed more children to become victimized.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Sure it does worked in Child Welfare systems for about 30 years, this is boilerplate across the country..

If you suspect child abuse you have the responsibility to report it.. his silence allowed more children to become victimized.

He did report it. That's the point. The very text that you supplied made it clear that his obligation was to report what he suspected to his superiors.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

I'm a huge Patriots fan, but also a PSU alum, staff member and season ticket holder. Two major scandals involving the two programs I love the most in 5 years. This is just depressing. Please pray first and foremost for the victims of these crimes. My mind keeps going back and forth between anger, disgust to betrayal. I want to believe that JoePa did the right thing, but I don't know if I can do so until all of the facts come out. And even then I think I will have a hard time doing so. Remeber that it was not to long ago that BB was vilified by the media for the whole SpyGate mess.

I think what the students did last night was stupid. They had every right to protest, but it should have never turned destructive. That paints all students and others in the PSU community in a negative light.

It's going to take a long time to heal from this, and I hope that PSU can at some point recover from this tragedy.

To equate Spygate to Child Rape is so outrageous I am lost for words.

 

[DarrylS]

He did report it. That's the point.

He reported these activities every time it happened, and everytime he was made aware of Sandusky's actions??? And no one ever did anything about it??

You report child abuse not to relieve your legal culpability, but to protect children.. he allowed Sandusky to continue on staff even though he knew of several incidents.. he did not protect the children entrusted to Penn State.

The lawyers are going to have a field day with all of this.. he is liable for his inactions and complicity for allowing Sandusky to remain on staff.

He could have fired Sandusky, but chose to keep him on board and in the presence of children..

 

[DarrylS]

He did report it. That's the point. The very text that you supplied made it clear that his obligation was to report what he suspected to his superiors.

You do not report to reduce your liability, you report it to protect children.. he did not do that as he allowed Sandusky to keep up his pedophilia in the Penn State Football Facilities..

He should have fired Sandusky in 1998 at the time of the first offense.. and then been a champion for the victims by making sure it was followed up by the legal system.

 

[BradyFTW!]

He reported these activities every time it happened, and everytime he was made aware of Sandusky's actions??? And no one ever did anything about it??

You report child abuse not to relieve your legal culpability, but to protect children.. he allowed Sandusky to continue on staff even though he knew of several incidents.. he did not protect the children entrusted to Penn State.

The lawyers are going to have a field day with all of this.. he is liable for his inactions and complicity for allowing Sandusky to remain on staff.

He could have fired Sandusky, but chose to keep him on board and in the presence of children..

You just shifted the debate pretty dramatically, from "he's legally culpable" (he's not) to "he's morally culpable" (you'll get no disagreement from me there). Based on the information that we currently have, he did exactly what was required of him to fulfill his legal obligations and nothing more.

There are a whole lot of things that are wrong but are not crimes, and this is one of them.

 

[Deus Irae]

The Campus Police???

Without regard the statute is clear, he had the responsibility to report this to the appropriate authorities....

His silence perpetuated the abuse.. he has a lot of responsibility for what happened in Happy Valley.

State police commissioner... Paterno is not on the hook for a failure to report.

 

[DarrylS]

You just shifted the debate pretty dramatically, from "he's legally culpable" (he's not) to "he's morally culpable" (you'll get no disagreement from me there). Based on the information that we currently have, he did exactly what was required of him to fulfill his legal obligations and nothing more.

And nothing more, he allowed Sandusky to be on staff and in the presence of chidlren even though he was aware of his child rape proclivity...

Joe Paterno allowed this to happen, and did not remove Sandusky..

 

[grux]

I don't get it. How can the "trustees" name Tom Bradley the interm head coach? He has been at Penn State since the 70's. Are you telling me he had no idea that there was children were getting abused? The "trustees" should clean house and hire all new coaches. Football should be the last thing on your mind if you are in charge at Penn State.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You do not report to reduce your liability, you report it to protect children.. he did not do that as he allowed Sandusky to keep up his pedophilia in the Penn State Football Facilities..

He should have fired Sandusky in 1998 at the time of the first offense.. and then been a champion for the victims by making sure it was followed up by the legal system.

Again, I agree with everything that you wrote, which is why I think that he is a scumbag. None of that makes him a criminal, though.

And nothing more, he allowed Sandusky to be on staff and in the presence of chidlren even though he was aware of his child rape proclivity...

Joe Paterno allowed this to happen, and did not remove Sandusky..

Again, you're arguing a point that literally nobody is disputing.

 

[BradyManny]

He did report it. That's the point. The very text that you supplied made it clear that his obligation was to report what he suspected to his superiors.

First of all, it's well-established that Paterno has no superiors at PSU.

Second of all, he witnessed a crime. A serious crime that can land someone in prison for life. He has a responsibility to report it alright, to the authorities. Not to a coworker.

If you saw someone at work in the act of murdering another person, for instance, would your first action be to a) call the police b) discuss your next move with a colleague, and never follow-up.

Anyone who didn't go directly to the police upon seeing or learning the fact that this guy was RAPING children is just downright disgusting.

I don't know if that's illegal or not - but I really think it should be. Not reporting a crime as despicable as child rape to the authorities really oughta be a crime itself.

 

[Deus Irae]

First of all, it's well-established that Paterno has no superiors at PSU.

Second of all, he witnessed a crime. A serious crime that can land someone in prison for life. He has a responsibility to report it alright, to the authorities. Not to a coworker.

If you saw someone at work in the act of murdering another person, would your first action be to a) call the police b) discuss your next move with a colleague, and never follow-up.

Come on, be serious here. Anyone who didn't go directly to the police upon seeing or learning the fact that this guy was RAPING children is just downright disgusting.

I don't know if that's illegal or not - but I really think it should be. Not reporting a crime as despicable as child rape to the authorities really oughta be a crime itself.

To repeat: According to the police's public position, Paterno is not a target of the criminal investigation because he fulfilled his legal responsibility with regards to reporting the situation.

Now, it's possible that the police are lying, and it's possible that new information will change the currently proclaimed status quo but, as of now, the public position of the police investigating this is that Paterno has done nothing legally wrong.

 

[BradyFTW!]

First of all, it's well-established that Paterno has no superiors at PSU.

Sure he did. If you don't believe me on that, believe the police who are involved in the case.

Second of all, he witnessed a crime. A serious crime that can land someone in prison for life. He has a responsibility to report it alright, to the authorities. Not to a coworker.

Did he? All that I've heard is that he was informed by someone else that they had witnessed a crime. Upon learning that, he did he was legally obligated to do and nothing more. I agree, he should have done more. A whole lot more. But he wasn't legally required to.

If you saw someone at work in the act of murdering another person, for instance, would your first action be to a) call the police b) discuss your next move with a colleague, and never follow-up.

If one of my colleagues told me that he had seen one of our other colleagues murder someone, then I would do whatever I was legally obligated to do in that case, and I would also strongly encourage the alleged witness to go to the police. If/when the police questioned me, I would recount this conversation and any future conversations to the best of my memory.

Regardless, it's irrelevant what I would do, since I've already said at least a half-dozen times that I agree that Paterno's a scumbag for not doing more. That's not in question. What's in question is whether or not he's a criminal for it (he isn't).

Anyone who didn't go directly to the police upon seeing or learning the fact that this guy was RAPING children is just downright disgusting.

I don't know if that's illegal or not - but I really think it should be. Not reporting a crime as despicable as child rape to the authorities really oughta be a crime itself.

So you would you be okay with a law stating that, if you have any suspicion that a felony has occurred, regardless of whether or not you actually witnessed it, you are legally required to report it to the police? Because that has law of unintended consequences written all over it.

 

[Bella*chick]

Everyone knows that Paterno did the absolute barest minimum legally required. He's not a target for investigation (yet).

Just because he's not being criminally charged with anything doesn't mean he gets to keep his job, add to his legacy, and go out on his own terms. He himself admits he wishes he had done more. This is an absolutely horrifying mess that his beloved Penn State football program is in. People are fired for less every day.